3D proj: JVC X5000 versus Epson EH-TW9400

Diddern

Active Member
SDR is generally always more dynamic on projectors than HDR, due to the fact that most people run projectors brighter in HDR mode, anyway it will always be SDR as the options is SDR source or HDR source converted to a SDR display, even the best JVC projectors is SDR, or medium dynamic range projectors, a reference CRT projector is a significantly more dynamic projector type, its just not suited for much more than 100"

Question, what would you chose.

Electrohome Marquee 9500, 1080P 72hz on a 100" studiotek 130, max 18fl and 400000:1 on off contrast.

Epson TW9400 1080P same screen around 65fl max and a 3500:1 on off contrast.

Tonemapping done in Mad VR.

Forget about price size and setup, just pure image performance question.

And tell me why you chose what.
A correct adjusted image on Electrohome Marquee 9500, 1080P 72hz on a 100" studiotek 130, max 18fl and 400000:1 +++ on-off contrast. It will look stunning in dynamic and I know I will love it.

This is a hard one to answer for me. Because I know the weakness and the strong sides with both.
Also one of them takes 1 minute to get perfect and the other one takes LONG time.
But you know that I love dark scenes, and then not hard :) . I could easily take the Marquee 9500, but you must have done the work with the CRT adjustments lol. I have seen yours when it was up and running and I liked that image really much.
 
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Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Bigger screen = less dynamic range/ less contrast. You guys know its not just about the size. But how you use it.. right?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Bigger screen = less dynamic range/ less contrast. You guys know its not just about the size. But how you use it.. right?
you know its not just about contrast and dynamic range.. its about size? right..?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member

lets forget projection and all pickup one of these!
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
you know its not just about contrast and dynamic range.. its about size? right..?
What is the right size for a projector, lets say it can focus from 60" to 180" what parameters would you look at to reach the best compromise.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
What is the right size for a projector, lets say it can focus from 60" to 180" what parameters would you look at to reach the best compromise.

Bigger the better :D So I feel like I'm at the cinema. :))) :D :D

As @Luminated67 said tbh... biggest we can fit :)
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Bigger the better :D So I feel like I'm at the cinema. :))) :D :D

As @Luminated67 said tbh... biggest we can fit :)
So your fine with 12fl and 800:1 contrast and pixels with stamp size, and a pixel grid where you could locate speakers without disturbing the pilels, as long as its big?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
So your fine with 12fl and 800:1 contrast and pixels with stamp size, and a pixel grid where you could locate speakers without disturbing the pilels, as long as its big?

Strids u like ur postage stamps
i like my big cinema screens :D

u would love my iphone X its got amazing contrast
good hdr
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Strids u like ur postage stamps
i like my big cinema screens :D

u would love my iphone X its got amazing contrast
good hdr
I hear what your saying, but for that purpose ill likely pick another phone, and as we are discussing projectors i find it more relevant to keep it inside the actual image quality and size limitations of projectors, personally i run a neutral gain white screen, as anything else is a compromise. Its 110" 16:9, thats about the size where if i pass that i loos to much image quality, i fully follow the big wow feeling, calibrated multiple setups like that, and while it looked ok on a 4m wide screen, a JVC N7 looked boring compared to a JVC X3 on a 90" screen, on raw image quality.

So you might get a bright projector that lights up a big screen, but it will be low dynamic range, and converting HDR to LDR is harder than converting from HDR to SDR.

Now you should see the screen on my Samsung Galaxy S21, but dont you think we should take that topic in the smartphone section of this forum?
 
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ask4me2

Active Member
The viewing distance is also an important part of enjoying a good projected picture. If you like to view movies like they have in commercial cinemas, the nearest viewing distance to the screen is typical 1.5x the screen height (2.35:1) out to 3-4x at the rows at the back.
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
I could easily take the Marquee 9500

Only if you had a couple of strong friends with you!!!!

I recall years back having a discussion with a home insurance loss adjuster over an old Barco. It may have cost me ~£600 but the original value was something like £30k and technically should have been insured for that!!!

I challenged the guy to move it and he quickly conceded that it wasn't at risk from theft :rotfl:
 

Alaric

Well-known Member
What is the right size for a projector, lets say it can focus from 60" to 180" what parameters would you look at to reach the best compromise.

Depends on how close you sit and how many people the room is set-up for.

