3d av amps and recievers

C

cinema-man

Guest
Hi to all

just wondering how many of us will be upgrading to 3D av amps or recievers,even if people buy 3D led tvs and 3D blu-ray players,there still going to need a 3D av amp or reciever if they want to have the hd audio.(dts master audio and dolby true hd.)as the new 3D av amp or reciever will need to be hdmi 1.4 compatable,to send the signal through to the tv.

Anyone know of what 3D av amps or recievers will be available soon.

regards cinema-man.
 

HugoFJH

Active Member
not bothered at all about 3d - went to a jvc demo recently and wasnt that impressed (their "standard" hi def projectors where stunning though lol)
 

rockstar6662

Active Member
I'm kind of interested in it but won't be in a position to consider the necessary equipment for a good few years yet.

I'm not convinced it'll be anything other than a niche market gimmick anyway, I mean blu-ray and even HD TV is still way off being mass market.

3D in the cinema is one thing but home something else entirely. You have to wear the glasses which dull the picture and wash out the colours and it's more tiring on the eyes so would be very much just an occasional thing for me based on what I've tried so far.

Besides, the only standard that's been agreed so far is the blu-ray one, the tv and av stuff is still very up in the air from an interview I was reading today with about 3 different technologies being proposed I believe. So I imagine it'll be quite some time before it's something even worth thinking about.

Early adopters are likely going to need an awful lot of money and risk being stuck with choosing the wrong system, yet again.

That's my view anyway. Give it a couple of years to sort itself out and we'll see.
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
I thought from other threads in the PJ section that the 3-D standard had been decided and that it would be available on HDMI 1.3 I think this is mainly to accomodate Sky and Sony with the PS3. I beleive Sony have even brought out a 3-D Blu-ray surround sound system!!
 

rockstar6662

Active Member
I thought from other threads in the PJ section that the 3-D standard had been decided and that it would be available on HDMI 1.3 I think this is mainly to accomodate Sky and Sony with the PS3. I beleive Sony have even brought out a 3-D Blu-ray surround sound system!!

I'm just going by an interview with the guys behind the format used for Avatar that I read on the BBC site today. Said the blu-ray standard was sorted but nothing else though they're trying to work with various companies to force a standard across the industry. Seemed to think it'd be a long time before a standard was agreed.

You're right that Sony have said a firmware update will enable the PS3 to play 3D over HDMI 1.3 (which is great as I have one, so that's one thing less to worry about) but others have said that's not possible and it needs 1.4, then others are saying you need an av amp with twin HDMI outs (and tv with twin in), then some systems use glasses that switch lenses on and off quickly while others use the polarised glasses but then there's two different types of polarisation used too it seems.

All very messy once again. Thank goodness the blu-ray / HD-DVD thing sorted itself out fairly quickly but doesn't sound like anyone's learned from that.
 

ukaudiophile

Active Member
Hi,

Thw whole situation with 3D si still very much up in the air right now, but the proposals I've read about coming out of CES sound like a recipe for guaranteed failure.

As far as I can tell it is theoretically possible to make a HDMI V1.3 connector handle 3D, Sony certainly seem confident they can do it with the PS3, which would suggest to me that HDMI 1.3 chipsets can handle 3D 1080P. The problem is that it is being suggested that HDMI 1.4 is going to be required for 3D, which means that if you're using an AV Receiver for your audio via HDMI you don't just need a new player and projector, but also receiver, and you can guarantee that for the first couple of years these will be in £2K+ territory.

If that is the case then I can't help but feel that adoption rates in the home will be very slow, especially as everyone will need the LCD shutter glasses at around £50 - £100 a pair. Surely the way that needs to be adopted is to sell 3D blu Ray players with dual HDMI outputs, a video out on 1.4 and an audio one running 1.3, so you can use a current receiver and integrate it into your 3D system, and the cost to add this to a Blu Ray player would be negligible.

I am hoping that my HTPC with a HDMI 1.3 output card can be upgraded to handle 3D, but until the projectors come down to the £4K arena for a 3D 1080P model, and the glasses work as well as those in an IMAX theater, along with plenty of 3D movies, then I will happily continue enjoying my current system without 3D.

In short, unless the entry price to get 3D in my system is under £4K for a 3D 1080P system, I'll leave it alone.

Best wishes,

Dave
 

dwhite

Distinguished Member
Although, I'm sure its possible to do 3d with HDMI 1.3, sky have done a demo with a normal skyHD box and that's not even 1.3. The manufacturers would like 1.4 to be a requirement, in order to make us upgrade and buy more boxes, they need to keep the market moving forward or they'll all go bust.

Saying that, I don't think 3d is the feature that is going to move the market that much, personally I think 3d will always remain a niche feature. I don't think the public really wants it, especially if glasses are required.
 

ukaudiophile

Active Member
Hello,

Although, I'm sure its possible to do 3d with HDMI 1.3, sky have done a demo with a normal skyHD box and that's not even 1.3. The manufacturers would like 1.4 to be a requirement, in order to make us upgrade and buy more boxes, they need to keep the market moving forward or they'll all go bust.

You're absolutely right :thumbsup: This is seen as another way of telling us to upgrade everything to get the next feature which they portray as being invaluable, but like you I just don't see 3D as being the incentive to get people to upgrade.

I can't help but think that many people are going to give 3D a miss, but the question does then become 'What is the next big breakthrough?'. most people I know have enough trouble accomodating 5.1 in their living room, let alone 7.1 or the 9.2 being advocated in the Audyssey DSX system, modern AV receivers have more power than most people will ever need and more decoding formats then most people use, and finally with TrueHD and DTS Master HD we have uncompressed multi channel audio, with 1080P screens and projectors, not to mention Blu Ray as a delivery mechanism, I think that home theater may well have hit the buffers for a long while to come, with only improvements in scalers, DSP and possibly displays to drive further purchases.

