3802 - using my Primare A30.1 for front speakers?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by dave48, Mar 9, 2002.

  1. dave48

    dave48
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    I'm finally making the transition to multi-channel - from the starting point of Primare A30.1 integrated amp and Jamo Concert 8 speakers.

    I can't afford the Primare P30 processor and A30.5 amps, so the current favourite is the Denon 3802 (which anyway seems to be a lot more flexible than the Primare).

    Is there an easy way of using the Primare to drive the front loudspeakers (which are going to stay as the Concert 8's for a while)? I presume I can use the Denon pre-out feeding into one of the Primare inputs for the front speakers - but as the Primare is an integrated amp, it means the signal will be passing through 2 pre-amps (and I'll have to wind the volume of the Primare right up, which may be dangerous if I forget and switch over to CD or something).

    Is it possible to route the front speaker out via the multi-zone facility, so I can drive the Primare from this?

    Or am I missing an obvious solution to this - I'm sure I'm not the only person who wants to keep a reasonable 2 channel set-up for CDs etc. whilst using the same loudspeakers for multi channel.

    Dave48
     
  2. buns

    buns
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    I use a similar set up.......certainly the primare will sound alot better, the jamo's are a tough load, im pretty sure that the denon wouldnt be at its best driving them!

    I just have the front channel preout routed to my integrated 'aux' input. Each time i watch a film i just switch the intehrated to aux and set the volume to the 12 oclock position.

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  3. G.M

    G.M
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    I'm using the Primare A30.1 with the Denon 10se A/V Amp.
    Connect the front pre-outs on the Denon to the Aux input on
    the Primare. Try and buy or borrow a Sound Pressure Level
    Meter to set everything up properly with the test tones on the
    Denon. I set the Primare at 50 on the LED display when I'm using
    with the Denon.
     
  4. dave48

    dave48
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    Which speakers are you using with your Primare A30.1 / Denon 10SE setup?

    Apart from the Concert 8's I've only got a pair of fairly old Mordant Shorts (MS20 I think) and an equally old pair of Wharefdale Diamonds from my first "HiFi" many years ago. These are probably going to sound pretty bad in comparison with the decent speakers, as well as having quite different characters.

    I fear I will need to go shopping again.

    Dave48
     
  5. G.M

    G.M
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    I'm using a pair of Living Voice Auditoriums for fronts, Ruark
    Dialogue 1 for centre and Ruark Prologues for rears and a REL
    Storm subwoofer. The only reason I've still got the Ruark centre
    is because Living Voice don't have a centre channel yet and
    seemingly it's the nearest sonic match at present I can achieve.
     
  6. dave48

    dave48
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    I am strongly considering a Rel Storm III as a future upgrade.

    The main problem with this plan is that here in Germany there are practically no Rel dealers at all - the nearest ones are miles away [if any dealers happen to be reading this and you are located anywhere near Frankfurt / Mainz / Heidelberg / Mannheim please let me know!].

    Also the list price is (even more) expensive than back in the UK - so it's not always rip-off Britain. The only place here where I could get them for a reasonable price is from an Internet dealer - but this doesn't seem to be an authorised Rel retailer - so presumably no guarantee ....

    Dave48

    P.S. the Concert 8's are a bit light in the bass department so I think I am going to have to get a Sub.
     
  7. G.M

    G.M
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    I've never been on REL's website, but manufacturers usually
    have a worldwide dealer list on their websites. It may be worth
    checking out.
    Just out of curiosity, what CD player, DVD player, interconnects
    and speaker cable are you using in your system?
     
  8. dave48

    dave48
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    CD player is Primare D.20

    DVD player is supposed to be a Sony DVP-NS900 - but it hasn't arrived yet and I fear it never will [I had thought about the Primare V.10 but (a) it is quite pricey in comparison, (b) it has neither SACD nor DVD-A and no possibility for upgrade so I'm worried it will become obsolete rapidly].

    Interconnects are Primare PrimeLink and Viper-something-or-other.

