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32ZD26P & Component video

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by clety, Jan 14, 2003.

  1. clety

    clety
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    I just ordered the Tosh TV from J Lewis which has component video socket, which I understand gives a better picture quality then RGB but how much does a component cables cost? Are they very expensive compared to Scart cables and where is the best place to buy cables.

    I am thinking of geting tosh SD220e m region but this hasn't got progressive scan ability only SD550 has, is this right? Is it worth spending the extra for SD550 for progessive scan pictures for NTSC, I mean can you see the difference clearly?

    And I gather that this TV has progressive scan for NTSC signals, however I read on this forum there are some problems with progressive NTSC pictures, is that a common problem?.

    Your advice would be much apprciated!:p
     
  2. Yugo1

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    Hi,

    Not seen it myself but I hear prog is an amazing picture (the best he's ever seen according to my friend). If it was me I would spend the extra, sods law says you will need it in the future. As for the other questions I can't help cos I don't really get all the techno talk you read on the net.

    Cheers

    Yugo :confused:
     
  3. juboy

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    1. Component cables are priced pretty much the same as decent SCART leads, they range from around £30 at the lowest end you should consider, right up to £100 and then into daft money (I think Nordost do a 1m set for just under £3000!).

    I use a Toshiba 510 running into a 36ZD26P and personally I use the Supra AV3 Component cable which does an excellent job. I think www.supradirect.co.uk are doing til end of January for £51.99 - an excellent bargain.

    2. Seriously, if you have bought the 32ZD26P then you really should make sure you at least have the capability of viewing NTSC progressive scan (that is actually the single main reason I bought my set).

    The excellent Toshiba 520 can be had multi-region for as little as £220/£230 if you look hard enough online. To pay £100 less for the 220 would be a serious mistake in my view.

    The simple answer is 'yes' true NTSC progressive scan pictures fed from a decent DVD player to the xxZD26P TVs look awesome, a vast improvment in clarity and depth, with a far more 'filmic' and less synthetic look.

    I really cannot stress enough how much you should ensure that any DVD upgrade you buy can at least do NTSC progressive scan.
    You may also wish to consider getting one with PAL prog scan as there are (albeit very hopeful) moves to see if Tosh are likely to upgrade the xxZD26Ps to accept a PAL prog signal.
     
  4. ditton15

    ditton15
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    I also agree that you should spend the extra to get a DVD player, such as the Tosh 520 to take advantage of NTSC prog scan. (Before I bought the Tosh ZD26 I had the Tosh SD220 but then traded up to the Tosh 510.)

    just to add, to an otherwise very full reply, that if you want to to use yout Tosh ZD26 to display prog scan [from DVDs], you need NTSC discs, ie Region 1 DVDs, not the Region 2 DVDs that you can buy in UK shops.

    ditton
     
  5. John-D

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    Hi all

    Ive got a Tosh 32ZT29 (soon to be 36ZT29), but need to know something.

    When Im playing NTSC DVDs, I use Prog-Scan to watch them via s-video (on Sony 525). If I bought a new player which outputs Prog-Scan via component, would I have to manually switch the Prog-Scan on my tv to on, or would it switch on automatically?

    Cheers
    John
     
  6. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Not at all. The ZD26's can perform prog scan on all sources. The deinterlacer may not be as good as you'll find in mid-range and above prog scan DVD players, but it's great for when you're watching analogue letterbox programmes (Alias, Enterprise etc) and DVD (PAL or NTSC) as the line structure vanishes completely.
     
  7. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    This is in reply to Cerebros & John D's posts.

    I think it should be noted that there are two prog-scan issues with the ZD and ZT sets:

    1) the toshiba sets have an internal de-interlacer. As with the overwhelming majority of integrated de-interlacers in mass market CRT's (and effectively all prog-scan sets sold in the UK), this performs basic de-interlacing optimsed for video (as opposed to Film) based sources. In the Toshiba's case, it can de-interlace both Pal & NTSC signals, which is done by 'weaving' the interlaced fields togther to make complete frames for a 'progressive' image. This works fine for PAL films (shot with a film camera, recorded on film @24 frames per sec) and video images (i.e. pictures captured on a video camera, an recorded on tape - such as regular TV programs and news broadcasts etc.), as PAL films have a pull-down ratio of 2:2 (put very basically, 'pull-down' is the process of converting an interlaced film image to a progressive one). The 2:2 ratio means that there are 2 video fields to every 2 progressive frames - therefore this equal balance means that even basic de-interlacers such as those in TV's can produce an accurate progressive scan picture. NTSC, however, requires 3:2 pull-down, meaning that it must make 2 progressive frames out of every 3 fields - naturally, a basic 'weave' will not result in the most accurate progressive scan picture, resulting in 'feathering' 'stair-stepping' and other minor image glitches. Most people won't notice these, as they will be happy to be rid of the scan lines that are present in the 525-line NTSC system. But this is the reason why a dedicated, more accurate de-interlacing chip in prog-scan-capable DVD players always gives a better picture than the set's own prog-scan setting. It is also far better that the de-interlacing is performed in the digital domain in the DVD player itself, because that preserves the full resolution of the image (when de-interlacing is performed on an interlaced picture in analogue -i.e. inside the TV - some lines are lost from the picture, giving a reduced resolution. Therefore:

