Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by The Dog, Nov 21, 2001.
Okay, which is one wins - the Toshiba 210 or the Pioneer 444? Seconds out!
444 without a doubt. Better image, better sound, better MP3 interface, build isn't as cheap-looking as the 210.
Drawbacks: lazy layer change, no component outs, only 3 FF speeds.
The nice thing about the 444 is that is comes in black or silver! rather than the tosh which is silver only.
Oh, and it's got excellent sound, picture and MP3 interface.
Even the wife likes it!
Has to be the DV-444 (in black). Just don't buy it from Laserline.co.uk
tosh 210 does come in black and silver.
I would strongly recommend you test both of these players before you buy.
Although the 444 is great, the tosh has the better picture quality imo
Yep, the Tosh gets my vote as well, top notch picture/sound, bit of a bargain!!
I heard that black toshibas were available as import only models, and that the UK spec models were only available in silver. May be wrong though?
If you've got a telly with component inputs (ie Toshiba) then there is no choice. The Toshiba puts out a fantastic picture using component connections. There's nothing anywhere near the price to beat it. Even compared it to an £1,800 Onkyo and at £179 for the Tosh there was no contest.
Toshiba 40WH08B RPTV
Toshiba SD210E (in Black, multi region)
Both are great players but I would go for Toshiba on perforamnce and Pioneer on looks. What is important to you?
Ah, chaps, thank you for your replies. The Tosh has received so many accolades that it was almost decided upon and then I got wind (erm, make your own jokes...) of the Pioneer... I shall have to try and get demos of both but then again once it is in your own home with your own set-up...
While we're all here, any updates on the best or cheapest supplier (not necessarily the same, huh?) for the 444? Empire Direct seemed to be the last time I checked...
Superfi do a multi-regional 444 for £210
So what is the definitive answer - do I get a Tosh or 444 this Saturday ?
The next few years of my life could depend on what you people say !
Tosh - £199 multiregion
444 - £229 multiregion + VCR friendly
I stand by my opinion. I honestly think Pioneer has the edge.
I´d go for the Toshiba!!
I am biased though, as i´ve got one!!
I think you have to go with what smarty wrote.
If your tv has component then get the tosh without any question.
I had the tosh 210 connected this way and the picture was superb.
I then swapped to the pioneer444 (using scart) and the picture quality was nowhere near as good.
If your Tv doesnt have component on the other hand maybe the pioneer would be a better choice?, unfortunately i didn't ever connect the tosh via scart so i can't comment on this.
I have neither player but I have experience of both. It is down to your priorities, mine were / are component outputs which are sublime with Toshiba / Loewe component ready tvs but really come into their own with plasmas and projectors. You might not want these now but in the future......
Two great players, you will be happy with either
the major differences as I see it (and I'm probably wrong cause before this week I knew very little about dvds - internet, bloody marvellous !) are
- the COMPONENT RGB out (present on Tosh, not on 444)
- ? Tosh noisier
- Tosh slightly cheaper
if, in the future I get a display device which can take these outputs, will I see a MASSIVE difference in picture quality ?
is there a workaround ie. is there a SCART RGB to component RGB converter ?
With component outputs you will see a BIG difference. You will also notice this if you have a component input on any tv. (Tosh or loewe). In theory there should be little between them but in practice all users seem to prefer component. Don't know why. It is just the reality of the situation.
I have been looking at the 444 for a colleague.
For myself, I have also been looking for a good player with a component output because I am about to purchase a Sony VW11HT LCD projector. This is where the Tosh 210e caught my eye with it's component output.
Based on the reviews, the 210e is supposed to be a very good player. All reviews other than HCC said it had a near flawless picture. The HCC review wasn't fantastic, they only gave it 9/10 for picture, stating that it isn't as good at the older models. ***However, the review doesn't say whether they used or tested the component output. The frequency response was not mentioned for the Component output, but only for the Svideo/composite. I was very disapointed with this aspect of the review. This is the key selling point for me.