    Loudspeaker cables are HMS Sinfonia (probably only known in Germany - and chosen as the result of extensive auditioning). Only prob. is that I can't afford using this cable for all my loudspeaker runs, it is quite pricey.

    I had already tried Rel's website - which is when I realised how few dealers there are in Germany compared to the UK.

    Dave48
     
  9. buns

    buns
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    I thought the concert 8's were quite good for depth, given their size. But then again nothing quite matches a sub! The storm is a good choice, its my fave toy!

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    ps. The Ms20i are very good! They can be somewhat lacking in bass but they are very accurate and easy to listen to, they may not match the jamo's but they would do ok as a stop gap.
     
  10. dave48

    dave48
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    The bass on the Concert 8's is ok if you really wind the volume up - it seems to magically appear from nowhere. The problem with this is my neighbours .... I am hoping that a decent sub will give me low bass without having to have "excessive" volume.

    This is also why I'm more keen on a "HiFi" sub than a A/V sub - the sound of too many thermonuclear explosions is just likely to get me evicted .... at least try and get some semblance of control and subtelty to the bass.

    Dave48
     
  11. buns

    buns
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    it might seem more controlled.....but my more controlled has all but managed to dilodge the ceiling below me......

    The bass thing might be down to the amp......i have the same problem......my amp isnt powerful enough so is not controlled and as it should be! Try and borrow a primare power amp and see what difference it makes......always worth a go!

    anyhow.....i'm glad to know i'm not the only one dull enough to stay in just to watch for posts on a saturday night! ;)

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  12. G.M

    G.M
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    When you auditioned interconnects/speaker cable did you try
    anything from the Chord co. range?
    I've found that the Chorus interconnect and the Odyssey Bi-wire
    Speaker cable improved the system quite dramatically.
    I don't know much about the Concert 8's you have, but if they're
    a hard load ie. 4 Ohm and less than 88 db/w you could try the
    A30.2 Power Amp and set up for Bi-amping.
     
  13. dave48

    dave48
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    I've got the slightly older A30.1 - which doesn't have any pre-outs. So no possibility for bi-amping. It was a bit frustrating that they made this update to the model after I bought it - and I greatly doubt that there is an update kit for the older version.

    Dave48
     
  14. G.M

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    The Chords I mentioned earlier I'm pretty sure would tighten up
    the bass in your system.
    Also, if your speakers are rear ported try and avoid placing them
    too close to walls as this can cause boomy bass.
    As for the Primare V10, it's a reasonable choice, but there are
    cheaper machines that offer more, for instance the Denon
    DVD-1600 offers DVD/Audio for £200 less than the Primare.
     
  15. dave48

    dave48
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    I'll hunt around and see if I can find a dealer in the area here who will let me do a home demo of the Chord interconnects / cables.

    I agree with your point about the Primare V10 being quite pricey for what it offers - this is exactly why I was hesitating about going for it in the first place. It would look nice with the rest of the Primare kit, but there's a limit to how much it is worth paying for that reason.

    In fact the choice of a DVD player is causing me quite a bit of grief - the Sony NS900 was the best match for what I was looking for, somehow everything else falls a bit short on paper in comparison.

    I am also a bit stuck on the SACD / DVD-A question - I'm sure this particular topic has already been flogged to death. The obvious answer is the Pioneer 747 - but searching around on the web you read reviews stating anything from it being the best thing since sliced bread, to being no better than average at anything it does.

    I am quite strongly interested in hi-res audio and multichannel audio - I am worried about ending up forking out for 3 separate players (DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD) - plus this would give me a problem on the Denon 3802 which has a single 7.1 line input (what do you do with the second multichannel input - would you have to buy / build a switch? Lots of cables and cost to get something that doesn't degrade the signal ....).

    Dave48
     
  16. G.M

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    The good thing about the V10 is that it's multi-region capable
    from the remote control. Picture quality is pretty average though.
    As for the Pioneer 747, a friend of mine is the manager of
    a Hi-Fi store and he's getting one in next week, so I'll have a
    listen and get back in touch.
    The road I was thinking about going down, was a combined
    DVD/A Player and a combined Cd/SACD Player. This would keep
    the box count down to two.
     
