3D projector advice

Gary Palmer

Standard Member
Hi Folks,

I'm a very long-term member of the forums and I'm a bit weird in that I actually love 3D.

The problem I have is my current 1080p DLP projector just isn't bright enough to do 3D justice once the bulb starts to age a bit.

Can anyone recommend a bright, 4k projector that does 3D well?

I can't afford £10k high-end but it's time for an upgrade. Are there any 3D fans out there that can guide me?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice

Cheers
Gary

p.s. The PJ needs a 12v trigger for the drop down screen...
 

nitram100

Distinguished Member
I was always under the impression there's no such thing as 4K 3D projectors. Just 1080p 3D projectors, or 4K prokjectors.

I would absolutely love if there were , though
 

kyle123

Standard Member
I’m in the same boat and have been considering an Epson tw7400 or 9400. The 9400 is brighter, they’re both fauxK but I reckon probably deliver one of the best bang for buck. A 7400 is around £2,000
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Can anyone recommend a bright, 4k projector that does 3D well?

I can't afford £10k high-end but it's time for an upgrade. Are there any 3D fans out there that can guide me?
ive had experience of both the epson and JVC projectors doing 4k and 3D. the epson is a 1080p machine that pixel shifts to show a higher resolution and does 3D very well. in JVC i had the X series pixel shift for some years and also now the N7 thats a native 4k machine and can recommend both... all these options do 4k and 3D well. all come with a 12V trigger.

theres also the 4k native sony machines... but i havent seen them doing 3D for a very long time....
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hi Folks,

I'm a very long-term member of the forums and I'm a bit weird in that I actually love 3D.

The problem I have is my current 1080p DLP projector just isn't bright enough to do 3D justice once the bulb starts to age a bit.

Can anyone recommend a bright, 4k projector that does 3D well?

I can't afford £10k high-end but it's time for an upgrade. Are there any 3D fans out there that can guide me?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice

Cheers
Gary

p.s. The PJ needs a 12v trigger for the drop down screen...


if u need brightness for 3D, I think the epson range have full colour brightness with LCD panel and the highest lumen output in 3D so will be your best bet if you want to prioritise a bright image. so even if a DLP says it has higher lumen count, epson will look brighter and be brighter across more scenes.

JVC projectors as far as I'm aware in 3D don't have the gigantic lumen output Epson's do in 3D but they have much better blacks for a much better contrast.



If you just need a 3D projector with 4K and on a budget, I think you should be looking at 9300 if your light output requirement is the most important.

if you are looking for best 2D PQ on the market for ur price range and can pay a bit more alongside a fantastic 3D image, you should be looking at a JVC PJ with a 1600+lumen count and light controlling.i think X5000 and above and obviously if u can afforod it, N-series is a no brainer.


I have found sony's bulb based PJs not very good for 3D bcause they dont pump the lumens out and i think lumen count is important for 3D. I think if ur room is treated and blacked out, JVC will be fantastic all round. If its not, Epson might pull ahead for 3D. 2D i don't think anyone will debate the superiority of JVC over Epson .
 

Gary Palmer

Standard Member
Great feedback folks. Really appreciated.

It's not a bat cave (that was a previous life).

I think I'll have to try a home trial somehow post lock-down.

3D blu-rays are £2-3 in CEX which is so much fun.. !

Cheers,
Gary
 

rustyk21

Active Member
For flatscreens, all 3d is 1080p, except the old 4k passive OLEDS.
You might find crosstalk an issue with LCD, depends on the film and if you look for it or not.
DLP basically doesn't suffer from crosstalk at all, apart from any induced by the glasses.

This generally also allows native 120Hz (for pc/console) and better motion, which might make DLP better for gaming. It's a complete rabbit hole though and there is no one size fits all.

For 2d film viewing, pretty much all the devices mentioned above are superior to DLP. They have superior contrast and better black levels, although a non-treated room will elevate black levels anyway. LCD has come a long way for 3d and most people seem perfectly happy with it, but there are inherent pros and cons to both technologies.