    2) If a prog-scan TV set has broadband component inputs that can receive a progressive scan image from an external input source (such as a games console, or more commonly, a DVD player), it is always preferrable that they be used. The picture produced is noticeably superior. In the case of the Toshiba Strata sets, they can receive 480p (NTSC progressive)signals from prog-scan DVD players. With a R1 disc, for instance, the Toshiba recognises the prog-scan input and displays the picture in WIDE mode automatically, even if it was set to 100Hz, Natural or Active previously. Furthermore, DNR is not available as an option with a progressive input. The set just displays the picture as it is. Picture adjustments (such as colour, tint, brightness, etc.) are still available, though. The Panasonic 32PH40 set is another UK model that can accept prog-scan input from component (Component - YUV or YPbPr -, BTW, is the only way to receive progressive scan images in any consumer TV), and it can handle both 480p (NTSC) and 570p(PAL) prog scan signals.

    SO, cerebros, I think ditton15 was referring to prog-scan inputs, which do have to be NTSC, not to the set's internal conversion.

    & John D, the answer is NO, the TV senses the prog scan input and switches itself automatically

    IMHO, ALL high-end 32" and above sets should have component inputs that can handle native prog scan images in ALL tv system formats - I'm sick & tired of crappy old scart. It's bad enough we won't see real HDTV for years to come!

    Cheers,

    Moory
     
  8. ditton15

    ditton15
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    "SO, cerebros, I think ditton15 was referring to prog-scan inputs, which do have to be NTSC, not to the set's internal conversion."

    spot on. that was what I tried to say. If you just buy Region 2 DVDs from UK shops you will get PAL encoding not NTSC, and hence not get the value of the prog scan from the DVD player. Region 1 DVDs do have NTSC encoding, as well as generally being cheaper and having richer content.

    However, YellowCows, if I used a set of Components, rather than SCART, to deliver picture data from a TeleWest digital cable source into the Tosh ZD26, how much better would the picture be? (I know I could try this but am reluctant to keep (un)plugging at the Component sockets as others have indicated a possible build weakeness.)

    ditton15
     
  9. cerebros

    cerebros
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    Well I'm just responding to what he wrote not what he meant :)
     
  10. clety

    clety
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    Thanx for your reply. Now can you tell me where can I get the best deal on Toshiba 520 Mulit region player and would I usually encounter problems with the mulit region player interms of playing R1 discs, if so how are internet retailers, who I presume are cheapest, are in customer service?

    My younger brother has big collection of NTSC discs so I can borrow and watch. So all I need is my Tosh TV which will be deliverd in early next week from J.Lewis and then purchase 520 DVD player with a quality component cables and hey, I would have a smashing system, can't wait!

    Would I have a problem with interlacer?!, how would be make sure that I get the best possible picture?
     
  11. ditton15

    ditton15
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    Since I was recommending purchase of DVDs I had hoped that it would have been self-evident that I was referring to the Tosh tv's ability to display material from DVDs. However, I have added "from DVDs" to my posting in order to remove any ambiguity.

    :cool:

    ditton
     
  12. ditton15

    ditton15
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    clety

    The Tosh tv + DVD player + component cable + NTSC dvd combination is just great. I benefited greatly from advice here. Just make sure you track down the calibration advice that is here on this Forum to help you with set-up.

    ditton
     
  13. juboy

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    Go here for the best price I've seen for a multi-region Toshiba 520e:

    www.dvdplayers.co.uk/toshiba-sd520e.htm

    This is an amazing price and the small premium over the Toshiba 220 makes the purchase a total no-brainer.

    My Toshiba 510 has never had a single problem playing any R1 (or R2 and R3) discs whatsoever. I would imagine the 520 will be as least as flexible, if not more so (although this will depend on the modification of course).

    Yep, that should give you a picture you'll be more than happy with, assuming the Tosh TV is one of the good ones and not a duffer.
     
  14. YellowCows

    YellowCows
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    Sorry for taking so long to reply. If the telewest STB has a set of component outputs, which would be news to me, then you should DEFINITELY use them. The DVB format, used for encoding digital TV whether on satellite, cable or terrestrial, is simialr to DVD, in that it is MPEG2-based, which stores the picture in YUV form, not RGB. The picture beneifts over RGB won't be night-and-day, but you should see a 'cleaner', more stable picture. However, if you'll be using an RGB scart to component converter, don't waste your time - you won't get a better picture than the one from your RGB scart connection.

    I haven't heard about any socket build weakness - so unless you yank and plug your cables roughly, you should be OK. All phono plugs should always be pushed and pulled gently at the head of the plug, never pull on the cable itself.

    HTH,


    Moory
     
  15. clety

    clety
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    Thanx for your reply.

    Has anyone had any problem with this online retailer, the price seems good, I might order it.

    Component cables, do you know if there are good quality but reasonable priced cables I could buy, I mean for less than 35 pounds and yes lets hope I get a good Tosh TV which is delivered tomorrow infact!
     
  16. ditton15

    ditton15
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    Moory/YellowCows (just how did you make that one up?),

    many thanks, I'll check it out.

    ditton
     
  17. gavintennant

    gavintennant
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    dvdplayers.co.uk
    Clety...

    I just ordered a Tosh SD520 from them. Ordered at 1pm on Thursday, delivery atempted at 2.10pm on Friday afternoon so although it's my first time using them... I was suitably impressed and they answered all my emails within half an hour!

    Gavin
     

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