Answered 4K Amp?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by TheDarkKnight01, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    I need some advice please.

    Currently have a Pioneer Amp with a 5.1 setup. All works amazingly well for what I had setup which was a Plasma Panasonic for years, got a Hisense a couple of months back but now looking to get an OLED.

    With that in mind I will need to upgrade my Amp as I don't believe it is intended for 4K.

    I wouldn't need to purchase speakers or sub as I have those already, can anybody recommend an Amp that would play 4K that is good whilst being on the cheap side (forking out for an OLED means the budget for the amp will be small).

    Audio knowledge isn't my strong point so if there is any further info you need from me to advise on an Amp please ask.

    The main use is for Movies, TV and Gaming.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Best Answer:
    Post #18 by Rambles, Jun 9, 2019 (2 points)
  3. dante01

    dante01
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    What 4K UHD sources will you be wanting to use? AV receivers don't play video and simply pass it through from sources connected to the AVR.

    Most UHD disc players include 2 HDMI outputs. You could still continue to use an older non UHD HDCP 2.2 compliant HDMI equipped AV receiver by connecting one of the player's HDMI outputs directly to a UHD HDCP 2.2 compliant TV or display while using the player's second HDMI output to simultaneously convey HD audio directly to the older AV receiver?

    If still wanting to upgrade your AVR, would you also be interested in Atmos? Most AV receivers now also include Atmos and DTS:X decoding, but only the 7 channel models.

    You suggest that your budget for this would be small, but could you state how much you'd have at your disposal to purchase a new AVR with?
     
  4. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    Right now I would be looking at 4K Discs, via the Xbox One X and gaming again on the Xbox One X, I haven't received the console yet but I presume that this only has the 1 HDMI output? Thus wouldn't be able to work with my Pioneer HTP-072 AV Receiver, for its full intended use of 4K?

    I only need 5.1 for now so if the Atmos is only available on 7.1 then that is not going to be a possibility. To be honest I am only looking for a 5.1 setup as I have now, just with the added feature of it allowing me to use it for 4K content, which I believed my current Pioneer wasn't able to? Or am I mistaken?

    Regarding the budget, as I would be purchasing an OLED TV, the Xbox One X, I would say around the £200 mark. Is it possible to get a 4K receiver with that budget?
     
  5. dante01

    dante01
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    Your budget is rather low and limits the choices available to you.

    The most obvious choice would be the Denon AVRX550BT which you can get for just over £200, but I'd tend to suggest looking at slightly more expensive receivers in order to get onboard room EQ correction. You'll not get any form of room EQ correction with the AVRX550BT:
    Denon AVRX550BT (Black)

    I'd suggest the Yamaha RXV485 as being a better 5.1 option due to its inclusion of room EQ correction. This would cost you about £260:
    Yamaha RXV485 (Black)
     
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  6. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    Like I say, my knowledge on audio is limited compared to the TV side of things, what is EQ correction?
     
  7. dante01

    dante01
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    Many AV receivers now include auto calibration that uses a mic attached to the AVR to measure levels and distances and the receiver then sets them correctly relative to your listening position. Most manufacturers also include some form of room EQ correction that filters the audio in order to account for any (some) issues or anomalies with the room's acoustics and how it effects the audio in that room. The filtering basically compares the measurements it takes to a desired target and then uses that target to assess where to alter the signal in order to account for the differences and correct the EQ.

    You may find this of interest:
    Room Correction Revisited
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  8. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    To be honest, right now that isn't of massive importance.

    I was able to adjust speaker distance level on my current AV Receiver which has done the job.

    Is there nothing less than £200 that you would recommend?

    Would the Yamaha HTR2071 be suitable for 4K?
     
  9. dante01

    dante01
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    You cannot correct room EQ manually. THe room EQ correction isn't the speaker lebelling or the distance aspect of the calibration.

    There are a few receivers available for less than £200, but I'd not want to suggest you buy one.

    There's the Denon AVRX250BT for example that will set you back just £179, but as was the case with the X550BT this receiver lacks any form of room EQ correction.

    Denon AVRX250BT (Black)

    This receiver would also lack the additional sub pre out and USB input associated with the X550BT and cannot passthrough or handle Dolby Vision or HLG HDR. The X250BT also has no auto calibration of any description so cannot even level the speakers itself. It cannot use Denon's iOS and Android app either.

    Denon AVR-X550BT vs Denon AVR-X250BT Review (2019) - Compare Specs | ZKelectronics
     
  10. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    But would any of that even be beneficial to me?