For 3d, If you possibly can, I would also look at one of the laser powered DLP 1080p devices like a ZH406 or for 4k, one of the Benq 4k DLPs. There are tons of options, with different spec colour wheels, no colour wheel, different throw ratios, warranties etc. etc. etc.

Just throwing some ideas out there, there is a lot of devil in the detail.
Meant to ask, what's the current projector?
 

Gary Palmer

Standard Member
For flatscreens, all 3d is 1080p, except the old 4k passive OLEDS.
You might find crosstalk an issue with LCD, depends on the film and if you look for it or not.
DLP basically doesn't suffer from crosstalk at all, apart from any induced by the glasses.

This generally also allows native 120Hz (for pc/console) and better motion, which might make DLP better for gaming. It's a complete rabbit hole though and there is no one size fits all.

For 2d film viewing, pretty much all the devices mentioned above are superior to DLP. They have superior contrast and better black levels, although a non-treated room will elevate black levels anyway. LCD has come a long way for 3d and most people seem perfectly happy with it, but there are inherent pros and cons to both technologies.

For 3d, If you possibly can, I would also look at one of the laser powered DLP 1080p devices like a ZH406 or for 4k, one of the Benq 4k DLPs. There are tons of options, with different spec colour wheels, no colour wheel, different throw ratios, warranties etc. etc. etc.

Just throwing some ideas out there, there is a lot of devil in the detail.
Meant to ask, what's the current projector?
Hi Rustky

It’s a Vivitek 5080. Decent midrange 1080p DLP.

Been very happy with it but as I say the 3D ain’t quite good enough......

Thanks for the advice
Gary
 

ktman

Member
Hi i too love 3D and had a few projectors to try at home i have now settled on the benq W2700i it has to me the best 3D since my LG65E6V oled and i run it in eco mode the brightness is amazing. the worst 3D projector i found for 3D was the epson 9400 to much crosstalk and horrible backgrounds in the image DLP 3D seems to be the best format for me anyway, good luck
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hi i too love 3D and had a few projectors to try at home i have now settled on the benq W2700i it has to me the best 3D since my LG65E6V oled and i run it in eco mode the brightness is amazing. the worst 3D projector i found for 3D was the epson 9400 to much crosstalk and horrible backgrounds in the image DLP 3D seems to be the best format for me anyway, good luck

DLP is king of 3D except for the crap contrast and blacks!
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
the worst 3D projector i found for 3D was the epson 9400 to much crosstalk and horrible backgrounds in the image DLP 3D seems to be the best format for me anyway, good luck
wow really ? thats unfortunate ! not that i think 3D changed much in the life of the 9000 series but I do think these projectors like the JVC need a bit of warm up time. this has certainly improved with the JVC across 3 gen i owned in x35 to x7000 to n7. but cant say same with 9400 as only seen them in action and likely already warmed up.

DLP is king of 3D except for the crap contrast and blacks!
definitely has its strength with 3D but yes the contrast and blacks are noticeable and even more so in 3D with the higher luminance projector usually pushed to
 

Gary Palmer

Standard Member
great advice folks

I’ve never seen 3D on an lcd so haven’t seen the crosstalk issue.

the benq is an interesting option. Great price !
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
great advice folks

I’ve never seen 3D on an lcd so haven’t seen the crosstalk issue.

the benq is an interesting option. Great price !
Cross talk is sample variation

my 9400 had average cross talk, my 9300 is nearly perfect.
I have a second 9300 I will test next week..

Not good to have crazy sample variation
 

rustyk21

Active Member
great advice folks

I’ve never seen 3D on an lcd so haven’t seen the crosstalk issue.

the benq is an interesting option. Great price !

For what it's worth, I wasn't trying to turn it into a DLP v LCD issue, but it in the ideal world I think you really need to try a modern DLP against a modern LCD. At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding.