I recall digging into this in my 2nd cinema and there are IDEALS within the specs from things like Dolby and the ISF that cover this. There are also ideals for speaker position to get the right kind of sound and movement and immersion.

You know what i found. Cinema is always a compromise and it comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice and there isn't a perfect answer...,,,,and that's regardless of cash, you just get different problems.

I will say that i get great immersion, awesome picture and excellent sound from my set-up.

Screen 120" 16:9 acoustic transparent 1.0 gain
Seating 12' (3.65) from the screen (front row, double layzboy)
Projector ceiling mounted 14' (4.25m) from the screen
Back row is under the projector and 3 flip posh cinema seats
All seats on a floating stepped platform, which helps rear visibility and for tactile stuff
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
You know what i found. Cinema is always a compromise and it comes down to what you are willing to sacrifice and there isn't a perfect answer...,,,,and that's regardless of cash, you just get different problems.
Always compromises...but I have found rule of thirds usually works well for audio and video ,,, makes sure don’t sit with back to the wall and an unnecessarily large screen... also thx recommended 41.5 deg viewing angle for immersion works well...both these in combination peg down where sit in the room and then size of screen need !
will say that i get great immersion, awesome picture and excellent sound from my set-up.

Screen 120" 16:9 acoustic transparent 1.0 gain
Seating 12' (3.65) from the screen (front row, double layzboy)
Projector ceiling mounted 14' (4.25m) from the screen
Back row is under the projector and 3 flip posh cinema seats
Great to hear ! See I run a much smaller screen but sit at 2.8m for the exact same thx recommend angle as your self for immersion ! :D same immersion different screens :) my projector is mounted at 4.5m from 1.1 gain screen ... different strokes ...

and I care not for a bigger screen given immersion I have, as am sure given what say you are very happy too...

if I was sitting at 3.65m I would do exactly same as you

i don’t think it’s a case of go the biggest screen possible... I think it’s a case of immersion looking for.... And how to best use the room :)
 

Diddern

Active Member
Only if you had a couple of strong friends with you!!!!

I recall years back having a discussion with a home insurance loss adjuster over an old Barco. It may have cost me ~£600 but the original value was something like £30k and technically should have been insured for that!!!

I challenged the guy to move it and he quickly conceded that it wasn't at risk from theft :rotfl:
Today I would say that picking a CRT is far from what people would do. There are so many things that you must know and learn. After that, you must have calibration on it. And you need good equipment also. Like you say you need a good friend that has to live with you for a week to get it perfect or more. :)

I can almost guaranty that Strids will not recommend a CRT to anyone coming in the market today.

But when we talk picture values a CRT has many nice sides, like the dark side of the image, also other stuff like handling with color and how it makes the image.

The bright side will be another story when it comes to the ability to show off bright scenes combined with black. But far from bad. What I try to point out here, its not always the brightest image that look the best. There are a lot of factors.

Everyone today want it easy and simple. Quick setup and then watch movie.
That can digitals do, but you have to understand digitals also need adjustments, and the right things done to get the perfect image. So even if its plug and play, you need to understand that the image is not perfect even if you like it :)
 
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Luminated67

Distinguished Member
^CRTs are not for the novice or probably most home cinema enthusiasts, they require knowledge way beyond what most are willing to learn.
 

Blagmeister

Active Member
So I have the opportunity to choose between a JVC x5000 and a Epson TW-9400

Both second-hand, but the Epson still has some warranty. Usage will be mainly movies from 4K Blu-ray and Apple TV - occasional 3D Blu-ray. Small room - 2.5m x4.5m (converted single garage - see pic). Small window - will have a black-out blind.

I’ve gone through the thread but it’s done my head in! Still can’t decide. Any straightforward input appreciated.
 

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Alaric

Well-known Member
So I have the opportunity to choose between a JVC x5000 and a Epson TW-9400

Both second-hand, but the Epson still has some warranty. Usage will be mainly movies from 4K Bl-ray and Apple TV - occasional 3D Blu-ray. Small room - 2.5m x4.5m (converted single garage - see pic). Small window - will have a black out blind.

I’ve gone through the thread but it’s summer my head in! Still can’t decide. Any straightforward input appreciated.

You probably want to look at hanging some black velvet on those walls, maybe as curtains if the room is multi use. The light reflection off the walls will hamper any contrast

Relatively small screen so you should have plenty of light output either way. It depends if you want the higher contrast and bulb costs of the JVC or the flexibility, warranty and higher output for HDR of the Epson.