    All I want it for is to pass through my 4K content and be able to use my current 5.1 speakers (I only have the 1 sub and don't need the additional sub anyway), nor the USB, that and the iOS/Andorid apps aren't of any use to me as I don't use any apps now?

    With that in mind is there any point me paying extra for those options when you consider tbe Yamaha? Or will the Yamaha not even do what I'm after?
     
  11. dante01

    dante01
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    I'd consider the Yamaha RXV485 has being the more preferable option based upon its inclusion of auto calibration and YPAO room EQ correction. It is also fully 4K 50/60p 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 compliant and can passthrough HDR10, Dolby Vision and HLG HDR.

    RX-V485 - Overview - Yamaha - Other European Countries
     
  12. dante01

    dante01
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    I think it would be remiss of me to not also ask what speakers you have and intend using with this receiver? Is the subwoofer active with its own onboard amplification and power suply or a passive model? Modern AV receivers don't facilitate passive subs and you'd need to use an active subwoofer in conjunction with a modern day AV receiver.
     
  13. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    That's what I am trying to say though.. With what I am after do I even need the additional things that is offering?

    I will be using:

    OLED TV
    Xbox One X
    Some SD / HD
    Movies, Gaming, TV

    All I am after is for the AV Receiver to display 4K content whilst keeping my current 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer.

    What I want to know is whether the Yamaha HTR2071 will allow me to do so?
     
  14. dante01

    dante01
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    I'm not sure why you are asking here if not willing to accept the advice given? Just go down to Richer Sounds and ask for the cheapest 5.1 AV receiver they sell. I've already explained why I'd suggest the receiver I've suggested. The fact it has other abilities is neither here nor there. Any receiver you buy is going to include something you don't strictly speaking need. I would however suggest buying one that does include room EQ correction because this will benefit the way the audio sounds compared to an AV receiver that lacks this.

    The HTR2071 has no auto calibration or room EQ correction and doesn't support Dolby Vision or HLG HDR.
     
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  15. gibbsy

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    @dante01 has made some very valid points which you seem happy to dismiss. Depending on what OLED you go for they may very well be able to show 4K in Dolby Vision and HDR10+, which are considered to be the best. Entry level receivers, although being able to pass through 4K content may not be able to do so with either DV or HDR10+. As a result your TV will not be able to show colours at this level.

    If TV colour quality is going to be your priority then you could always connect the PS4 direct to the TV via HDMI and thus get the best colour support and connect the PS4 to the receiver via optical digital. The down side is that you will just have SD audio with your current receiver, although reading between the lines audio is not your main priority.
     
  16. series1boy

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    If you don’t want Atmos, then there is this. It passes through hdr format including DV and only £19 over your budget:
    Denon AVRX550BT (Black)

    Dolby Vision, HDR and HLG compatible
    With a total of five HDMI inputs, the AVR-X550BT has your system covered. Three of the inputs are compatible with HDCP2.2 protection and advanced formats, including Dolby Vision, HDR and HLG (Hybrid Log-Gamma). This means you get full compatibility with the latest UHD Blu-ray players and HDR TVs.
     
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  17. Davekale86

    Davekale86
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    I'm sure someone on here might have a good AVR for around 200 check the classifieds looking at the post I'd probably go for the yamaha as it has everything your asking for within your budget
     
  18. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    I'm not dismissing your advice @dante01 you made some great points and I appreciate that. I just cannot gather together £280 odd when my budget is £200 for the receiver, max.

    All I wanted to guage is whether that is even a possibility.

    Thank you everyone else as well as it has made me reconsider what I need to be buying.

    If it helps, the TV I would be looking at is either the LG B/C7 or B/C8, or the Phillips 55" POS9002.

    So if I understand it correctly, the AV Receiver would need to support HDR as I would be using an Xbox One X which will have games in HDR.

    Because money is tight on the Receiver side of things (what with there being absoultely nothing wrong with the one I've got, just needing it upgraded) hence why I am looking to spend the least amount possible whilst getting everything that I need.

    I also read through the EQ correction link dante posted but for what I am using this for I am not sure whether I need that. Don't get me wrong, be great to have that, but as you pointed out this costs extra, which I haven't got so if I can find a receiver which does everything I need within my budget, then that is what I am looking for.

    Alternatively if you are saying I shouldn't be buying one without as it's not going to work for what I need then obviously I will hold off and try and save for a more expensive one.

    The AV Receivers are a minefield to me and I honestly don't know where to start to buy the one I need for what I'm looking to setup (LG/Phillips OLED, Xbox One X (Gaming), Movies (UHD Discs, Streaming), TV (both SD content and HD), Sports).
     
