3D Passive or Active Shutter??

BarryMcKelvey

Formerly 'hybridtheory'
Hi

I was wondering if passive or active shutter 3D give a better 3D experience. I've been to the cinema a few times, obviously wearing the passive 3D glasses. I'd been to the Panasonic roadshow two years ago where they'd showed a few 3D clips. In my experience I'd found that the active shutter 3D glasses gave a much better 3D experience.

Baz
 

golly99

Active Member
Each person is different really, personally I prefer to be more comfortable for the sake of a slight loss in resolution, so passive is far more practical. Heard tales of people not able to watch more than 10 mins with the active shutter system, but as I say I'm sure everyone is different, have a few demos and see which you prefer.
 

AdrianMills

Well-known Member
It'll also depend somewhat on the size of the screen and your viewing distance so try to demo as close to what you'd expect to have at home.
 

RiGoRmOrTiS

Novice Member
I can't stand active shutter. Ghosting, Flickering, Lack of brightness, Expensive, Charging, Restrictive Viewing Angles, Headaches, Eye strain... what if you're epileptic with that flicker? it's known to trigger seizures in people who were never known to be epileptic all their lives..

When reading threads where people are talking about different 3D movies they have seen recently on their active shutter systems; they are saying things like "Movie A" was great but there was too much ghosting on "Movie B"; someone else will then reply saying "Movie B" was ok for me but "Movie A" had ghosting.

and thats on the really good systems; some people mention having ghosting all the time at varying degrees.

With passive; both of those movies will look perfectly fine! for everyone; at almost any normal viewing angle.

People keep saying passive is "half resolution" but don't listen to them. You are losing resolution, that's for sure. But to say half is misleading. You are seeing 540p per eye; at all times (both eyes are always open unlike active shutter) Since both eyes are open at the same time, thats 1080p. But as I said; there is still a loss of resolution, because each eye sees every other line (540p per eye). Think of it more like an interlaced video.

Also the mathematics of what resolution you see needs to be conditional and changes from frame to frame...

if an image in the scene is at a depth which is neither behind or above the frame; its going to be pixel for pixel identical in both the left and right images used to give you the depth perception. Both eyes can see these. Meaning that particular object is at full 1080p. If an object is then given depth; it will move apart in the left and right frame; meaning they are split line by line (540p per eye).

Every part of the frame will differ depending on depth... So in an overall frame you're probably losing much less than half the resolution.

I think i've made sense. its hard to explain without pictures ;)

I would say go to the high street. Try out one of the new LG Cinema 3D sets; then try out an active shutter system. See what you think. But don't let the "resolution" debate affect your choice of TV.
 
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keithinnate

Standard Member
sorry RiGoRmOrTiS but i went and viewed the lg 550t passive lg screen this week.. the picture did look poorer and the 3d did look pretty weak! in fact it looked that poor that i asked to have a look at the samsung active screen afterwards.. just to make sure i wasn't imagining it. or that the shop wasn't making it look that bad.

id agree that the comfort of viewing felt easier on the eyes than the active. but if the downtrade for that , was the poor 3d viewing experience i had.. then i would rather just not have the 3d side of it

oh, and i still got ghosting with that passive set too..
 

RiGoRmOrTiS

Novice Member
sorry RiGoRmOrTiS but i went and viewed the lg 550t passive lg screen this week.. the picture did look poorer and the 3d did look pretty weak! in fact it looked that poor that i asked to have a look at the samsung active screen afterwards.. just to make sure i wasn't imagining it. or that the shop wasn't making it look that bad.

id agree that the comfort of viewing felt easier on the eyes than the active. but if the downtrade for that , was the poor 3d viewing experience i had.. then i would rather just not have the 3d side of it

oh, and i still got ghosting with that passive set too..
The only way you can get ghosting on passive 3d is if your viewing the screen from above or below. That would also explain the lack of 3d depth you experienced.

Passive doesn't alternate the left & right frames to each eye. With active shutter 3D; ghosting comes from the left and right frames overlapping. That is a sync issue and isn't technically possible on passive.

The only way you can see the left and right image mixing on passive is viewing the screen from a skewed angle; above or below the screen.

I thought there was a problem when I first went to view them; but as soon as I viewed the screen straight on it was fine, even from the sides. I tried Monsters vs Aliens; Tron and some random demo reel. all looked great. Zero ghosting, Zero Flicker and excellent brightness levels. The demo reel had water splashing in your face and it was right out of the screen; like the Disney 3D stuff in florida. Really impressive.

But to each his own I guess..
 