Both will probably do you well. Can you see either in action first?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
So I have the opportunity to choose between a JVC x5000 and a Epson TW-9400

Both second-hand, but the Epson still has some warranty. Usage will be mainly movies from 4K Bl-ray and Apple TV - occasional 3D Blu-ray. Small room - 2.5m x4.5m (converted single garage - see pic). Small window - will have a black out blind.

I’ve gone through the thread but it’s summer my head in! Still can’t decide. Any straightforward input appreciated.
How many hours on x5000?
That’s a big cost factor
If you game input lag is terrible
If you are not going to treat your room the Epson will probably be more flexible

Otherwise jvc
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Both will probably do you well. Can you see either in action first?
that should be a decider. both will need a pro calibration to do best i think :) and something id factor in if op is considering to plow some of the savings of buying 2nd hand into optimising for room and setuo

certainly as suggested be best to optimise the room the best can aswell :)
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
So I have the opportunity to choose between a JVC x5000 and a Epson TW-9400

Both second-hand, but the Epson still has some warranty. Usage will be mainly movies from 4K Bl-ray and Apple TV - occasional 3D Blu-ray. Small room - 2.5m x4.5m (converted single garage - see pic). Small window - will have a black out blind.

I’ve gone through the thread but it’s done my head in! Still can’t decide. Any straightforward input appreciated.

If you intend to use this exclusively as a home cinema room then you should checking out what I did with my home cinema room as it might give you ideas as to how to treat the walls and ceiling without breaking the bank.

As already mentioned the JVC has the better black levels and because it's got a lower light output you would want to stick with a white screen with it, the Epson's superior light output would allow to switch to a grey screen that will not only benefit it's blacks and get it closer to the JVC but allow you to watch stuff with some light in the room (very low lumen) and still get a decent picture.

Second-hand without warranty is always a gamble so keep this in mind and as @alebonau mentioned you should allow for a proper calibration to be done on either machine to achieve the best results.
 

Blagmeister

Active Member
You probably want to look at hanging some black velvet on those walls, maybe as curtains if the room is multi use. The light reflection off the walls will hamper any contrast

Relatively small screen so you should have plenty of light output either way. It depends if you want the higher contrast and bulb costs of the JVC or the flexibility, warranty and higher output for HDR of the Epson.

Both will probably do you well. Can you see either in action first?
Yes - the current plan is for velvet round a 100in acoustically transparent screen.

Room will essentially be dedicated - so no movie viewing without lights off and blind down. with very rare use as a spare bedroom - hence sofa bed.

I want as good contrast/black level as I can but the wife wouldn’t let me go darker on the walls - so I fear it has compromised the room in that regard. I also enjoy HDR - so would the Epson do a better job?
 

Blagmeister

Active Member
If you intend to use this exclusively as a home cinema room then you should checking out what I did with my home cinema room as it might give you ideas as to how to treat the walls and ceiling without breaking the bank.

As already mentioned the JVC has the better black levels and because it's got a lower light output you would want to stick with a white screen with it, the Epson's superior light output would allow to switch to a grey screen that will not only benefit it's blacks and get it closer to the JVC but allow you to watch stuff with some light in the room (very low lumen) and still get a decent picture.

Second-hand without warranty is always a gamble so keep this in mind and as @alebonau mentioned you should allow for a proper calibration to be done on either machine to achieve the best results.
Thanks. Not sure I’ll be able to get room repainted but I’ll check out your post for ideas.

Agree on calibration. I got Vincent at HDTV Test to calibrate my OLED so would do they same for my projector.
 

Blagmeister

Active Member
How many hours on x5000?
That’s a big cost factor
If you game input lag is terrible
If you are not going to treat your room the Epson will probably be more flexible

Otherwise jvc
1500 hours on the x5000. Claims 3000 left on eco mode. Will most likely stick to gaming on the OLED in the TV room.
 

Blagmeister

Active Member
You probably want to look at hanging some black velvet on those walls, maybe as curtains if the room is multi use. The light reflection off the walls will hamper any contrast

Relatively small screen so you should have plenty of light output either way. It depends if you want the higher contrast and bulb costs of the JVC or the flexibility, warranty and higher output for HDR of the Epson.

Both will probably do you well. Can you see either in action first?
Yes - JVC is an hour away - could see tonight. Haven't asked about Epson but it's over an hour away in the other direction.
 

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