  17. dave48

    dave48
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    Sounds like the Primare is a no-go then - for me the picture quality is one of the key criteria. To be frank I'm not that fussed how well it plays CDs since I have the Primare D.20 already which does a fine job.

    I'd be very interested to hear the feedback on the 747.

    Since I already have a decent CD player, I'm very keen to keep the box count to something sensible, i.e. not 4 (cd + dvd-v + dvd-a + sacd) - this would be getting a bit over the top.

    Dave48
     
  18. G.M

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    The best thing to do when your interested in pieces of new kit
    is to try and get it home for a proper audition.
    There's been quite a few instances where I've listened in the
    store, liked it , got it home and it doesn't perform as well.
    It's an expensive mistake to make.
    As for buying a DVD player, Denon have a few interesting ones
    coming out shortly the DVD/A 3800 & the DVD-A1.
    There's also rumoured to be a new Primare DVD/A machine due
    for release soon.
     
  19. dave48

    dave48
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    Yes, the Denon 3800 looks potentially quite interesting (assuming that DVD-A is the way to go ....). The problem with this game is that the next product round the corner is always going to make much of the current generation obsolete - so it is too easy to postpone a purchase until the next dream player is on the market ....

    It seems a logical step for Primare to produce a DVD-A player - this is getting back closer to their audiophile roots (I was almost a little surprised that they produced DVD-V players). I dread to think what Primare's first DVD-A player will cost though ....

    Dave48
     
  20. G.M

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    Haven't managed to get a listen to Pioneer yet.
    Hopefully, getting one in next week, will post back to you on this
    thread.
    As for high end Primare DVD Player, looks like it's going to be around the £2000 region with similar CD performance to the
    D30.2 CD Player and called the V30.
    The Denon 3800 looks like an interesting alternative at £1000.
    Don't know when it's released in the UK/GERMANY?
    Managed to track down the Chords in your area for a listen yet?
     
  21. dave48

    dave48
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    Mmm the Primare V30 could be a very tempting proposition - it would go well with the A30.1 amp (although of course that is only any use for 2 channel sound). At least I could trade in my D20 since that would be surplus to requirements. £2,000 is not cheap though.

    Another possibility I have been considering is a Toshiba 900E - I know this is due to be replaced by the 950 soon, but the price of the 900E is now coming down to more reasonable levels.

    I haven't managed to find anyone near here who stocks Chord - I will need to do some more research on this.

    No sign of the Denon 3800 in Germany yet.

    Dave48
     
  22. G.M

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    Another area to improve your system if you haven't done so
    already, is mains cables.
    DNM solid core cables work well with Primare and are very
    reasonably priced as are their 4 way distribution blocks.
     
  23. dave48

    dave48
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    I've already done something similar - my dealer "talked" me into getting an HMS Energia 8-way adaptor and some Audio Agile mains cables. The adaptor has special filtering for the different sockets, e.g. if it is for Digital / Amplifier / Phono and so on.

    How huge a difference this had made - I don't really know. I ought to sit down and do some detailed comparisons some day with cheapo cables and adaptors to see if it was really money well spent!

    Do you have any more info on the spec of the Primare V30?

    Dave48
     
  24. G.M

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    No more info at the moment, may have more for you next week.
    My "source" is on holiday at moment.
    Have been on chords website (chord.co.uk) under worldwide
    dealers section there's an entry for Germany.
    Music Line Vertriebs GMBH, Phone No, 004 94105 640 500
    [email protected] hope it's of some use to you.
     
  25. G.M

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    Dave 48.
    Managed to have a listen to the Pioneer 747 Dvd player in A/V
    mode pretty impressive, very good video performance.
    You may be intrested to know that Primare have 2 new models due at the end of April. A new V10 and the V25 that replaces the V20.
     

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