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panman40

Distinguished Member
sorry RiGoRmOrTiS but i went and viewed the lg 550t passive lg screen this week.. the picture did look poorer and the 3d did look pretty weak! in fact it looked that poor that i asked to have a look at the samsung active screen afterwards.. just to make sure i wasn't imagining it. or that the shop wasn't making it look that bad.

id agree that the comfort of viewing felt easier on the eyes than the active. but if the downtrade for that , was the poor 3d viewing experience i had.. then i would rather just not have the 3d side of it

oh, and i still got ghosting with that passive set too..
Have to agree with rigomortis here, I too have demoed several times now the LW550, The same demo material each time, This did look a bit soft so i took the demo disc home with me and put it on my PX990, This gave the same soft result but with Xtalk added for good measure:laugh:, You definately need to be at eye level with these passive sets;),
 

keithinnate

Standard Member
ahh that would explain it... the tv was on the floor & i was standing up. i did wonder how it could look like that!

so you can view it from any angle, as long as its straight on ( vertically ) well thats mismarketing then.. i mean how many TVS are perfectly straight on.. mine will be above a fireplace.. which is well above my sofa .. and im not going to lift my sofa to get my viewing angle straight! haha

cheers for the heads up
 

davidcharles

Well-known Member
active isn't as bad u make out rigormortis.... the lack of brightness is the same for passive ie the dim glasses, both easily cured by upping the backlight when viewing 3d material. Restrictive viewing angles are worse on passive...i can move around the room quite easliy with my active glasses and the picture holds up fine. Ghosting / xtalk is a problem for all 3d images. Yes it can be less noticable with passive BUT with the correct settings / glasses/ firmware for your tv, active can be just as good. I have had my tv for 4months and used 3d alot, the batteries are fine in both glasses so thats hardly an issue. The flickering is an odd one. If you just watch the tv and in a dim room everything is fine, you can't see any flicker. I do see flicker if you look at a bright window and not the tv but not sure why you would want to do that anyway. 3d games look great, 3d blurays pin sharp and sky 3d very good as well.... people do need to try both but theres a lot of negative about active that just isn't really an issue.
 

RiGoRmOrTiS

Novice Member
ahh that would explain it... the tv was on the floor & i was standing up. i did wonder how it could look like that!

so you can view it from any angle, as long as its straight on ( vertically ) well thats mismarketing then.. i mean how many TVS are perfectly straight on.. mine will be above a fireplace.. which is well above my sofa .. and im not going to lift my sofa to get my viewing angle straight! haha

cheers for the heads up
depends how extreme the angle is really. just above head height (like above a fireplace while sitting 3ft away is probably going to be fine. But standing above the TV, with it on the floor (or low stand) is practically a 75 degree viewing angle; don't know many people who stand right in front of their screen looking down at it :) You don't have to be exactly eye height; just not an extreme angle.

Good example is in a pub; they use passive sets and they are usually mounted up on the wall well above people's heads and the 3d still works fine... the viewing angle is more forgiving than you think. Just not "75 degree, nose pressed against the screen" forgiving

active isn't as bad u make out rigormortis....
I'm sure under perfect conditions its great. But thats the problem; it requires so much luck to get the right combination. The best combination of firmware; model of glasses, lighting conditions etc.. easier to get passive right.

Passive is always going to be brighter as well as they don't alternately block each eye or make every 3rd frame blank. The glasses allow more light through as well, it all adds up. Especially in dark movie scenes.

I tried 4 different active sets and in bright scenes I could see flickering and plenty of ghosting all round.

I don't want to sound like a tool; but I have very good vision; according to occupational health at work I'm in the top 2 percentile (whatever that means). Maybe that has something to do with seeing the flicker. Anyway! after only 10 mins viewing I felt dizzy and a little sick; my wife had a headache as well. I can only go off personal experience and I think 4 attempts was enough.. :)
 
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davidcharles

Well-known Member
horses for course i suppose ..... its nice to have the choice between active and passive ....
 

7hil

Well-known Member
Active! I have a Panny set with active glasses and I've seen very little ghosting and some of the most superb 3d ever with the most amazing detail. The loss of the full 1080p would be too costly for me with the passive technology.