For 3d only, put it this way. Unless you stack 2 projectors, you're talking about active 3d, not passive. DLP pixel response times are orders of magnitude faster than any LCD, be it VA, IPS, TN, LCOS etc. etc. It's not even a contest, even the latest Sony's have crosstalk too : Sony VPL-VW590ES 4K SXRD Projector Review & Comments

When I bought my OLED TV, all the reviews said that is was a perfect 3d image with no crosstalk.. Well, it does have crosstalk because passive filters aren't 100% efficient, nothing is.
I see people reviewing TVs and Projectors both professionally and privately and they all fall into the same trap, saying that the image is great with no noticeable crosstalk, when it is 100% there.

However, there are many other important factors in image quality, including colour accuracy, contrast, brightness etc. etc. Obviously this applies in 3d too.
It's possible, that an LCD will give you better brightness, better colours and a bit more crosstalk, but the net result is much better.

I think this is the biggest problem with projectors, they are so hard to see in action and a nightmare with returns due to bulb life etc. etc. Plus, the viewing environment is absolutely critical with projectors. The screen and room are as important (if not more so) than the projector itself.
 

Gary Palmer

Standard Member
Hey Rustyk21

Any advice and experience really helps, thank you.

I’ve been a really really long time DLP user (probably as long as TI made the chip)

back then the black level and contrast smashed murky/screen door LCD. Things have obviously moved on a hell of lot since then.

gut says jvc - wallet says might need a compromise which is where your advice is so valuable

cheers
Gary
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Hey Rustyk21

Any advice and experience really helps, thank you.

I’ve been a really really long time DLP user (probably as long as TI made the chip)

back then the black level and contrast smashed murky/screen door LCD. Things have obviously moved on a hell of lot since then.

gut says jvc - wallet says might need a compromise which is where your advice is so valuable

cheers
Gary

compromise = epson 9300 £1k or 9400 £2k
gut = jvc n series £5k+

if u want to escape most compromises, go JVC imo.
 

AndyC_772

Active Member
Consider availability before setting your heart on any particular model.

I would have liked to check out a JVC before settling on the Sony, but it simply wasn't possible. Out of stock everywhere, and no in-store demos because Covid.

IMHO 3D seems if anything less demanding of the viewing environment than 2D. The darkening effect of the 3D glasses seems to improve the perceived contrast ratio.
 

rustyk21

Active Member
Hey Rustyk21

Any advice and experience really helps, thank you.

I’ve been a really really long time DLP user (probably as long as TI made the chip)

back then the black level and contrast smashed murky/screen door LCD. Things have obviously moved on a hell of lot since then.

gut says jvc - wallet says might need a compromise which is where your advice is so valuable

cheers
Gary

You're right that things have moved on, but unfortunately it's not necessarily in the way you'd expect.

For example, the latest DLP chips (that support wobulation/4K) actually have lower native contrast than the old darkchips that only supported 1080p.
Also, the wobulation mechanism can make an annoying humming noise like an old fridge. But, you will get an incredibly sharp 4k image, sharper than the Epson's pixel shift tech.

That's why I tentatively suggested that it might be worth checking out the 1080p Laser DLP models that can downscale 4k to 1080p. You'll get great 3d and if you watch 2d, you'll still get a better experience from downscaling high bitrate 4k to 1080p with higher contrast.
 

Gary Palmer

Standard Member
compromise = epson 9300 £1k or 9400 £2k
gut = jvc n series £5k+

if u want to escape most compromises, go JVC imo.
I think that
You're right that things have moved on, but unfortunately it's not necessarily in the way you'd expect.

For example, the latest DLP chips (that support wobulation/4K) actually have lower native contrast than the old darkchips that only supported 1080p.
Also, the wobulation mechanism can make an annoying humming noise like an old fridge. But, you will get an incredibly sharp 4k image, sharper than the Epson's pixel shift tech.

That's why I tentatively suggested that it might be worth checking out the 1080p Laser DLP models that can downscale 4k to 1080p. You'll get great 3d and if you watch 2d, you'll still get a better experience from downscaling high bitrate 4k to 1080p with higher contrast.
wobulation ... sounds like my belly

So are the native 4K DLP laser models the compromise ?

