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42PF9986 just arrived with F/W TX21AP-1.2_07701

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by richard.choo, Feb 23, 2005.

  1. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    Hi all

    I have just received 42PF9986 and it has no Component-VGA adaptor but worse than that it has Firmware version TX21AP-1.2_07701 (v1.2) . I thought 1.3 was a year old? Does this mean this unit has been sitting around just waiting to make my day "NOT"! I am about to contact Philips and the Vendor to see what is going on but would really appreciate any help in understanding if I have an ancient unit.

    Richard :mad:
     
  2. osbornej76

    osbornej76
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    Am sure someone more knowledgeable will come along soon, but 1.2 is certainly out of date.

    My 1 week old PF329986 is 2.0 (current FW is 2.2?) did come with DVI-component amd it works.

    Sorry to hear you have old stock.. maybe the 42" Plasma's haven't sold as quickly as the LCD's....

    You should be able to get an exchange.... bloody hassle though!
     
  3. Rob1698

    Rob1698
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    TX21AP probably means "Asian-Pacific". 1.2 looks old but build 07701 seems recent.
    Maybe the version numbering for AP is different.

    European models should have TX21EU.
    If I were you I would be more concerned to have a black-import unit than an old version.
    What does the language menu show? Far-east languages instead of European?
     
  4. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    I also thought AP stood for Asia Pac and I think it does because something is very different. All documentation is European including warranty and I got Euro and UK powercords but only a DVI to VGA convertor. Ok got the TV home and on the wall as I only got the wall mount, seems the table top stand is an optional extra in Spain. Once it was up I got underneath it to get it all connected and what a shock I got, two component/composite inputs and an HDMI connection. What do I do now? I have a Samsung DVD HD745 on it's way as I thought I was getting a DVI connection. No sign of buzzing at any contrast or brightness settings but cannot test component input as I do not have any component kit. Can anyone give some advise on what they would do and why as I have 7 days to reject the unit. I was actually thinking of sending it back and getting the 32 or 37 inch and 40% to 33% of my money back but think about a new PixelPlus HD option in Summer. I am sitting here watching the screen with my girlfriend and I must say I am well impressed with the Sky+ picture but I can't really test it with a PC or Laptop as I have no DVI let alone HDMI kit.

    Rich
     
  5. jimsan

    jimsan
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    Woah there guys. Rewind a bit...

    Firstly, the 42" is an LCD not a plasma. Secondly, this 42" runs with a different type of panel, so the firmware number may be of little significance. Check the actua; Firmware registration date by having a look in the Service Menu. 062596 then the i+ key. The newest dates are from October 2004, will be interesting to know the date of this v1.2.

    You say youve look underneath(?) and found component/composite connections and an HDMI connection?? If it really has an HDMI connection hang onto it! Are you sure? Are the other connections component or composite? Component connections will be Red, Green and Blue. Check again.....

    Your Samsung will connect to the HDMI socket by the way...may need a DVI to HDMI cable though..

    Jimmy
     
  6. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    It is definitely an Asia Pac unit as I have found the manual on the Philips HK site and it has all the inputs my set has. I have enered the service menu and the ROM version is "Jul 14 2004 TX21AP-1.2_07701. I have now adjusted the set to Jimsans settings and the picture does indeed look great.

    There are two AV connections with S-Video, L&R Audio, RGB and composite RCA jacks for each, plus the HDMI socket and a 4 pin service socket. I have attached pictures of the connections but if Jimsan says to keep it I think I'll keep it. That said what is the best way to connect my Sky+, do i need to find a RGB Scart to Component cable and will this work for other things DVD recorder, Etc?

    Thx for making me feel a bit better about my purchase.
     

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  7. Rob1698

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    Well, the connectivity does not look that unattractive. I think many visitors on this forum would have liked a model like this. Of course it is unclear what scanrates the set will accept on AV1/2 (only PAL625 or also progressive?), but at least you can connect two component or two S-video sources. Is there no AV3?
    The European set has 3 SCARTs of which 2 are RGB and one is S-video but they do not do component (as far as I know, could be a bit in the servicemenu).

