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360 Racing game controller discussion

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
We've had a few situations of threads about racing games (Race Pro, Forza 3 etc.) going off topic, so this thread is really to discuss what controllers you prefer to use to race with and why. It can also be used to discuss specific controllers and their pros and cons. :thumbsup:
 

Morphies

Active Member
Firstly, over 19k posts. wow.

Now, Game controllers for racing. This for me is a tough one. I bought a steering wheel whilst playing MC:LA and absolutely loved it. Made the game so much more fun to play and you could really hammer the car around with a lot more precision than with a pad.

So, after a few hours I stuck Grid in. I wasn't as happy with the steering wheel on this as I had been on MC:LA. Drifting was superb, but I found it a little tetchy during some race types (f + GT series mainly).

So, onto a proper full on sim. Forza 2. After 45 minutes of constant swearing, disconnected it from the console. I absolutely hated it on forza. Damn near impossible to drive at speed in some sort of straight line and minor corrections to direction ended up in some over exagerated Top Gear Stunt Man style spin. And yes, I've messed with settings to no avail.

So in conclusion, I love the wheel and pedals for arcade type racers, but find the pad much more manageble for proper full on racing sims.

Essay over.
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
Firstly, over 19k posts. wow.

Now, Game controllers for racing. This for me is a tough one. I bought a steering wheel whilst playing MC:LA and absolutely loved it. Made the game so much more fun to play and you could really hammer the car around with a lot more precision than with a pad.

So, after a few hours I stuck Grid in. I wasn't as happy with the steering wheel on this as I had been on MC:LA. Drifting was superb, but I found it a little tetchy during some race types (f + GT series mainly).

So, onto a proper full on sim. Forza 2. After 45 minutes of constant swearing, disconnected it from the console. I absolutely hated it on forza. Damn near impossible to drive at speed in some sort of straight line and minor corrections to direction ended up in some over exagerated Top Gear Stunt Man style spin. And yes, I've messed with settings to no avail.

So in conclusion, I love the wheel and pedals for arcade type racers, but find the pad much more manageble for proper full on racing sims.

Essay over.

:D Yeah, I must say I do spend rather a lot of time on here.

Some good points there and I also wasn't a huge fan of Forza 2 with the MS wheel, but I think it's more down to the wheel itself than the game. GT5p on the PS3 for example is just superb with the G25 wheel and is much more fun to play than with the pad.

I must admit that overal I much prefer to use wheels for Simulations (on PC & PS3) and pads for arcade racers (Burnout, flatout, NFS etc.). I find that a wheel gives me a more realistic feel and allows for smoother cornering and better car control in a simulation (like GT5p or GTR2). Pads allow for quicker reactions needed in games such as Burnout Paradise.
 

Morphies

Active Member
I have the Logitec Drive FX.

I know where you're coming from, and would expect it to be the other way round, but for some reason it just isn't for me. Maybe it's the wheel, or simply player preference.

I find serious racing simulators more comfortable with the pad. And on the other hand I love being able to tear (gently of course) the wheel hard left then flick it back right into a huge drift dodging traffic in MC:LA. Maybe it's the satisfaction in knowing that this should be easier with a pad, but look I can do it with a wheel!

Either way, it's sat up on my shelf waiting for a decent racing game to come around. I always find my way back to those FPS's :)
 

thelegendofyrag

Active Member
I used a wheel once on the old TOCA games and enjoyed it but it felt a bit arcady with that particular game.

I haven't used one on the 360 yet. And don't think i will as i haven't got space to keep one really.

I would agree though that with a simulation a good wheel that gives a simulation feel would be great, there's no point though if the wheel doesnt feel right like Morphies said.

If your skillfull enough with a pad then i think you can easily compete with someone with a wheel.
 

Morphies

Active Member
Hmm, skills a good point.

I'm not sure it's so much being skillful enough with a pad to keep up with a wheel though.

The sheer amount of use the average gamer gives the pad makes it second nature. I'd say you need to be decent with a wheel to compete with the average pad racer.
 

markymark34

Well-known Member
I found the wheel excellent on forza but totally unplayable on Dirt. Must say ive given up on the wheel just because its so much hassle using it. Anyway a lack of new driving games or are there decent ones on the way?
 

thelegendofyrag

Active Member
the thing with using the pad though you have to be deft with the stick to get that turn in a corner correct and smooth and to be able to hold it there. With a wheel you would be able to turn it as much as you need to and hold it there for long sweeping corners more easily wouldn't you?
 

