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4805 Calibration

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by digisocialist, Feb 8, 2005.

  1. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    The projected image from my 4805 sits as a frame within a frame. Basically, the picture image sits about an inch inside an outer frame on the 16:9 ratio. I change the setting to Native ratio and no visible difference was had. This is not the same as the letterbox you get on some widescreen films. Does anyone understand what I am describing and is there anything I can do to rectify this?

    Also, whites reflecting off objects are vivid and I think need to be knocked back. Could this be to do with the green wall I am projecting onto and be rectified once I paint it with IceStorm6?

    I need to rectify the frame within a frame issue so that I can accurately measure the area to be painted. At the moment it's a bit pot luck where the image will end up.
     
  2. binbag

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    Have you tried using the overscan feature to 'push out' the image?

    If its a DVI input (2910?) then they can come with a dark grey border - I had a noticable one (9" or so top and bottom) with my old LP350, but that was on a letterboxed 4:3 image.
     
  3. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    I too have noticed this and don't know how to remove it. It happens with both PAL and NTSC discs and I have checked my settings on both DVD player ( 16:9 selected) and projector ( also 16:9 selected). Make sure the 'overscan' function is not selected as this increases the frame. If I were you digi, buy the screen you want and adjust the zoom on the pj so the frame is in the black frame of your screen.
     
  4. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    binbag - I'm feeding a progressive scan image over component at 720p. I haven't altered the 'overscan' but will look at that the next time I fire it up. So the framing is a standard thing by the sounds of it. Is there a fixed calibration configuration anyone has that I could use? I'm looking for an overall adjustement which is tried and tested.
     
  5. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    also, try sending the signal from your DVD player as an interlaced signal. See if the Infocus can do a better job than the Denon
     
  6. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    Oakley - good idea but I don't intend on getting a screen. The wife doesn't like their aesthetic value so the wall it is. I suppose then what I need to do is ensure overscan is off, fine tune my picture and then paint within the grey frame border so my IceStorm6 is only behind the actual picture. Out of interest do you have a configuration I could try out i.e. what you have all your brightness, colour, contrast, gamma, saturation etc settings set to?
     
  7. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    ISF calibration is the only way to get Brightness/contrast and Gamma correct mate at £250 ish well worth considering especially if you are less than happy with areas of PQ, as the levels are source dependant other peoples settings may help you get someway towards improvement but no where near as good having YOUR system done professionally
     
  8. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    Horny - Interesting, but as this would be 25% cost of the actual projector it would have to be pretty damn good. Perhaps one of the AVForums members could offer me their 'expertise' and calibrate my 4805 for me. I'm offering a constant supply of tea/coffee and should anyone offer this service, I will also buy them a tin of their favourite buscuits. ... Oh, and not forgetting my company and morose sensibilities as a form of entertainment for the day.

    ...any offers?

    I live in Hebden Bridge in West Yorkshire if it's local to anyone.
     
  9. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    Digi, considerably cheaper would be to buy Digital Video Essentials or Avia ( DVDs for calibrating your display) or failing that, check out some movies that have a THX optimiser in the set-up section of the disc. I know a few like Terminator 2 and Monsters Inc has it, I'm sure many more do too, just look for the THX logo on the box. This helps you set up contrast, brightness, colour, sharpness etc. But to be perfectly honest with you, the standard settings on the Infocus are so darn good, I tend to play with the settings and always end up back at pre-sets.
    Don't forget the colour 'temperature' is set to D65 which is the setting Hollywood recommend for most movies. If you start fiddling with the colours, you'll knock this out of wack. I do put the contrast/brightness both up to 52 for darker movies, but a screen/white wall should negate even this.
    If you are going to paint the wall, why not just paint the whole of it instead of just a section? This will look even more asthetically pleasing especially where the wife is concerned and make projection much easier.

    Oh one last thing, a great way to set the focus to the sharpest you can get it is to bring up the menu and then adjust it until the menu text is as sharp as possible, then the movies through component will knock ya socks off !
     
  10. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    but what % of system? DVD player, cables, PJ etc???
    Also while i could com eround (sorry mate too far away) and use my DVE Disk in anger it is no where near what ISF can do!
    but before you think I'll spend £300 on new DVD player or upgrade cables etc consider ISF......................
    It will work for all inputs, Sky, VCR etc not just DVD...............