  19. Rambles

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    Best Answer
    You might find that connecting the devices to the TV and then passing the audio through the TV would be better than buying a £200 4K amp, you can carry on using the AVR you have now then. Or, you can use a separate audio cable from the source to the amp, and connect the HDMi to the TV for the video.
     
  20. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    So I could connect the Xbox, PS4, my laptop (at times) to the HDMI ports on the TV itself, then have one HDMI going from my TV into the Amp to pass the audio through?

    I want to continue using my 5 speakers and sub setup. If the source content is 4K, would that pass that sound through still?
     
  21. jwsg

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    This would only pass basic 5.1 sound from TV to amp. This is better than nothing and makes sense if it means you can keep your amp till you get enough budget to get a new Denon for example.

    Having 4k/HDR passthrough doesnt make the amp any more expensive - it just needs a model from the last year or so.

    You have aspirations to use UHD disk - this audio would be compromised by using the TV-Amp link but most UHD players have two HDMI so you can split the audio and video links.

    But if you are thinking OLED then you should factor in audio into your budget. I went 4K last year but luckily my Denon had a HDR upgrade released but I still had to think about 4K sources - so that the complete system makes sense.
     
  22. dante01

    dante01
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    You'd be able to passthrough 5.1 SD audio formats such as Dolby Digital or DTS and 2 channel PCM sources. You'd not however be able to passthrough HD formats such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. By "passing through" i mean inputting the audio into the TV via HDMI from a source and then utputting to an AV receiver via the TV's optical audio output. Newer receivers also have something yrrmed ARC that can also be used, but both the TV and the AV receiver would need to be ARC enabled. There's an even newer variant ofARC called eARC (enhanced ARC) that does allow the formats otherwise not able to be passed through to be passed through, but you'd only get eARC onboard more recent AV receivers and TVs and both would need to be eARC compliant in order to use eARC.

    What model is your current Pioneer receiver?

    If you can do without the room EQ correction then I'd still suggest you scrimp together another £20 and buy the more expensive Denon X550BT in order to gain the ability to passthrough Dolby Vision and HLG HDR metadata.
    Denon AVRX550BT (Black)


    If you were to go with the cheaper X250BT or the Yamaha HTR2071 then you'd be limited ro static HDR10 HDR. This means that video including Dolby Vision HDR would be represented on your TV as HDR10.

    Home
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  23. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    Ah I see. It makes sense for me to get the AV Receiver as I do love the ease of being able to easily switch between everything with a touch of a button (I have an all in one remote configured with it).

    The current AV Receiver I have is the Pioneer HTP-072.

    Also only just seen your post regarding my speakers. I have a central Pioneer speaker with 4 smaller ones for front right, front left, rear right and rear left. Regarding the sub, this is connected to the AV Receiver? I am not sure whether it is passive or active.
     
  24. gibbsy

    gibbsy
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    Does it have it's own power supply. If yes, it's powered. If no then it's passive.
     
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  25. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    In that case, it's passive.
     
  26. gibbsy

    gibbsy
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    OK. You would also need a new sub unless someone knows of a work around. Modern receivers need to be connected to a powered sub via LFE.
     
  27. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    Ah this is such a headache, just adds more things to it that I need to consider.

    Unless I sell my current TV and Surround Sound (including speakers), I haven't even had the TV 5 months (Hisense H50A6250UK) so I imagine I will get a good return on that if I decide to sell.

    Then just buy the OLED TV and a new Surround System that has everything that's needed (Receiver, Speakers and Sub), as I'm worried I could do all this and then it not be working correctly.
     
  28. gibbsy

    gibbsy
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  29. gibbsy

    gibbsy
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    The manual or brochure doesn't state the HDCP figure.
     
  30. TheDarkKnight01

    TheDarkKnight01
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    Yeah that's my one. I didn't think it could pass 4K through from checking before but that would be good if it can.
     
  31. dante01

    dante01
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    I believe the AV receiver included is the Pioneer VSX-324 which I also believe predates HDMI version 2.0 and will therefore only include HDMI version 1.4 and be HDCP 1.4 compliant. It is stated by Pioneer that this receiver can passthrough 4K UHD, but like many late HDMI 1.4 receivers that also include this ability it is limited to 4K video with a frame rate less than 30Hz and isn't HDCP 2.2 compliant. Almost all commercial UHD video will be protected by HDCP 2.2. Games aren't and do not use HDCP protection, but will require frame rates higher than 30Hz.
     

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