Morphies

Active Member
the thing with using the pad though you have to be deft with the stick to get that turn in a corner correct and smooth and to be able to hold it there. With a wheel you would be able to turn it as much as you need to and hold it there for long sweeping corners more easily wouldn't you?


If only it was that easy. Theoretically it should be the case, but minor adjustments imo were a real splinter in the bum.. and when was the last time you turned into a corner and didn't have to correct it slightly? Still this could of course be just me or my wheel.
 

thelegendofyrag

Active Member
If only it was that easy. Theoretically it should be the case, but minor adjustments imo were a real splinter in the bum.. and when was the last time you turned into a corner and didn't have to correct it slightly? Still this could of course be just me or my wheel.


Thats my point with a pad every corner i go into i have to let the stick go then bash it again. But with a wheel i've always imagined it would be much smoother??
 

Morphies

Active Member
Get one and try it!

It may be for you, just wasn't for me.

Right all, Movie time for me. :hiya:
 

nick501

Distinguished Member
The fanatec wheel looks great, possibly more than a match for the G25. Shame they're not mass producing it.

£250+ for the multi-platform version seems a bit steep esp. when you have to pay now and take delivery in the summer.

saying that, if i won or found £250 it'd probably top of my 'want' list.

certainly wouldnt bother with the wheel if i wasnt specifically a racing game fan esp considering the space they occupy with a suitable mount. The humble pad had/has served me well for years, and i'd like to think i have been at least a little bit competitive with it.

pad = great

'proper' wheel = awesome
 

CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
If your skillfull enough with a pad then i think you can easily compete with someone with a wheel.

That is very true but I personally do not use a wheel as a way of getting an edge over pad gamers. I use a wheel (Logitech G25) to enhance the experience and with PS3 games like GT5p and Ferrari Challenge and PC games like GTR2, GTL and IRacing it certainly does that. :)
 

Trist

Well-known Member
I'd love to get a wheel. The only time I've ever used a wheel before was a Uni where I used to go around to a mates who had a wheel and take turns on Grand Prix 4 playing hot seat mode. It was a fairly basic wheel even by the standards then and didn't have force feedback or anything of the fancy bits. It was still excellent though.

The problem I've got now though is that I just don't really get the time anymore to play games like I did at college or Uni (when I obviously should have been working). Plus my Xbox is down in the sitting room and its just not practical to setup a wheel in the middle of the room.

I'd love to get a wheel, but at the moment for me it just isn't practical. I do get bloody jealous reading about them though ;) One day...
 

bad robot

Well-known Member
REGARDS G25 X360 Support

Start a thread and you'll see, not filling this topic up with off topic posts anymore m8.

In answer to the point below, of course no hardware will work without Microsofts consent, that wasn't even part of the discussion.

I said this:

USB devices are standard, there is no reason other than a 360 software update for it not to work. The issue is how much this update would cost Logitech in my opinion because in their defense, they would not be willing to pay for what would be very limited sales (the device is very expensive so not mass market appeal).

You disagreed a software update was required.

I already admitted it was a licensing issue between Microsoft and Logitech. I've shown you evidence from Logitech's own employees that its not a purely hardware conflict as PC's had to have a special driver written to accept the G25's input method. I agree by the way that any device that wirelessly connects directly to the 360 rather than through any dongle requires special hardware as the RF is not standard that Microsoft use. I believe I also admitted it wasn't likely we will see a resolution, I just said it was possible.
 

GMC79

Distinguished Member
I have the 360 wheel and while it is good i still only use it for a bit of fun now and again on Forza, The fact is unless u have a way to set it up properly with a seat etc then thats all it can be, a bit of fun. Im far quicker with the pad on any game mind u.
Never used a pc wheel, would love to get one as all the PC sims used with a pad are, well ****. :rotfl: Well Race 07 is just about ok with a pad i spose.

Seen the Driving Force pro in Game last time i was in, Although a bit steep at £119.99:eek: they never used to sell em, does that work with a pc?
 

bad robot

Well-known Member
Ive said it wasnt just a case of a driver update appearing...

Tell me why Thrustmaster / Saitek or other PC USB wheels do not work with the X360. Not one single USB unnoficial controller do i know of works with X360 be it wireless or USB. Surely one of those companies would of stepped forward by now and given Microsoft $$$$ for a driver update to include compatibility for their products.

As ive mentioned Microsoft created their hardware from the offset to not be compatible. If you want compatibility you gotta go through their licscenscing proceedures and in doing this means the product has to meet the requirements they have regards all input devices on the system.
I mentioned the colour coding buttons seems one such element as every 3rd party device i have seen maintains the colour coding, is that just by chance, i doubt it. Seems to me part of the agreements are that the product has to meet set requirements in its layout/design to achieve the licensce.