    PS a screen will do wonders mate.....even if its just GOO

    The black border is also essential for your brain to work out what BLACK looks like
     
  11. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    Dont you think ISF is a little overkill on a 4805 though hornydragon? I mean the 4805's real limitation is it's resolution and ISF cannot do anything about that. Infocus have obviously strived to achieve the very best possible picture they can with the 4805 straight out of the box and there is only so much fiddling you can do with the settings to make any significant difference and if the settings are so far off that you need to spend £300 putting them right, then the boys at Infocus should be sacked !!!

    Most of the people I have spoken to who own 4805s , myself included, find the factory settings perfect, or so very close to perfect that they only need a small tweak. If you use a £10 copy of DVE or spend £300 on ISF, once set, will you really be able to look at them and say.. " That image looks £290 better than that one!"

    I doubt it.
     
  12. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    I have never ever seen any display that out of the box looks any good at all, Plasma, LCD TVPJ or RPTV, DLP PJ and RPTV, CRT TV, RPTV or PJ..............
    SO all staff at all manufacturers of displays should be sacked!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Perhaps £250 for ISF on an £800 CRT TV is ecessive but if means the PQ kicks every plasma you have ever seen out of water is worthwile??? i think so!!!! you can have a 14" portable calibrated properly could be a much better picture than a randomn 28"...................................
    DO you want the very bestout of your investment or to throw good monay after bad?

    PS ever seen an ISF calibrated display?
     
  13. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    I have tried outputting an interlaced picture by changing the settings on the 2910 to output in interlaced mode. The projector could not handle this at all and I just got a really bad flickering image. I then changed it back to Progressive. I'm not sure whether I am doing anything wrong but I have selected to output at 720p on the 2910 but when the Projector is setting up the image from the component source it says it's at 576p - does anyone understand why?

    I have also been through the THX optimizer on the Monsters Inc video (just to see what it was). I did make some adjustements which were noticeable in the tests but am not sure how much of an improvement I have made. Other than the 'framing' issue, which I think Horny has answered (basically I need to sort out my screen area), I do notice that bright highlights, especially in Monsters Inc (on Sullys face for example) don't look smooth i.e. they look a little broken up. The rest of the image looks very good, though perhaps a little too washed out sometimes which could mean I need to knock back the brightness.
     
  14. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    No I never have. But I have seen an Infocus 4805 straight out of the box and it looks fantastic. Do you then think that these manufactures purposely produce a projector which is intended to produce a rubbish picture straight out of the box so reviewers can say the image looks rubbish?
    That doesn't make sense. Surely they would strive to produce the best image possible straight out of the box. Now I'm not saying that with different conditions, different screens etc. you should not make adjustments to get the image to a level that you find correct and enjoyable, all I'm saying is that with the 4805, Infocus have already produced a sensational image from a relatively modest spec. It can be bought now for £999. Spending another £300 to make what can only be marginal gains seeing as you are working within the restraints of the specification and seeing as the original image quality is so good looks to me a little excessive.

    Have you seen a 4805 in action hornydragon? It's hard to improve on perfection as they say !!

    Oh and I hope you are enjoying this debate as a healthy discussion ! I mean no offence !
    :thumbsup:
     
  15. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    thats where you need a pro mate.... upscaling DVD players are a waste of time IMO you should either use the diaplays or get a dedicated unit....(Lumagen, Iscan etc)...........
     
  16. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    How far are you sitting from the screen and what screen size are you viewing digi?

    This sounds more like an issue with the DVD player if you are getting 'blocking' within the image. When you send the signal interlaced, just press the auto image button if the image doesn't reset itself after a few moments. Maybe the Denon cannot output a 720i signal, only a 720p signal. Try a 1080i signal and see what that looks like. You might find that the best image comes from a basic 480i/p image where the infocus doesn't have to do any scaling which could also be the reason for the image problems you are getting
     
  17. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    I do agree Oakley that the image out of the box is very good indeed. Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations of what it should look like and I am striving for a level of perfection not achievable on the 4805 or only achievable in the HDTV world.?? If, however Hornys belief in the ISF is such that it could radically alter even the image from a 4805, then I may be tempted to spend the money. At the moment however Im not altogether sure what to do. The settings available in the menu options of the 4805 can only alter the image within those permaters available, so there is presumably a limit to what one can do within those available settings... unless, something else can be done that I am not aware of?
     