Thank you to all for your guidance!!
 

iamsludge

Active Member
Not weird to love 3D :D

I think 4K is a significant downgrade from 3D myself (on a big screen).

I still love 3D on my old JVC X3 which isn’t a light cannon - but yes I do have to warm it up to reduce/remove crosstalk. I sometimes do this by watching a 2d movie first. When I watch something like Prometheus in 3D with a 10 foot wide image I can feel like a millionaire.

Coming from a JVC, personally I intend to stick with JVC when I upgrade if budget at the time allows. Otherwise I’ll be checking out Epson.

andy’s comment about the glasses improving contrast is something I have noticed too. I find I get a better picture in 3D than I do 2D - in part due to the glasses acting like improved room treatment. You have the projector putting out more lumens but the darkening effect of the glasses counteracts that and you end up with a better image Imho.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
I think that

wobulation ... sounds like my belly

So are the native 4K DLP laser models the compromise ?

Thank you to all for your guidance!!
they wobble their mirrors :D

laser... isnt a panacea... have limited life when goes kaput so does the PJ its not light output is massively more calibrated :)

I still love 3D on my old JVC X3 which isn’t a light cannon - but yes I do have to warm it up to reduce/remove crosstalk. I sometimes do this by watching a 2d movie first. When I watch something like Prometheus in 3D with a 10 foot wide image I can feel like a millionaire.
love Prometheus in 3D ... its a great example of movie in 3D that doesnt go for gimmick and things popping out to your nose :D more adding the sense of depth... 3rd dimension that far projectors screen can benefit from. the beauty of a projector with 3D is it can be truly immersive .... something 3D on panel TVs just couldn't manage and hence why never took off...
 

panman40

Distinguished Member
they wobble their mirrors :D

laser... isnt a panacea... have limited life when goes kaput so does the PJ its not light output is massively more calibrated :)


love Prometheus in 3D ... its a great example of movie in 3D that doesnt go for gimmick and things popping out to your nose :D more adding the sense of depth... 3rd dimension that far projectors screen can benefit from. the beauty of a projector with 3D is it can be truly immersive .... something 3D on panel TVs just couldn't manage and hence why never took off...

it may sound daft but I absolutely loved 3D on my old Samsung D6900 plasma 😃.

@Gary Palmer I’ve been into 3D since 2008. I started off with a cheap Optoma 141x DLP which had great crosstalk free 3D and the darkening of the glasses helped with contrast and black levels. Motion was the best I’ve had on any projector.
I then moved onto Sony’s then my first Epson 9300, I was actually at first disappointed in contrast ratio and it also had some crosstalk moreso than my Sony HW65. The good thing about the 9300 was having a medium lamp setting, 3d brightness was pretty good. I do know for a fact that crosstalk on those Epsom’s was unit to unit pot luck, even the main man from 3DFA in the usa returned his and received one without crosstalk and he obviously knows a thing or two about 3D!.

I have also read several owners are very pleased with 3D on their Epson 9400‘s and for the money and warranty in the uk plus bulbs are I think £100 a go it seems like a very good deal. Perhaps after lockdown you can get a demo.

my current JVC N5 has good contrast and almost crosstalk free 3D, it’s very rare I see any at all, however on some films I find 3D a little dim in low lamp but high lamp I find to noisy ( that’s all projectors I’ve had) but something like final destination 4 in 3D was loads bright enough in low lamp the other night, overall 3D motion if it’s not to fast paced is good on the N5 but if you don’t mind a little soap opera effect it can be smoothed out by using clear motion drive.

good luck with what you choose!.
 

jacobe

Active Member
I actually own one of the Optoma lasercannons @rustyk21 is refering to, the ZH403 which is identical to but cheaper than the HZ40. I can confirm that it KILLS anything else in 3D, but also that it does have rather bad blacks in 2D, and while I never saw RBE on my previous DLP's, I do on the Optoma.

It's a bit of a handful, getting a great image takes a little effort and I strongly suggest using calibration discs, but once you've nailed it it's actually pretty impressive.
 

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