Microsoft cannot charge a company to pay for such licensces to then one day do a U-turn and create a Magical Driver to support the "G25" or indeed other unoffical unlicensced controller devices. Your forgetting the elements of what the licenscing entails and the legalities for both parties. That means imo standard USB products including wheels aint going to ever get supported by a patch. Your the one that was assuming this to be possible and making it seem like a simple process.

Technically if its possible it doesnt matter and wether it be a wired or USB device imo the device still has to SYNC with the X360 console so that makes no difference imo. You again brought this USB issue up regards a guitar and mic (both licensced products hence why they work)
Its not a case of Logitec paying Microsoft $$$$ for driver support that isnt an option and the only option is to create a new wheel that is compatible and acquire the licensce

Your only hope is if some 3rd party device appears that adapts/converts a USB devices input gets it to sync emulating say an X360 wheel and allows buttons to be remapped.
 
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shagaboopon

Well-known Member
We're arguing semantics of the discussion now Bad Robot, my point is the fix is possible (and software orientated) if Microsoft would allow it. For the record all 3 console manufacturers lock down their controllers with licensing.

On the subject of wheels I've not bought one for the 360 as I used to have a nice wheel for the PC but using it was awkward. If I was to buy a wheel I'd need to setup a playseat or equivalent to use it properly and in all honesty room is an issue. The ION drumkit takes up a large amount of space in our apartment so a proper wheel setup is a no no until we move again.

My brother in law bought the Microsoft wheel at xmas so given I'm helping him move next week I hope I can sneek a session on it.
 

bad robot

Well-known Member
We're arguing semantics of the discussion now Bad Robot, my point is the fix is possible (and software orientated) if Microsoft would allow it. For the record all 3 console manufacturers lock down their controllers with licensing.

Tell you what to do ask Microsoft when the fix is comming or if im right that it wont ever happen...
For the record nothing your the guy thats been pulling at wild claims of driver support and possibilities of this and that.

And why?

Their is a difference in "can it be done" and "will it be done"

They could easily make the G25 work if they wanted to. They can also get around the headset thing (using another pad etc.) if they wanted to. The hardware is not too dissimilar to a PC so they could get it working via software i'm sure.
Actually if Microsoft wanted to allow the current G25 to be supported I'm pretty sure they could do it in a update.

Microsoft can produce drivers to run any USB hardware they choose to support. Obviously its not likely the G25 will gain support as Microsoft want to make money off their own device but if licensing issues were sorted then its definately a possibility with the current hardware.

the g25 wheel can be used for MS easily but its all down to MS.

Ok guys so you carry on getting peoples hopes up that one day a driver is going to appear to make USB wheels compatible...
Ive tried to explain otherwise why its not going to happen (from what i assume to be perfectly resonable explanation) and that its also not just a "Logitech Issue" as no other manufacturer has come out with such a driver within 3.5 years of X360's lifespan.

It also doesnt explain why a company like Fanatec who produced the "911 Turbo wheel for PS3 & PC" which only rolled out in April 2008 then release a new product in October of the same year with the "911 Turbo S" to include X360 support as well. Going by what you guys are saying all Fanatec had to do was save thousands of Euros on RD and licensce fees and just come up with a driver solution with Microsoft for their current product as this would of been easier and alot less cost/hassle.

Instead the new wheel appears with the appropiate buttons and uses the offical colours for the buttons.
To me that is further proof of a "Driver Update" not being a possibility and that a product to gain support has to be developed and licensced from scratch.

So for those reading you can come to your own conclusions
 
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CAS FAN

Distinguished Member
BR, calm down fella. :) I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you. MS probably won't ever allow the G25 to be compatable with the 360, all anyone is saying is that they could do if they wanted to (i.e. it's not a physical impossibility).

I think we all feel that 'It won't be done' and I think we all feel that 'It could be done'. Nobody is saying that MS are going to do it, to the contrary we are saying that it's annoying that it could be done but they won't do it. :)

Oh and the Fanatec wheel is a completely different situation as they released a version (the S wheel) that is wirelessly compatible with the 360. To do that a new version was needed. The G25 connects via USB and the 360 is already compatible with USB devices so would therefore just require the correct drivers so that the wheel can interface with the 360.
 