There is no doubt that the picture produced by the component output should be the best that the player is capable of producing.
So, as others have said, it depends on your current display devices and the possible display devices which you might get in the next couple years. You'll be buying a new player then anyway.
Oh, nearly forgot, the reviews also say the 210e is great at placing CD's, although it's not HDCD compliant.
I also noticed on the Richer Sounds website that the 210 is on sale for £187.95 multiregion. Don't know how much in stores.
For the component outputs, I have been tempted to order a Skyworth with its onboard Sage/Faroujda de-interlacer. But the 11HT now includes 3:2 pulldown(which the 10HT didn't). In the demo that I had of the 11HT with a Denon 2800, the deinterlacing of the projector actually did a better job with some jaggies than the Denon in progressive mode. So, I'm pretty confident that the 11HT could be coupled with a good "interlaced" player via component outputs and produce very good results. However, the Skyworth is only £100 more, but no Scart.
The other player that has my attention is the new Pioneer DV-747. Dogs danglies. DVD-A, SACD, progressive(480p & 576p supposedly). Due to be on the shelves before Santa arrives. But, pre-order prices are £899 multiregion. But, you get what you pay for I guess.
I have the same dilemma.
I was all set to buy the Toshiba until this week!
The one thing I don't understand is the component connections. If you use these how is the sound transferred to the tv?
Or do you need to use an amp?
I have a Toshiba 28W8DB tv which (I don't think) doesn't have component input connections.
If that is the case, which produces the best results through scart?!?
I'm so confused!
If it wasn't for that pesky Pioneer....
Thanks in advance!
The three leads needed for component only carry video. You will need a separate lead for digital sound or two separate leads for analogue stereo sound. Component out puts can only be used where the display device as the correct component input. In ordinbary TVs that is certain Toshibas and Loewe Acondas only. Common on projectors and plasmas.
The extra lead (s) for sound can either go to the TV or a separate amp. It is up to you. If you don't have component inputs use a Scart and set it to RGB in menus for DVD and TV.
For those who hanker after great quality signals (interlaced) for feed to a projector but feel the great 210 isn't as good as the old players, there is still the Toshiba 9000 (£310 multi region) available which will satisfy all your requirements, not cost a fortune, brilliant performance and do all you want. Great build as well. As well as the stunning component output the SVideo is better than any RGB Scart I have ever seen. Probably similar quality to the Toshiba 900 but that adds extra features (DVD Audio, Scarts and Progressive scan capabilities).
Nic, where did you find the Toshiba Sd 9000 for £310?
Hi Spek. It's been at that price for months. I am very pleased with it a my 'second' player. Iwon't claim it will beat my Tag, it doesn't but it get closer than anything this side of £1000. Arcam and Tosh 900 are the equal.
Tosh SD 9000 is a fantastic player, but it doesn't have a Scart. It has component, Svideo, & composite.
Thanks for all the responses so far.
The question of build quality has arisen in a couple of reviews with regard to the sd210. Similarly, there have been insinuations that the previous models (ie the 100 and 200) have an edge of their replacements.
Is it worth considering either a 100 or 200 rather than the 210?
I would like SCART (and component video connections, if only to allow for future upgrades). As long as there is a way around the RCE issue, I am satisfied. Playing CD/Rs is not so important to me as multi-region capability and good old-fashioned picture and sound quality, together with good build!!!
I raise a glass to your anticipated replies, gentlemen (he said, sexistly)...
I have a 9000 and am very very happy with it. You could always get a good qulity S-Video to Scart lead and run it though that if you need Scart at the TV end. I got mine from Hi Spek and I can play RCE discs, but I have to play around with the remote to get them going. I belive that you can now get the upgrade upgraded, but that would meen sending to techtronics, and I have no more intention of doing that than thowing it in the bin.
I do think the SD210 is a step backwards over the SD200.
It lost HDCD, 540-line resolution and double tray. Its finish also got tackier.
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