4 different dacs and I can't hear any difference?

Farmboy75

Standard Member
Ask your self a question why does one car win a race? Does it win by just the skill of the driver? Does the mechanical technician have anything to do with it? Does the car with the best spec sheet always win? Spend some more time and listen to what you really have. That is not ment as an insult. Another thing to think about do you suppose that the sensors in the submarines are just kind of plunked down? Or is there maximum performance in the setup so that they can direction find or for that matter even be able to tell if there is another warship around. For years and years submarines follow and record the sonic signature of other ships and boats. That is one of the ways that they know what class of sub they are following. The drug lords in South America bought some kilo class subs from the Russian s and used them to smuggle drugs the problem for the USN was trying to identify not that it was a kilo class sub but if it was a drug lord boat or a Russian boat.

These forums are not ment to be about Insulting one another sorry if it came across that way. In my opinion they are ment to gain and learn information from others experience. I expect that you will act like a gentleman the last comment doesn't seem to reflect that. Regards
 

FaxFan2002

Well-known Member
In my relatively limited experience I've found that the AMP & speakers setup is key. I upgraded my AMP and speakers to a Musical Fidelity M5Si and PMC twenty5 21i, I immediately noticed the my DAC at the time didn't sound great (CXN V2) when listening on this combination. I tried a Blusound node 2i without much joy. So I bit the bullet and went for a fairly high end Matrix Audio X-Sabre the sounds difference was immediate and obvious.

To me, you have to look at everything in the setup.
 

oscroft

Member
These forums are not ment to be about Insulting one another sorry if it came across that way. In my opinion they are ment to gain and learn information from others experience. I expect that you will act like a gentleman the last comment doesn't seem to reflect that. Regards
The thing is, when you approach discussion on the basis that you are undoubtedly correct and anyone who disagrees with you must have a closed mind... well, I'm just not interested, that's all.
 

Farmboy75

Standard Member
I like your amp and speaker that you chose I have heard both of them. Not familiar with your front end. It is amazing how much difference is to be discovered among different components and differences in setup. Lol I spend a bunch of money when I first got into this I bought with my eyes and spec sheets. After I started using my ears things eventually got better. it took me awhile to realize what was wrong it kept getting worse as I bought items that raised the resolution. I bought a pair of kef 103s and my world finally changed for the better.
 

Farmboy75

Standard Member
You seem to have a solid opinion that you do not want to question. That is a sad thing for you to have. Life does get better with an open mind.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
You seem to have a solid opinion that you do not want to question. That is a sad thing for you to have. Life does get better with an open mind.
Have you tried just listening to the music? The perfect position is hard to achieve because our heads move around. There are speakers that give a wider dimension and can hold onto a really good position even moving your seating around a little, KEF's UniQ drivers are exceptional at this.

My speakers are set up and haven't moved for probably six years or so, but it's rare for me to sit in the exact same spot every time I listen to music. I lean back in the chair, sometimes I sit more upright, all depends on how much my back aches or if there's a Cocker Spaniel giving me a cwtch, yet I still enjoy the experience and the music.

If you want critical listening everytime and want to hear every nuisance of the music, for good or bad, then a quality headphone amp and headphone combination will take the speakers' miniscule positioning and the room right out of the equation.
 

Farmboy75

Standard Member
I had a boxer bulldog cross that would position himself dead center and he would listen and turn his head to the sound stage to where the singer was standing. It was really interesting to watch once In awhile he would bark at the soundstage. The better the fidelity the easier or at least I find it is to get immersed In the music quite fun actually to have Ella and Louis standing in your room singing A duet for your pleasure. On critical listening sorry but I just cannot listen to a horrific recording. But immersion in the music happens everytime. This thread started about critical listening as well.talking about differences in DAC s or lack there of. After the let setup I went to an actively bi amped set of magnipan speakers 3.3. I really enjoyed that system and what I call the American presentation of music as well. Gone beyond that as well now. As far as head position goes when you are driving your car do you have to keep adjusting your head when you look in the rear view mirror or do you just turn your head or eyes and the vision is the same all the time?
 

sebna

Member
Well implemented DACS are now available at many price points. There is still a fair amount of crud around so be careful but there is no audible difference between a good £100 DAC and a good £5000 DAC. Yamaha typically do a good DAC implementation.

With the class D improvements of the last 10 years we will soon get to a similar situation with amplifiers.

