3xCCD HD cams ?

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Making Forum' started by ThreeDee, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. ThreeDee

    ThreeDee
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    I'm considering buying a HD camera, but no idea which brand/model.

    What does HD constitute in terms of camcorders ? Is is 720, 1080 , "p" or "i" ?

    What sort of media for recording ? Least interested in HDD camcorders.

    What about grain-o-vision every single camcorder i handled has ? Does 3xCCD fix that ?

    Money. Is there such thing as "low-end" to these things ? I'm not to fork out 1000 pounds for it... ???
     
  2. senu

    senu
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    High definition?... HDV?
    1080 i, minimum.. although full HD recording is apparently 1920 x 1440 and Canons HV20 apparently does "progressive" recording (There is a note about the Sanyo models below)
    MiniDV : HDV... Anything else ( HDD, DVD , SD cards) :AVCHD (Mpeg4 H.246) ,, JVC has introduced a new standard with THIS camcorder
    Of all of them , only HDV currently has good editing support. Sony have just annouced suppport for AVCHD
    Here

    Grainy footage is not fixed by 3CCD , it is a sign of a camcorder struggling in low light,. It is fixed bt the camcorder as a whole : Lenses, sensor electronics and image processing. The Sony ( and Canon) single chip CMOS chips are better in low light , than say some of Panasonics more affordable 3CCD offerings
    But the much costlier Sony FX1 with 3 CCDs is better at low light than the more affordable single CMOS
    In fact traditionaly , 3CCD gives a better colour definition at the cost of some light sensitivity
    Depends on what you mean by "low end" All the current consumer HD camcorders are less than £1000 AFAIK ( the older HC1 wasnt ) but current models from Sony and Canon seem to be just short of £1000

    Sanyo do make some models 720p as mpeg4 but I'm deliberately omitting them: certainly you can consider them if money is tight as they do apparently give a good account of them selves but I ( personally) don't rate them much for anything serious but by definition they are HD camcorders and they use cards

    You do get what you pay for though, so Better low light abilities and manual control may add more

    The Prosumer, Semi Pro ones With 3CCD which will give you little or no " grain o vison" ( as you call it.. cost (In some cases) multiples of £1000:cool:!!
     
  3. ThreeDee

    ThreeDee
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    Well, i guess i'll stick to grain-o-vision then. I'm not about to start lugging my old beta again, just for clarity of picture. Hated those things. Heavy as hell, sore shoulders, etc. I was expecting too much of consumer cams, btw :D If i cant get grain-less-vision at home for sane amount of money - i'm not intereted. I guess no point in money wasting then... /me waiting 5 more years...
     
  4. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    What does HD constitute in terms of camcorders ? Is is 720, 1080 , "p" or "i" ?

    JVC has some 720p models, but the majority of models are 1080i.

    What sort of media for recording ? Least interested in HDD camcorders.

    HDV camcorders use miniDV tapes. There are also AVCHD camcorders which use HDD, DVD, and/or flash memory. And there is the JVC HD7 which uses HDD but is MPEG2 rather than AVCHD. In my view the HDV cams are best value currently.

    What about grain-o-vision every single camcorder i handled has ? Does 3xCCD fix that ?

    This will be due to the low light performance. 3xCCD doesn’t help with that, in fact a camcorder with a single large sensor will generally have better low light perfomance than a 3xCCD model. The models I’d recommend (especially if on a budget) would be single CMOS, not 3xCCD.

    Money. Is there such thing as "low-end" to these things ? I'm not to fork out 1000 pounds for it... ???

    Approx web prices for the cheapest HDV models (which are all 1080i)

    Sony HC5 £600
    Canon HV20 £700
    Sony HC7 £750

    There us also the Sanyo Xacti models which are 720p, record MPEG4 to memory cards. These are cheaper but I don’t believe as good.
     
  5. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Sorry, was writing same time as Senu again... :blush:

    ThreeDee, I would't neccessarily write off HDV models like the HV20, HC5, HC7. Their low light performance is pretty good, and if you add light they are outstanding.
     
