4 zone/4 source to power 11 speakers?

[marubex3]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum, I have been doing some research but haven't been able to find the answer I am searching for.
We bought a place an it already has 10 speakers divided into 3 zones, 4/4/2. We need an amp to power them, but depending who we ask (installer/seller), some suggest a 4 zone will power them (control4), some say it is not enough and suggest 6 zones/source (essentia) or rousssound(they are the most expensive option, specially their install costs, so unless they are the absolute best, we rather go for another option).
So you think a the control4 4 zone would be adequate? Or the essentia? Or if you have any other suggestions, please do.

Thanks in advance

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

Normally with 10 speakers (title says 11?) you'd run 5 zones, meaning a 6 zone (5 zone) amplifier. But since you're wired for 3 zones, which I take to mean that 3 pairs of stereo speaker connections are being presented to the amplifier - as 4 of the speaker pairs have been wired together with no possibility of separation, there's no need for more than a 4 zone (3 zone) amplifier. My guess is that the installers who suggest 6 zone amplification are assuming you do not have any of the speaker wires tied together in inaccessible location. Perhaps you could clarify the exact wiring, even posting a sketch, to avoid recommendations based on incorrect assumptions?

Of course since speakers are tied together, that means you're driving two speakers from a single connection. You'll need to exercise a little caution with the impedance. If you like a more precise explanation, post details on the speakers.

Russound are a reputable manufacturer of whole-house distributed audio systems, and indeed would be have been one of my suggestions (together with Sonance). Control4 is a new player. I have not previously heard of essentia (NuVo?).

 

[marubex3]

Thank you Mark.
You are correct the Essentia is Nuvo
I said 11 speakers, because right now there are 10 in ceiling, but we are thinking of adding the 11th, not sure yet or just go with a portable device.
Room1 has 4 speakers
Room2 has 4
Room 3 has 2,
There as 4 wires to where the set up is supposed to go. Each of these zones has a older Russound in-wall controller (don't care if I get to use them or not)
The Control4 Suggested is a 4 Zone C4-8AMP1-B, and the Nuvo is the essentia NV-E6GMS-DC.

Does the wattage per zone, implies two speakers per zone?
The Control4 says 60 watts per chanel at 8 ohms- 120 watts at 4 ohms and the Nuvo specifies 40 watts (20 w x 2) at 6 ohms.

Sorry for all the ramble, but I am really lost. Which do you think would suit our needs best?

 

[amcluesent]

The Sonos CONNECT:AMP is a combined music streamer/55W amp which can drive 2 speakers per channel like this, so long as the impedance stay above 4 ohms.

Three Sonos units may give you the means to power the 3 zones, and give you the flexibility to synchronise multi-zone playback from a NAS, external analogue source or internet radio. The PLAY:5 or PLAY:3 would give you the portable device, choose depending on the size of space.

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

I guess the in-wall controller is wired up, so you get to use it; this is also a good thing.

Unfortunately you didn't identify your speakers or give their specifications. Since the speaker's requirements are the crucial determining factor, it's not possible to answer your question on power requirements or to make any judgment on amplifier suitability.

The NuVo NV-E6GMS-DC is a 6 zone amp controller / amp for 6 sources, the Control4 C4-8AMP1-B supports 4 zones form 6 sources. Since you have 4 sets of wires, you only need a 4 zone controller / amp. Perhaps the NuVo Simplese, which is their 4 zone series, would be a better fit that the 6 zone Essentia series?

It is hard to obtain pricing on custom install products. it looks like the Control4 is rather cheaper than NuVo. Perhaps you could post what you're being quoted (along with details on the speakers), so we can consider the price - performance ratio in any suggestion?

A separate question is one of quality - best addressed by auditioning.

 

[marubex3]

Thank you. About the sonos, sounds interesting, but don't know if it would allow me to connect other sources such as TV, and Blu Ray, do you know if it is possible?

Mark, I took me a while to find the info, the speakers came with the house.
Two are Polk Audio RC80i, Checked their webpage and states 20-100 Watts per channel, impedance 8 ohms
The rest (8 speakers) are Polk Audio RC65i, 20-100W/channel, impedance 8 ohms.

What do you think?

 

[Ian932]

I see no issue with those speakers in that configuration with Control4 or Sonos, I can't comment on the others as we only deal with the two mentioned. The rooms with four speakers will give you a 4 ohms impedance assuming they are wired in parallel.

Sonos has a Line-in on them to bring in line level audio but I can't recall if there is a lag on the audio which would give you a lip sync issue. Personally I hate my video audio coming out of stereo ceiling speakers, it just doesn't sound right when the dialogue sound should be projected at you from the TV position.

Control4 will require at least a HC-250 as well as the amplifier to get you up and running however this does have the added benefit of being able to pipe the sound from your other sources to the ceiling speakers and it will give you control of your AV devices from a single remote or mobile device. On a system this size it could even be done as plug and play if all the equipment being controlled is known and the end user has a certain level of competency. We have even learnt IR codes remotely for customers I'm sure some purist C4 dealers will tell us we are doing it all wrong and should be on site charging £xxxx for it, but my customers are happy bunnies and that's what counts

 

[marubex3]

Thank you, I will explore the sonos option as well.
I just ran into some more confusion. I have 5 sets of speakers:
4 speakers in zone 2
4 speakers in zone 3
2 speakers in zone 1
Each sone has one in wall, control pad (previous russound model).

But there are 4 medialinq 14 gauge cables,
4 "split" wires., what does this mean about how they are wired?
Have cat5 wires and some other sort of cabling.

Sorry for all the trouble, but depending wich installer/seller I talk to here, depends the answer.

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

As Ian say, those speakers are pretty bening, and all of your options will be quite capable of driving them in the paired combination you have.

Since you have 4 sets of cables, you need a four zones. The reason you are being told by some installers that you need 6 zones is because you keep stressing that you have 10 speakers, which implies 6 zones and in a situation where it's not clear what you have, 6 zones is undoubtedly the safest option.

However, since as you also keep explaining some of your rooms have four speakers wired up as if they were two speakers, you do not need to consider the two pairs of speakers as two zones, but as one zone with a pair of "dualled" 4 Ohm speakers.

What you now need to deal with is your position on the price vs quality axis. Auditioning at your dealers is the only way you're going to be able to answer that question.

 

[marubex3]

Thank you. I think I am going to explore the control4, and the sonos options.

 

[marubex3]

I think I have decided to go with control4, so we can add lighting control later.
Since I already have a bunch of airport express units, is there a way to use it to stream music from ipod to control4 amp, so I don't have to buy the ipod dock?

 

[Mark.Yudkin]

I think I have decided to go with control4, so we can add lighting control later.
Since I already have a bunch of airport express units, is there a way to use it to stream music from ipod to control4 amp, so I don't have to buy the ipod dock?

I believe not, but there are dedicated specialist forums here on portable players and streaming that will be much more helpful than this one.