    It should be possible to use a SCART-to-cinch cable but you need one that has 1 direction of audio and CVBS plus the R/G/B leads. Not sure how easy these are to get.
    What you normally see is SCART-to-cinch 1 direction (3 cinch) or 2 direction (6 cinch), but the latter has 2x2 audio plus 2 CVBS connections and no RGB.
     
  8. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    I have read through the 42PF9986/69 Manual and these are the connections

    AV1 Supports S-Video + CVBS, Component and Audio
    AV2 Supports S-Video + CVBS, Component + H&V sync and Audio
    AV3 Supports HDMI + separate Audio
    Side Supports S-Video + Video and Audio + Headphones

    So does this mean I only have 1 RGB (AV2) as opposed two RGB Scarts? I have also noticed that I have no NexTView option is this worth having, we only watch SKY TV and not sure how useful this would be? I also have no CinemaLink which I believe is only of any use with Philips Sound system so should not affect me.

    I have also checked the Samsung HD745 manual and it seems to have every output except HDMI, the 9986/69 manual says I should have got a HDMI to DVI conversion cable so may take that up with Philips but should be able to test Progressive scan once the unit arrives.

    Based on my limited knowledge I think the following might be the best setup.

    AV1 HD745 Component
    AV2 Sky+ RGB Component if possible
    AV3 PC or AV Amplifier (HTPC future) HDMI
    Side Camcorder or other adhoc devices

    So I also need to buy a VGA to HDMI cable if one exists but I can only find a DVI to HDMI adapter. I hope I can connect this via an HDMI cable to 9986 HDMI input which should leave me with a DVI port that I can hopefully connect the VGA to DVI convertor that was supplied. That said I do not know if the convertor is bi-directional? or whether the HDMI will support Analogue VGA? Failing that I believe I can take a standard VGA 15 pin D-sub to RGB+HV BNC cable and replace the BNC's with Phono connectors. I could then connect this to AV2 but would then need to get the SKY box connected to AV1, is there a big difference in PQ between RGB and S-Video?

    Although the manual clearly discusses progressive scan on component inputs and HDMI I'm not sure if that means they will be supported on all if connected at the same time. i.e. if one of the components is used the others will only support CVBS or S-Video connections?

    Any help would really be greatly appreciated.
     

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  9. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    I have now found out that HDMI does not support Analog at all so I will have to connect Analog VGA output to AV2 RGB+HV I think. I will then have to move Sky+ to AV1 and connect via S-Video or RGB if possible but S-video will be easier. Then I will need to find an DVI to HDMI cable or adaptor for my HD745. Doe this seem like a good solution and will the picture quality of Sky+ be worse than and RGB scart connection? I ask this as this component capable 9986 has really changed the way I was planning to setup the system and part of me thinks I should just send it back and get a normal one? your experience and views would be apreciated.
     
  10. jimsan

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    If you want to get rid of this one, I'm sure you'll have a queue of Forum members outside your door with cash in hand!

    Just clear this up. Are there any scarts at all? I assume not if it is for the Far East market. Definitely connect the Sammy to the HDMI via DVI/HDMI cable.

    The Sky+ will work quite nicely through the S-Video connection, but even better via component. Fancy cable needed here though.

    The NextView and the Cinema Link are a complete waste of time, so no loss there!

    AV amp will run off Phono Outs on the TV and from an Optical connection from the Sky+ box.

    Keep it!

    Jimmy
     
  11. Rob1698

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    It seems that overall you have one input less, or two less depending on how you count them.
    On the EU model there is EXT1, EXT2, EXT3 all SCART but only one with S-video and none with component.
    VGA and DVI/HDMI are combined on one connector. I still want to try a split cable on that one to have two separate inputs (again forgotten to take one home...).
    On your config it is simpler to connect both VGA and HDMI, it seems.

    Don't worry about component vs RGB. They provide exactly the same quality.
    What can be different between them is the support for progressive scan. There is no reason why RGB cannot be used to transport progressive scan TV, but it seems to be not done.
    (VGA is RGB+HV with progressive scan but it is only used by PCs)
    A TV device that outputs progressive scan will normally output component, and the major gripe about the 9986 here is that it is only accepted on that combined DVI input and not on EXT1 and EXT2. But your model has TWO component-capable inputs!