  6. ThreeDee

    ThreeDee
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    I tend to avoid sony lately, because of their money grubbing tactics. Microchips in batteries ? What a hell with that ? Extortionate accessory prices. A car power adapter for my sony satnav cost me 60 quid !!! bastards. its a bloody piece of wire with two plugs on them... ebay doesnt sell them, btw... Hate sony as a company, want to avoiding locking myself with sony products... PS2 was brilliant, but thats it...
     
  7. senu

    senu
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    Great minds....:D

    Totally agree; Some of these camcorders have intrinsic good low light abilities , and in addition you can up the gain ( within reason) to get better exposure without too much grain.
    The unpleasant grain I would be more unhappy with is more from the Cheap and cheerful low cost camcorders, not the examples Mark has quoted

    The HC1 ( my walkabout) is said to do less well in poor light than its more recent brethen and it is not bad at all
    in low light
    I have used it in extremely poor lighting to test just how bad it got and .. it was watchable TBH

    I dont know what is unacceptable to you but some of these modern consumer camcorders have much better electronics now

    I suppose the pragmatic thing is to got into a shop and give them a bit of a "test": you might be pleasantly surprised
     
  8. senu

    senu
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    Sony ....:D . The Sony bashing thread is HERE
    Youll find you are in good company:rotfl:
    However , they do make good affordable camcorders:
    I dont love Sony ( Ill never buy a PSP or PS3) but I respect their ability to make camcorders at a decent cost (IMO), and nice PC monitors ( such as Im using now)
    Thier Software ( Vegas , ect) isnt bad either....

    Still you can buy a Canon...:rolleyes:
     
  9. ThreeDee

    ThreeDee
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    Well, i dont HATE sony per se. I employ rationale to deciding whats good and whats bad. No PSP or PS3 for me too. Unless they CONSIDERABLY drop prices. I cant disparage their product quality when it comes to audio/video. Only thing i really was unlucky with are sony pc monitors (lcd's)... Loads of "non-replaceable" dead pixels... In many monitors i bought...

    As for acceptable quality, well, tricky one. I prefer as good as Beta's of old were. :D But its a long shot from what i see now. Its all more or less rubbish. Compare phone cameras with good dedicated still cameras and you'll get my idea of visual quality. phone cams would be household camcorders of today... I'm damaged goods, due to working at the tv station some years ago and grain-o-vision even then was a-no-no. Well, only in really bad lighting conditions. But in that case you get one of the guys lug a big light behind you all the time :D
     
  10. senu

    senu
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    One more thing.. video with less than exciting lighting can, ( within limits) be fixed in PP

    My Sony LCDs ( and CRTs ) have been very well behaved.

    My wives Sony Clie has not..:mad: She still remembers her Psion PDAs of old with nostalgia and fondness

    We still have a 10 and 14 year old CRT trinitron TV at home.
    But
    In fair to good lighting, the HDV output from the Sony HC1 and FX1 playing thru a 37 Phillips HD ready and Samsung HD 19" will get a "WoW" from any one but the most jaded

    Even if you aren't dead keen on buying, be aware that broadcast quality kit costs multiples of times more than these little wonders and as such , they are phenomenal value for money if you accept the limitations of thier abilities.
     
  11. electrosim2001

    electrosim2001
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    Sanyo do make some models 720p as mpeg4 but I'm deliberately omitting them: certainly you can consider them if money is tight as they do apparently give a good account of them selves but I ( personally) don't rate them much for anything serious but by definition they are HD camcorders and they use cards>

    You do get what you pay for though, so Better low light abilities and manual control may add more

    The Prosumer, Semi Pro ones With 3CCD which will give you little or no " grain o vison" ( as you call it.. cost (In some cases) multiples of £1000!!
    snip

    I bought a Sanyo HD-2 camcorder because it's so easy to use, slips in the pocket, and the flip-open LCD screen activates recording in a split second.

    Didn't expect too much from the camera, but footage looks stunning on my 46" DLP set. 720 progressive, albeit upscaled by my set to 1080i.
    Love this camcorder for its ease of use, just needs care in low light.
     

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