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bad robot

Well-known Member
I found the wheel excellent on forza but totally unplayable on Dirt. Must say ive given up on the wheel just because its so much hassle using it. Anyway a lack of new driving games or are there decent ones on the way?

Some may find that hard to understand but i read its to do with how the programmers/developers configure the devices sensativity for steering and if they allow controlled adjustments of this as an option.

Simply a wheel can allow more accuracy in steering but at the same time a pad will allow faster responses/correction in steering.

Seems to depend on the individual and how they adapt to a new device as to what they may become faster with. Theirs evidence on GTP forums that the best PAD users can indeed be as fast as the best wheel users. Poon also showed this to be the case in another thread regards FM2.
 

shagaboopon

Well-known Member
BR, calm down fella. :) I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you. MS probably won't ever allow the G25 to be compatable with the 360, all anyone is saying is that they could do if they wanted to (i.e. it's not a physical impossibility).

I think we all feel that 'It won't be done' and I think we all feel that 'It could be done'. Nobody is saying that MS are going to do it, to the contrary we are saying that it's annoying that it could be done but they won't do it. :)

Precisely but apparantly I've now said it will be done somewhere in my posts. I haven't, I've checked, stop putting words into others peoples mouths BR. Might I add any claims I did make I backed up with quotes from sources which is hardly misinforming people and I also tried to explain my reasoning. Anybody who checked the link I posted from that Logitech board would have noticed that Logitech have said its not happening.

The discussion I was having wasn't whether it will happen which is what you've decided it now is. The discussion was you said it wasn't possible, I say it is. I'll leave you to have the last word but I suggest you do check through my posts and you'll see all I've done is try and prove there is no hardware reason for it not working and it could be fixed in software.

The reason the other company spent so much money on their product I would imagine is because they've had to implement a more expensive USB/wireless PCB. I apologise for not checking specs on the other wheel but if its a wired controller then it would require a USB controller capable of working in HID and XID at hardware level so it can work with 360 and PS3. That probably does cost a fair amount of R&D but once again this is because Microsoft will not allow their console to accept a XID USB input. If the other wheel uses wireless for PS3 and 360 then its easy to say also why the costs to produce this would be high.

*EDIT*

Looking at the Fanatec webpage the 360 solution doesn't use the wireless dongle like the PC and PS3 and hence uses Microsoft properietry wireless technology complete with the guide button. This means their massive research and design costs wouldn't have been much as they would have just added the 360 wireless technology and a method to switch between that and the USB RF dongle for other machines. Obviously they got around the USB input issues being different to PS3 by side stepping them.

Also you're probably right that another barrier to entry is it doesn't fit Microsoft's "look" in order to be licensed, I've checked a number of sources on 3rd party controllers and all have colour coded buttons and of course the guide button.
 
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bad robot

Well-known Member
BR, calm down fella. :) I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with you. MS probably won't ever allow the G25 to be compatable with the 360, all anyone is saying is that they could do if they wanted to (i.e. it's not a physical impossibility).

I think we all feel that 'It won't be done' and I think we all feel that 'It could be done'. Nobody is saying that MS are going to do it, to the contrary we are saying that it's annoying that it could be done but they won't do it. :)

Oh and the Fanatec wheel is a completely different situation as they released a version (the S wheel) that is wirelessly compatible with the 360. To do that a new version was needed. The G25 connects via USB and the 360 is already compatible with USB devices so would therefore just require the correct drivers so that the wheel can interface with the 360.

Im calm, but it annoys me when people here put blame on MS or indeed Logitech and write their frustration when they fail to try and understand the reason why its not likely to happen.

CAS you and the other guys have said plenty but proved nothing.
Ive pointed out if its such an easy thing as you guys have made out WHY hasnt ANY wheel manufacturer done the driver support thing with MS.

Evidence in products released show that it has to be developed and licensced from the beginning, you can show me otherwise.

Regards the Porsche wheel yes your right in that it used a wireless dongle for PC and PS3 that wouldnt of allowed the X360 to connect with it using a different incompatible wireless signal. Nice way to try and catch me out however you have failed in that respect as the Fanatec "Porsche 911 Carrera wheel" and the new upcoming "Porsche 911 GT3 RS" are both wired USB solutions so Id ask again why Fanatec or no other Wheel manufacturer has ever come up with the simple driver solution.

What was happening in the other thread as shown with the 3 people inc yourself quoted is that its a myth that its big bad Microsoft at their work being awkward.

Yes it is Microsofts fault in having a closed hardware solution but its not their fault Logitech or other companies other than Fanatec at this stage have developed another multiplatform wheel solution
 

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