I am certainly troubled by the cynical idea of manufacturers moving everything to 1.4 for 3D just to drive further sales, maybe the market has run out of ideas? Maybe the customer is now demanding real, tangible improvements from their upgrades and these take longer to deliver than just another feature in the advertising blurb?

Best wishes,

Dave
 

SteveCritten

Distinguished Member
I think your right with 3-D TV not having a big take up. where the manufacturers are missing out is that it would probably be easier to develop 3-D for PJ's a lot cheaper. Then if 3-D PJ's were relatively cheap more people would buy them who wouldn't have considered them before. Just my opinion though!!
 

HugoFJH

Active Member
I mean blu-ray and even HD TV is still way off being mass market.

.

Sorry I couldnt get passed this - imo you couldnt be more wrong, ok BR isnt quite there but with lots of discs selling for £10-13 IN STORE its not that far off mass market (and with well over 1000 titles to chose from now, there is a wide selection)

HDTV IS mass market though, no question about it - it has been for several years (Im not talking 1080p as you would be right about that, but 720p is definitely HDTV and massmarket)

You are entitled to your opinion of course, I just had to say it


If new av amps are required with twin HDMI out and so forth - their main selling point will be 3d without a doubt (in the time frame being discussed there really isnt anything else that would be anything like a "must have" feature as much as 3d), and as stipulated to start with we will be talking about premium amps/recievers at around £2k each, but the glasses will probably be thrown in with the price , and with any large screen tv/ premium projector also I would have thought

I think 3D will be used as the main selling point and I wouldnt be surprised if for this reason alone they force the 2 hdmi's etc route (with sony somehow forced to back down - remember Sony av arm and PS are somehow different companies so in some ways it could be possible for it to cover both angles)
Playstation to show it can be done with HDMI 1.3 (maybe with limitiing factors) and AV company to go with the rest of the electronics companies and do "fully fledged" 3D with 1.4 and dual HDMI.

If it becomes internal fight in Sony, ONLY PS will win (due to money already invested, and imagine how many extra PS3's they would sell as that would make it cheap as chips to get into 3D from a player point of view at any rate), the interesting thing is though I wonder that if /when the PS3 is able to produce 3D, whether that means EVERY br player thats 1.3 is capable also (it has to be to a BR standard, they are all 1.3, and all BR players of this type HAVE to be firmware upgradable due to frequent updates etc). Not saying manufacturers would release the firmware, but it seems likely I would have thought. (obviously it still means that the display has to cope with the signal and display it properly)

In regards to splitting the 3d signal to 1.3 and 1.4 Im wondering if that would greatly complicate the HDMI handshake process that is rudimentary in this type of connection. I dont know enough about it Im just thinking aloud.
 
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rockstar6662

Active Member
Sorry I couldnt get passed this - imo you couldnt be more wrong, ok BR isnt quite there but with lots of discs selling for £10-13 IN STORE its not that far off mass market (and with well over 1000 titles to chose from now, there is a wide selection)

HDTV IS mass market though, no question about it - it has been for several years (Im not talking 1080p as you would be right about that, but 720p is definitely HDTV and massmarket)

You are entitled to your opinion of course, I just had to say it

Discs may be getting cheaper and there may be more titles available but in terms of take-up in the home, blu-ray is still a very minor market.

And just because people are buying HD or HD Ready TV's, how many of those are actually watching HD material on them? In the UK, very few I'd suggest with many people buying their new flatscreen HD TV thinking they'll suddenly get everything in HD just by plugging it in. Unless you have Sky HD, Virgin V+ (both at premium cost) or Freesat, the material just isn't there.

It will get there and having HD material on freeview will help but in my view we're a long way off HD being any kind of market standard.

I bet the only HD material being seen on most TV's is PS3 or Xbox 360 games.

But it's just my opinion and this thread is about 3D which I'm not sure will ever take off in the home or at least not for a very, very long time. But I'd be happy to be proved wrong. :thumbsup:
 

bobbymax

Well-known Member
I think your right with 3-D TV not having a big take up. where the manufacturers are missing out is that it would probably be easier to develop 3-D for PJ's a lot cheaper. Then if 3-D PJ's were relatively cheap more people would buy them who wouldn't have considered them before. Just my opinion though!!


I agree

I'd like a PJ but will hang fire to see how/if they devolop 3D.

No way will I upgrade my existing gear for years yet (That cost me enough:D)
 

HugoFJH

Active Member
And just because people are buying HD or HD Ready TV's, how many of those are actually watching HD material on them? In the UK, very few I'd suggest with many people buying their new flatscreen HD TV thinking they'll suddenly get everything in HD just by plugging it in. Unless you have Sky HD, Virgin V+ (both at premium cost) or Freesat, the material just isn't there.

Actually it IS about the hardware first - it has to be, and while we know it isnt quite as good upscaled DVD on a hdtv will look alot better than even upscaled dvd on a non hdtv imo - anyway you are right we are getting side tracked :)
 

cebs_uk

Well-known Member
I think someone will just make a hdmi splitter, 1 in and 2 tow (audio/video) that you can stick after your amp and then fed where you like.
 

SBanga

Well-known Member
If that is the case then I can't help but feel that adoption rates in the home will be very slow, especially as everyone will need the LCD shutter glasses at around £50 - £100 a pair.

I very much think this will be the limiting factor with the 3D roll out. Why would I pay the cost of 6-7 extra pairs of glasses for when friends come round when most of the time they'll be sat in a drawer, redundant? Especially considering there will be so little actual native 3D content around and sitting off axis would yield poor results. Plus, I don't believe wearing bulky glasses through an epic such as LOTR would be very comfortable.
 

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