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42pd5200 and DVI - help and advice

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by dUnKle, Oct 26, 2004.

  1. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    Hi

    Just got me a Denon 1910 from local dealer and impressed but overwhelmed at the same time by it

    All this resolution talk confuses me so even though I have :rtfm:

    Anyway - can anyone give advice on getting the best from DVI on this set ? What resolution should be used and any othe tips ?

    Thanks

    Oh (and this is said in a polite and respectful manner of everyones views on here) I know some people are not fans of the Hitachi, but I like it
     
  2. MAW

    MAW
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    Try 720p, that should both work and be pretty good. Not 1080i as the hitachi does strange things with it, though it might be interesting, could answer a question or 2, like do they really crop the picture down to fit?
     
  3. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    Thanks mate - I know your not the biggest Hitachi fan but I have respected and enjoyed your info and feedback

    One problem with 720p (and its something that is mentioned in the DVD thread) is that it goes all "funny" with PAL DVDs for some reason

    The screen displays a rolling broken picture combined with what looks like an old C64 loading screen
     
  4. peezee

    peezee
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    I think as per Hitachi specs (and some trials) the PD5x00 series do NOT support 720p @50Hz via the DVI port. It does support 720p@60 though, you might want to give it a try (Z1 or PAL60 DVD)... :)
     
  5. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    eh ?

    sorry - but that really means very little too me :(
     
  6. mray

    mray
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    Peezee.
    If the 5200 doesn't support 720p/50hz, can you tell me why I'm getting a picture through DVI and component when displaying said signal? Could it be something to do with the dvd player?
     
  7. gam

    gam
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    hes saying try a ntsc disc which will be 60hz (which works sort of ok with dvi at 720p) as opposed to pal being 50hz (which i cant get to work through dvi at 720p either)

    ive had an iscan hd (which has in built test patterns) linked up to my hitachi for a fair few months now and have settled now with it set at 1080i through dvi (at both 50 and 60hz), its as good as i can get with the test patterns aswell as actual viewing (for me it only done strange things with 1080i through vga - and have never tried it through component connections)

    MAW....about cropping the picture down..... with 1080i you loose as much of the picture as with 720p (@60hz) and slightly more with 480p/576p but in my opinion the scalling and the (for lack of a better word on my part) control of the picture is better and seemingly clearer with 1080i. When set to get the patterns to get rid of all overscan the panel seems to introduce artifacts/jerkiness especially when panning
     
  8. peezee

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    mray, what I can tell you is that as per Hitachi own specs 720p60, 1080i50 and 1080i60 are supported via DVI, while 720p50 is NOT. I believe the Component (YUV) input does support 720p50 otoh (and all other HD resol's).

    In addition, a vendor (from another forum btw) has tried 720p50 (PAL DVD upscaled to 720p) on a 42PD5200 and it did NOT work.

    It might well be that your DVD player is upscaling to 720p *and* frc'ing to 60Hz (PAL60); for instance the 935 players do just that, iirc.
    I know you can check the actual input signal format on the PD5200, so you might want to do the check next time you try. ;)
     
  9. Rampage

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    Quote: "I know you can check the actual input signal format on the PD5200, so you might want to do the check next time you try."

    How do you do that?

    Cheers
    Chris
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
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    This digital biz is clearly still in beta phase! Just been reading the HDMI spec, I know, a sad thing to do at 7am, and there is hope at the end of the HDMI tunnel, but of course none of this applies to DVI, they can do what they like. The copy protection is part of HDMI, but absolutely optional on DVI, just like resolutions and timings. The thing is the manufacturers specs are a 'minimum'. If it doesn't do what it says, you can complain, but sometimes you find things work wich are not in the spec, they are just 'not tested', like the extended IR codeset for a denon amp, they exist, and work, but are unspecified. So it's always worth trying something. Once you start 'zooming' an image to fit the screen you are actually altering a great deal more than you think, specifically clock timings, that's why it goes all juddery. And your findings would support Hitachi's claim to be dot for dot vertically on 1080i, shame they can't fit the whole picture in. Are you also saying it has overscan on 720p@60Hz?
     
  11. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    God I wish I understood some of that :(

    Huess I just leave the set in 1080 mode
     
  12. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Are you definately running 720p @ 50Hz (1280x768@50) rather than SD (720x576@50) or 720p @ 60?
     
  13. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    You can get a picture using the 720 res

    However you have to change the DVI settings on the set - this then however results in about an inch and half of picture missing - the whole thing is shifted that amount to the right

    need to dig the sets instructions out
     
  14. MAW

    MAW
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    Image shift is a frequency issue usually. I have recent experience of it with an iscan HD that wouldn't lock at 75Hz, kept jumping back to 50 every time you changed inputs. Do you get a black bar down the left side? Or is the image too big for the screen.
     