End of the day a guy with an active set will scream "active" and a guy with a passive set will scream "passive". Get out there and make your own mind up.
 

jbamg55

Standard Member
I have an active 3d Panasonic plasma TV and I must say it is so amazing. Watching Avatar was so clear and crisp. The depth and feel was amazing with no crosstalk. So I go to Curry's one day and there is an LG passive 3d TV. I stand infront of it and put on the glasses and all I can say is it looked horrible the picture was blurry, I could see lines on the screen. So there you have it. I have solved it Active is amazing and Passive is just rubbish......................... then when I walked out I spotted a sofa with a passive 3d LG TV with about a 3 meter viewing distance. So I sat down put on the glasses and …...WOW I was gob smacked I have never felt so much depth and solid 3d perception ever. The picture was bright and vivid and I could not understand why it was the best 3D experience I have ever had. So I was on a mission to find out why it was so good and I have discovered it was Crosstalk. Passive gives you pretty much zero crosstalk which produces a solid 3d effect in all light contrasts. What many people dont understand is that when you see crosstalk ok it looks horrible and distracting it is actually reducing you 3d perception. Then when crosstalk disappears in well contrasted scene your 3d perception is heightend. It is this up and down which strains your eyes and reduces the overall 3d affect. So there you have it my advice buy a passive but you may have to buy a active first to understand the difference.
C.R.L
Crosstalk Ruins Lives
 

homeruk

Novice Member
Another active Panny 2011 active here, I love it, no problems for me.

Someone put poor viewing angles on active plasma ????? Sorry but passive has a much worse viewing angle of active plasma!
 

Jason Shouler

Novice Member
C.R.L
Crosstalk Ruins Lives
Spot on - your clever post nearly had me fooled :smashin:

The other thing that gets me is some people's preoccupation with image sharpness. Sure, active may well produce the sharper image when displaying Full HD 3D but what's the use of that if you haven't established a solid 3D image field (as you say you need next to zero x-talk to establish that properly).

Get the basics right first before concentrating on the finer points like image sharpness (in practice I rarely even consider it anyway :rolleyes:)

I'm guessing you were standing above the vertical sweet spot when viewing that first passive set which is the most common problem with store demo's.
 

jbamg55

Standard Member
yep standing fairly close and above it. Did not do it justice! just need to sell my plasma to get a passive I really cant wait to play 3d games on a passive as on a active it is just plagued with crosstalk.

You are very right about fine tuning resolution when the 3d effect inst even perfected?
 

Dave2

Well-known Member
It all depends on the perspective of the person buying , for me passive was better on sports for me but i prefer movies on active as a nice smooth clear image is my main looking point for my decision on buying a TV.

You have to ask the main question to your self and to answer it iss for you to go demo a few and dont be shy to take your own stuff, put a SBS movie or something on a usb stick or take a 3D movie if you have one. You want to test each type of TV for minimum of 10 mins see how you are with active or passive even 3D in general.

Samsung, panasonic, sony for active and toshiba and LG for the passive those are you best bet.

To me its like somone saying the PS3 has better graphics because it uses blu-ray but a PC uses dvd-rom and that has 20x better graphics that a ps3 or xbox.

just remember only your brain and eyes will tell you what it will prefer :)
 

Dave2

Well-known Member

jbamg55

Standard Member
seriously though cant wait for samsungs active passive sets (passive tech with 1080 served to each eye). probably different thread though lol
 

Jason Shouler

Novice Member
just remember only your brain and eyes will tell you what it will prefer :)
..but not always the right answer ;)

Many people I'm sure end up with active sets because on a quick demo the active can indeed appear sharper.

Unfortunately as jbamg points out, creating a solid 3D field is far more important than sharpness - especially when it comes to viewing for extended periods - and that's the major strength of near zero cross-talk passive sets.

It's not difficult to figure :)

Check out how many posters complain about 3D on their passive set and you wont find any. The two technologies are fundamentally different and it's that fact that should be understood and certainly not glossed over as if it's of no consequence.
 

Ditchers

Standard Member
Having owned both an active (Panasonic) and passive (LG) tv, I would say Passive has the edge in terms of 3D in my personal opinion.

The 3D effects and depth seem far more pronounced with passive, plus zero flickering and crosstalk and ease of use/comfort of glasses make it a winner for me.
 

Mr_Grinch

Member
Passive is easier on the eyes and has less cross talk, but being roughly 5% of my watched content is 3D I'm sticking to a Plasma Active set. I'm just a bigger fan of plasma over LCD and in honesty the difference between a GOOD active set and a passive set is minimal (other than cost of glasses).

Also passive has pretty much 0 cross talk but still suffers ghosting, depending on your eyes and the source (if your brain can't put the images together you'll get ghosting, I see it in the cinema too).

It's such a shame passives demo badly due to the unfriendly angle, they really need them on the demo walls.
 

Jason Shouler

Novice Member
Also passive has pretty much 0 cross talk but still suffers ghosting, depending on your eyes and the source (if your brain can't put the images together you'll get ghosting, I see it in the cinema too).
This is true and of course is the same for any 3D display system.

You call it 'ghosting' and I call it IPF (to avoid confusion since many people consider cross-talk & ghosting to be the same thing).

You can see it in the real world too - just hold a pencil on the end of your nose :D
 

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