We may eventually get there with speakers and room correction too, but that is still a fair way off.
That is simply not true. At least not in my experience. The thing is that, yes 100 DAC can sound similar to 5k DAC but if you use the same two DACs in well put together 20 - 40k system (where 5k DAC belongs) you will instantly know why 5k DAC costs 5k and why 100 one only 100. The difference will be obvious.

You need highly resolving and refined components to hear what DACs have to offer and why some cost 100 while other 5k.

High quality stereo system is about transporting you and about emotions invoked in the process. The medium for achieving it is music :) (preferably good one ;) )
 
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Farmboy75

Standard Member
I agree the more resolution that a person has the more everything little thing can be heard. High resolution is both a blessing and a curse. With high resolution you are basically tuning a race car instead of a run of the mill ford.
 

Daniel 70

Active Member
Why do many high fidelity manufacturers have standby switch's on there equipment?
Because there are always people out there who fall for any gimmick. No there was once a good reason. The thermal inertia of transformer windings , the mu characteristic of a valve varies. Now when we used valve based scopes and high resolution valve waveanalysers , we needed to set them up a few hours before measurements were taken , because they drifted .. thermal inertia. Much less of a problem nowadays with matched pairs of transistors in long tailed pair configurations.
The most malleable piece of Hi Fi Kit is the 4 inches between the ears.
 
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dogfonos

Well-known Member
I knew that was coming.
Always happy to fulfill expectations.

You need highly resolving and refined components to hear what DACs have to offer and why some cost 100 while other 5k.
Is it possible that technology has advanced to a stage where even a good quality cheap DAC exhibits resolution beyond that of human hardware?

(...and no mention of confirmation bias anywhere in this thread - astonishing!)
 

Farmboy75

Standard Member
Always happy to fulfill expectations.


Is it possible that technology has advanced to a stage where even a good quality cheap DAC exhibits resolution beyond that of human hardware?

(...and no mention of confirmation bias anywhere in this thread - astonishing.
Yes and maybe a yugo can keep up with a Ferrari but most people don't drop them out of planes!
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
I think the standby switch is also something to do with EU regulation on energy efficiency, but could be incorrect.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I think the standby switch is also something to do with EU regulation on energy efficiency, but could be incorrect.
Neither of my amps has standby function. My Lehmann Linear headphone amp only has an on/off situated at the back, it's left on 24/7 with me because of heavy use. My Rega Elicit has a front fascia push button on/off. I'll usually turn the Rega on an hour before it's used in HT by-pass and it's left on over the weekend when there is a lot of music listening done.

Having a smart meter fitted tomorrow so I'll have to hide the display thing from the missus. :)
 

oscroft

Member
I've always thought Standby is mainly for the convenience of being able to switch everything on/wake it all up from the remote control and/or app - which seems to be an essential for everything in modern life.

Leaving a piece of kit in standby doesn't keep it at running temperature, as that would need the same power consumption as... well... running.
 

gava

Active Member
That is simply not true. At least not in my experience. The thing is that, yes 100 DAC can sound similar to 5k DAC but if you use the same two DACs in well put together 20 - 40k system (where 5k DAC belongs) you will instantly know why 5k DAC costs 5k and why 100 one only 100. The difference will be obvious.

You need highly resolving and refined components to hear what DACs have to offer and why some cost 100 while other 5k.

High quality stereo system is about transporting you and about emotions invoked in the process. The medium for achieving it is music :) (preferably good one ;) )
Not in a blind test you won't. No chance you can tell the difference between the ones I mention above. Nobody could tell by ear.
 

doggy

Active Member
I've just realised I have another dac i haven't tested. Its a cheap £5 Chinese ebay one, its on my bedroom TV to take in toslink and output it to a rca input on my yamaha crxn470. I have bw 601s in the bedroom and it sounds decent, not as good as my living room but still acceptable.

I have a mibox s connected to the TV via hdmi. On the mibox I have vlc player and that allows me to access my flac files on my hard drive connected to the Teufel. So the music passes through the mibox to TV to dac then onto the yamaha.
 

doggy

Active Member
I've carried out some further testing on my bedroom system.
I was playing the same song through the mi box and a tibo bond mini I have. Both plugged into aux 1 and 2. I couldn't hear a difference between these two.

I then compared the yamaha crxn 470 to the tibo bond mini and I could hear quite a difference.
The bond mini isn't terrible but it can't compare to a mini system.

All music played was flac files.
 

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