  15. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    A small black bar down the left of the screen (about an inch or so) but also the picture is definatley too big for the screen

    using the menu for farenhieght 9/11 on R2 as an example (is the picture from the box or moore and bush holding hands) you only get as far as bushs arm and part of his body - would say a 3rd of picture is missing

    To get the player to output 720 (all be it with the over sized picture on R2) the 5200 has to be set as DVI-PC
     
  16. gam

    gam
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    seems to, overscan pattern on avia are around 2-3% for both 720 and 1080.....pattern doesnt change position when changed between them

    can get the same as duncan for 720p for pal, image stretched way out to the left so missing about 1/3 as he says and also looks squashed when on pc mode.

    what do you think of it set at 1080i through dvi (i got the picture settings set more preferably in stb mode than pc mode on the screen) , personally i have ended up with it there after a fair bit of messing around with various resolutions in both pc and stb mode as well as with the vga socket
     
  17. peezee

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    Hmm... so I take it from this discussion that yes, the PD5200 can accept a 720p@50Hz video signal at its DVI i/p, however:

    a- there's vertical black bar on the left, about 1 inch wide
    b- the pic is zoomed in such that about a third of it is missing
    c- you have to set it to DVI-PC input (vs DVI-STB normally)

    or s'thing like that. Well, I guess that's why Hitachi don't want to specify it in their PDF spec docs... :laugh:

    Also looks like there are overscan issues with 720p60 and 1080i resolutions and that you have to fiddle with settings a bit to get something decent on the screen... :rolleyes:

    Wondering what's the situation like when using an actual PC (i.e. not a DVD player), since one can play with the PC video output signal timings (using powerstrip etc...) and maybe generate a signal the PD5200 will like... :confused:
     
  18. MAW

    MAW
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    I hear they are fine at XGA, not too bad to look at. Not native obviously, but then what is native to a Hitachi? And the pixels are that small I'd expect the scaling to look OK. I've used 42" Fujitsus at this res, they are OK
     
  19. gam

    gam
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    peezee..... yeah to the first part, couldn't watch it due to too much picture loss although the overscan for 1080i (very decent picture with no fiddling of settings) and 720p in reality is similar to what you would get through component or scart so for me its not an issue although with the scaler you would like to have no/minimal overscan but to achive that with this set you introduce other undesireable effects, so you have to compromise somewhere

    ps the 1 inch black bar would be what overscan on tv's would take out of the picture its being sent...... the left hand line on the iscan test patern is right at the side of the screen where you would idealy want it, and then the amount of overscan in the scaler menu would be applied so the picture would be at the side of the screen (if that makes any sense, i know what i mean but may not be explaining it that well)


    maw.... i have a pc connected to the vga socket and xga (thats 1024x768 isn't it?) and its as good as i can get with it, although with the iscan with video sources, if i remember right, there was visable judder with xga ie bloomberg scrolling text wasnt very smooth aswell as general panning looked unnatural

    lol.... dont think it has one to honest...... just dont get me started with 1024x1024 or 1024x512 or the likes, just creates more of a mess compared to 1080i..... in my opinion 1080i is as good a signal to send to these things as your going to get
     
  20. MAW

    MAW
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    Hmmm, Hitachi, I'd best shut up I think.
     
  21. peezee

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    LOLL! Looking for the native resolution on a Hitachi is akin to finding sincerity in a lawyer... you've got to search A LOT!! :laugh:
    <err... no lawyer following this thread, right...? :devil: >
     
  22. mray

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    I think I may have spoken too soon. When I cycle through the display output options on the dvd player and select what should be 720p/50hz, the Hitachi tells me it's displaying vertical res 60hz. I had also read the Hitachi spec, which had no mention of 720p/50hz, but I think I was fooled by the player! :blush:
     
  23. peezee

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    Ahaa - now you talk! ;) Thanks for clearing that up.
     
  24. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    Few things I have found out

    For some reason the NR techniques actually seem to effect the players picture when connected by DVI - I have had them turned off in the past but a qucik experimentation whilst watching Exorcist III on R2 DVD saw the picture really improved by putting them all to maximum - strange but true !

    Also Black Enhancment - I used to use this on the low setting but have found vi DVI its better off
     
  25. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    Just out of interest - has there been any update on getting 720 mode working on NTSC and PAL
     
  26. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    anyone ?
     
  27. MAW

    MAW
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    If it only takes 60Hz that's it I'm afraid. It might be just as well, as the Hitachi panel internally runs at 60Hz, it's wonder to me they display PAL at all! The jerking you have noted is frame rate converion trouble, the 'judder' that panasonic owners complain of on DVI, for the same reasons.
     

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