    Is there some menu option to select between CVBS, component and RGB on the AV inputs?
    Or does it detect this automatically?

    On SCART it is easy to autodetect between CVBS and RGB but not S-Video and component.
    Older Philips TVs had menu options to switch a SCART between CVBS/RGB and S-video, but the 9986 does not have these (probably the "Sense and Simplicitly" stuff)
    Instead, the SCARTs are hardwired for CVBS/RGB (1&2) or CVBS/S-video (3) :(
     
  12. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    Sorry for the delay in getting back Not a scart socket in sight and I now have Sky+ over S-video, from 4-5m the picture seems amazing for Sky but I´ve been used to a 21" Beko that came with my rented apartment I have located a QED AV19 Scart to Component RGB + Sync & Stereo Audio cable that I could use from the Sky+ box.

    There is no menu options for CVBS, RGB or S-Video and it seem to automatically select the appropriate connection.

    Jimsan mentioned that other forum members would want this version over the EU version? is this true am a mad to even consider sending this set back?

    Thanks for your help on this matter it has been very useful and reassuring.
     
  13. Rob1698

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    I think in simple setups this set will be great, and you won't miss the third SCART.
    For more complicated setups an external switchbox is required anyway. I have an external SCART switch that also provides more outputs to feed a set in the bedroom. It would also be required when you want to connect a recorder that accepts RGB (DVD-HD recorder) and have more than one source (sat, digital cable or terrestrial).
    In the future, a HDMI switchbox is probably required. All TVs on the market right now have at most one HDMI connection, but when HDMI takes over from what SCART does now, you would want more than one (receiver box, dvd player, PC, etc).

    So all in all, the connctivity provided by the TV itself is one time going to be too limited no matter what model you have, and an external switchbox or AV amp will be required.

    By the way, did the TV come with CD-ROM with a technical manual (folder Files/Service) ?
    If so, could you post the one file of the schematics that has the AV inputs on it?
    In the EU version this is named "IO 2 CONNECTIONS.pdf", but for your version it could have a different name, probably still starting with IO.
     
  14. richard.choo

    richard.choo
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    I checked the CD Rom before and as I suspected it was EU spec as is everything about this unit except the TV itself, the box even says 9986/12. I honestly believe that the TV was accidentally put in the wrong box and I have it but I have not been able to match serial numbers on TV and box. I am still unsure how to proceed as I now read that Philips will release new 2005 LCD line in the 2nd quarter with HDMI, PP HD and faster LCD response times.

    I also bought some Profigold scart cables with the TV that are now of no use so I will need them replaced for Scart to Component leads that the vendor does not sell. As soon as I make the vendor aware of the mistake I will need to control the situation, they may say that the TV is not covered under EU Warranty and needs to be replaced, they may also allow me to keep it as the box does say worldwide warranty. Now although the documentation says the warranty is for 12 months anywhere in Europe, under Spanish Law and on the vendors website 24 months is the guarantee period but this may be invalidated if I decide to keep a non EU set. If I just say nothing I may have a problem in the future if the set develops a problem and they discover the set is not the set it is supposed to be. I also do not want to have to go back to the 21" Beko set after the Philips experience but may have to if I want to ensure I don't have a problem in the future.

    What I may ask is for the unit to be exchanged for a 37" unit as this will save me 33% over the 42" but ask for the 42 to stay until the 37" arrives. I will allow the vendor to hold onto the extra 1700€ and look to purchase an additional 2005 model once it is released but only if I/we believe is worthy.

    What do we think?
     
  15. Rob1698

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    Well, if there indeed is inclarity w.r.t. serial numbers and match between documentation and set, it may be a different situation...
    I could understand it when you decide to send it back. Trouble in the future could result in the situation where they believe you have the serial number printed on the box and other documents, and you are trying to have them service another set you maybe imported from HK yourself.

    At least that should be cleared up.

    W.r.t. next model: that will never change. When you wait for the summer, the set will not be there. It will be shown on some exhibition and it will be available in september. Then when it is september, you have read some announcment that a new model will appear later in the year (maybe a new Sharp), and you again have to decide if you wait.
    And one thing will be certain: the new models will have more features and prices drop.

    LCD TVs are not for people worried about spending too much money. At least not right now.
     

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