480i/p 60hz for PAL PS3 in download?

KyoDash · Apr 14, 2007

Today, while at work someone told me that his friend had downloaded an update via his PS3 which gave him more resolution options in the display menu. Apparently they were playing Virtua Fighter 5 and Ridge Racer 7 in 480i 60hz mode on a PAL PS3.

Now this is the first I have heard of this, and am doubtfull of this guy's story as most UK games have been encoded to only work in 50hz SD resolutions. So I was wondering if anyone here had downloaded a system update in the last 3 days which enabled this feature, and if it works with RR7 and other botched 50hz PS3 games?

Sadly I don't have a PS3 due to the lack of a 60hz option, and considering importing a US machine.

markmitt · Apr 14, 2007

60 Hz in SD games has been around for quite a while I think you'll find. All 60 Hz is, is where predominantly Foreign (ie. US, Japanese) developers write code for thir own TV system (NTSC). They put in the 60Hz mode so that they do not have to specifically write code for optimal PAL performance.

This is where the old scenario of NTSC vs PAL came from, and where a lot of people assumed (incorrectly I might add), that an NTSC signal was better. When coded correctly PAL offered a higher resolution than its NTSC counterpart whilst running at the same speed.

KyoDash · Apr 14, 2007

60hz in SD games isn't available in the UK PAL PS3 at the mo though. Also games might run at the same speed in 50hz if optimized but when running in 60hz the difference in smoothness is noticable. The extra 10 frames a second makes the display less flickery and the framerate smoother, though the resolution is slightly less. Most gamers agree that 60hz is better than 50hz, and ALL games for consoles and PC's are developed natively at 60hz.

It's not about NTSC as you can have PAL colour and 60hz refresh rate (PAL60) or pure RGB at 60hz, not affected by the NTSC colour system.

60hz is the universal standard monitor refresh rate, regardless of colour system and resolution. It's why the 360 and PS3, also PC's out put HD resolutions all at 60hz.

markmitt · Apr 14, 2007

KyoDash said:
60hz in SD games isn't available in the UK PAL PS3 at the mo though. Also games might run at the same speed in 50hz if optimized but when running in 60hz the difference in smoothness is noticable. The extra 10 frames a second makes the display less flickery and the framerate smoother, though the resolution is slightly less. Most gamers agree that 60hz is better than 50hz, and ALL games for consoles and PC's are developed natively at 60hz.

It's not about NTSC as you can have PAL colour and 60hz refresh rate (PAL60) or pure RGB at 60hz, not affected by the NTSC colour system.

60hz is the universal standard monitor refresh rate, regardless of colour system and resolution. It's why the 360 and PS3, also PC's out put HD resolutions all at 60hz.

If you run Resident Evil 4 for example through PS3 you can run it at 576p at 50 Hz, OR 480p at 60 Hz. I can't say for an interlaced signal as my screen and PS3 runs it progresssivley anyway. But anything above 30 fps (which is not the same as 30 Hz by the way) is absolutely fine as long as the framerate is consistent (seeing as the human eye sees at 24 fps). Wich is why nowadays developers aim for a consistent 30 fps, rather that 60 here, 30 there.

As for PAL 60, I believe that was a compromise of sorts between PAL and NTSC. My old electronics tutor at college always praised PAL over "sub-standard" NTSC - in his own words that is.

Just as I thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL

KyoDash · Apr 15, 2007

PS2 games played on a PS3 do have a 60hz option as it was coded into the PS2 games. PS3 games don't on a UK machine though, which is the issue so many are complaining about.

As for 60fps over 30fps, well I can notice this as clear as day. The human eye can still distingush between 30 and 60 clearly, much more so than 50 and 60hz, though technically does not actually see anymore individual frames. They still look smoother in 60fps. Personally I expected 80% of games to run at 60fps in this day and age, as they have been in arcades since 1994 on various hardware.

Just compare FarCry on the PC running at a near constant 60fps, compared to the same game running on 360, or on PC if you bump the resolution up to crazy levels with full detail.

Most developers aim for 30fps due to the difficulty of optimising their code fully to achieve 60fps, not really due to how many frames the eye can see (bandwith and processing issues). To achieve 60fps you could use 60 to 70 million polygons per second with various pixel and vertex effects at max, inc HDR and 4x ant-aliasing, but at 30fps you could do the same with 80 to 90 million polys per sec. The level of detail wouldn't always be better though as you can increase the amout of vertex shading to hide the lower poly count and use increased pixel shader effects for 60fps, as you are rendering less geometry.

It's a trade off, and sometimes it's better to have 30fps with high detail (Gears, RB6, Resi 4) and sometimes 60fps (Forza 2, VF5, VT3, COD3).

As for PAL and NTSC, I agree PAL is much better visually, and PAL 60 gives you the benefit of both PAL and NTSC, though keeps the resolution of NTSC (which is the international monitor standard anyway).