  18. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    I have mine connected via component to a very modest panasonic DVd player and I'm over the moon with the image quality. It's smooth but detailed, great contrast, excellent blacks and stunning colours...I have been tempted into buying a DVD player with DVI to hopefully find even more detail, but from the sounds of things, the Denon's don't upscale that well. Stick to 480 res on the Denon and I think you should find the image settles down a bit more
     
  19. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    I have seen and sold 4800,5700,7205,4805 and seen running the 777........(with HD)
    AS well as AE300/500/700, Ivision HD,Optoma H77, H30 H50, H57 along with Projection design Action! model one and 0.5 Barco Cineversum 70, 80 with Master. Sanyo PLV70, Z1,Z2,Z3......................I could go on you know.......
    Perfection is not possible without inclusion of source material and specs, Ambient light, screen gain, throw..........................Again i could go on..... Hopefully at bristol there will be some properly set-up displays.
     
  20. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    what projector do you own hornydragon?
     
  21. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    i dont "own" any projector...............
     
  22. Oakleyspatz

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    And you truly believe that of all the projectors you mentioned, including the 4805 which remember is only £999, they all looked "No good at all " out of the box? Where and under what conditions did you view these pj's ?
     
  23. digisocialist

    digisocialist
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    Oakley - will try 480p from the Denon. I tried a 1080i image and the PJ went mental a bit like strobe lighting, it simply could not set the image up. I wouldn't say I have a blocking issue (though have nevr seen it before so wouldn't really know) but the image on most films looks great, it's just bright spots onj Sullys fur in Monsters Inc which I don't think look right. Of course, I have to remind people that I am projecting onto a green painted wall and this may not be helping with the contrast/colouring either.

    It's also worth saying that the image does looking absolutely amazing.. I may be coming across like I have some major image issue. No, I don't. I just wonder whether in places it could improve.

    I'm sat approx 7ft from the Image due to my massive beanbag. The image I have measured 76"Diagonal, 67"W x 37" tall. Using the Plasma analogy, Oh yes I am pleased. I could not have got an image that size, nor I think of the quality for a grand :)
     
  24. Oakleyspatz

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    using the basis of sitting 2x the screen width away from the image, you should be sitting about 11 foot back to avoid seeing any pixelation. Pixelation will always show itself most in light areas as the lines around each micromirror are dark so will be more prominent. If you can sit a little further back do. What setting do you have currently for contrast and brightness ?
     
  25. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Digisocilaist

    It sounds like you do need to get someone around who can help with configuring your source and display - too many 'issue's and you've only gotten as far as image size and video format.

    I also have to say your having a laugh worrying about 'colour balance' and the like if your projecting onto a GREEN wall :) - unless the settings your wanting to copy are also used projecting onto a GREEN wall they are meaningless for your set-up.

    Have you considered a pull up screen - you can get a 80" Diagonal 16:9 CinemaLITE from Projecta.

    See http://www.projecta.nl/pages/detail...83&PHPSESSID=9f0b0c90c4da492afba0692f473da976

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  26. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    Assuming you've not upgraded the firmware yet to the latest one. The new firmware has improvements made to, and i quote:
    "1080i -> 720p switching improved
    1080i -> 480p switching improved
    Letterbox support on DVI "

    So maybe the issue you are having with sending the 4805 a 1080i signal has been noted and addressed in the latest firmware which you can download from www.infocus.com
     
  27. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    A mixture of demo rooms (some i built and specced) Trade show demos and end user set-ups...All of them showed a picture few at their full potential (including the Trade Show demos and demo rooms) and how does any manufacturer know what your room is like, Ambient light, Screen gain, etc so no way can they be shipped at optimum..........and by "eye" set up can only get you so far................... £999 on a unit if a £1250 unit blew it away would you spend the extra?
    What if the were the same physical unit one ISF'd one out of the box?
     
  28. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    "What if the were the same physical unit one ISF'd one out of the box"

    come again ?
     
  29. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    ok take 2 Projector demod on same screen:
    EG 4805 at £999 & unkown unit at £1250..........
    4805 looks good unknown units looks like it is worth the extra....... crisper deeper image..............
    unknown unit is a 4805 that has been ISF'd do you pay the extra or not????
     
  30. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
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    Oh well, this could go on all night. But as Joe quite rightly said, this is a moot point considering Digi is currently projecting onto a green wall and still thinks the image is fantastic.
    I think a £100 screen will give the biggest improvement !!!
     

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