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32wl48p & panny s97 hcmi = crap!

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by chris210972, Jan 27, 2005.

  1. chris210972

    chris210972
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    i thought i was going to have one hell of a dvd picture quality tonight.
    just got a toshiba 32wl48p and a panasonic s97 dvd player.
    both have hdmi sockets.
    anyway to cut a long stressfull story short the picure quality is very, very poor.
    in fact rgb scart is better.
    the picure is grainy and "blocky".
    i thought hdmi was supposed to be the ultimate picture quality :thumbsdow
    i have tried numerous settings and scales and all are very, very poor.
    so, its it the tv that has the problem, the dvd player or is it the hdmi lead that was supplied with the dvd player?
    has anyone else had hdmi experience with the toshiba?
     
  2. ginger

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    I've got the same combination, but use the QED HDMI cable (didn't even bother connecting up the one in the box to try it). I've not really had a chance to play with the settings, but I certainly wouldn't describe what I get as poor - It may be down to personal expectations - I'm comparing my whole set up with what I used to have - a 10yr old 20" 4:3 CRT and a non-prog scan PS2, and this is definitely better.

    I don't see anything I would describe as blocky. As for grainy, in some things I've watched where there's a large area of solid colour e.g. a blue wall, then the colour can look what could be described as grainy, but I didn't see it look otherwise with my previous set-up so it could be the source. Is this the type of thing you're referring to?
     
  3. chris210972

    chris210972
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    i have compared the pictures between the s97 connected via hdmi and the pioneer 575 via rgb scart and the pictures using the pioneer are smoother and "noise free".
    using the s97 just gives a very "grainy" picture and is nowhere near as good.
    maybe "blocky" is the wrong word to use.
    one solid colours there seems to be a lot of moving images, grain and noise.
    it just looks vey poor.
    its very hard to describe.
     
  4. phibsboro

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    I posted in another thread with my experience putting a pc into the HDMI connection on a 32WL48. Basically, I got exactly what you got - dreadful picture. I described it as like a picture u'd get with rabbit ears - just very noisy, not clean at all - defo not a subjective call, way beyond what anyone would call acceptable. A number of mag reviews have apparenbtly mentioned the same thing. I think Tosh have a problem here :( I have already emailed them bout the HDMI not taking the native resolution from a PC, but it took them 15 days to acknowledge the email! And then they just said they were forwarding it on to their technical department. I suppose I should add in the quality thing (I send the first email before I actually got the PC working at all via HDMI, so didn't know bout the PQ issues).

    Anyone else care to tell us their experiences? Does anyone know if there is a software version on the Tosh we could compare? Could ginger actually try the cable that same with the box, see if the picture is much different? I am using a cheap and cheerful cable, but i can't imagine a cable would have that effect on a digital signal?

    Cheers,
    C
     
  5. chris210972

    chris210972
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    if this is hdmi on the tosh then i'm gonna send it back.
    the only reson i got the tv in the first place was down to the hdmi socket.
    if i had known scart was better i wouldn't have bothered.
     
  6. richjthorpe

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    Whathifi reviewed this TV and said the HDMI wasn't very good although a lot of people on this forum disputed that and said the picture was excellent.
     
  7. chris210972

    chris210972
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    well mine is horrible (virtually unwatchable).
    i must have been one of the unlucky ones :thumbsdow
     
  8. nemo

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    I have a pioneer 868 connected to my Tosh by a QED hdmi cable and the picture is excellent.
     
  9. phibsboro

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    Again, does anyone who gets a good HDMI pic have a cheapy cable they could try for comparision? Did anyone get vast improvement from trying a better cable?

    C
     
  10. jgrg

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    There will not be any difference with an expensive cable. It is a digital connection, so all you need is a solid electrical connection through cables of the correct rating.

    If the cable is REALLY poor quality (badly sheilded, poorly soldered) then the picture can be affected. In this case what you see are "sparkles" - random white pixels scattered over the image - where the digital information isn't getting through. This also happens with very long runs of cable, where the signal becomes too weak.

    Do you have a sharpness control on the screen? It may be over-sharpening a signal that is already perfectly sharp (because it is digital).

    James
     
  11. ginger

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    Those with crap pictures - what version of firmware do you have installed (hold down open/close and pause at same time and press 7 on the remote).

    I had 85E528 installed and didn't have any problems. I've just installed the update to 85E536 which was supposed to improve macroblocking (not that I'd noticed this anyway) and am now getting a crap picture just as you described :mad: :( :suicide:

    Update - after turning everything off & on, and fiddling with settings such as DNR the picture now looks just as it did before - I might have been sitting too close when doing the update because from 1m or less it still looks crap
     
  12. ginger

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    OK, I did a comparison between the supplied and QED HDMI cables, and the supplied component cable, watching Austin Powers II.

    I saw very little difference between the HDMI cables. From a viewing distance of 2m the picture looks good. Approaching the screen, solid colours begin to look grainy and there's an embossed effect around images - like being not properly tuned into a normal broadcast channel. These were most obvious on the title page where there is large, chunky text. The distance at which these effects become apparent is about 5ft for the normal cable and 4ft for the QED cable.

    Using the component cable, the picture is less sharp, colours appear more washed-out and the resolution looks less - as expected as the output is not up-scaled via component. On approaching the screen I see the same embossed effect at about 3-4ft but the colours remain solid and not grainy.

    Conclusion - at 2m distance, the best set up is with the QED HDMI cable, with the supplied HDMI cable a very close second. If I had a separate scaler and tweaked the sharpness and colour settings I could probably get the best picture via component.
     
  13. ginger

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    After all the discusions on this and the DVD Player forum I'd formed the opinion that the reported grainy picture was related to the source - i.e. noticeable on older, poorer quality DVDs. I didn't own any very new DVDs so couldn't compare. From what I'd watched, it appeared to be OK at a normal viewing distance anyway.

    However, today I bought Spiderman on Superbit (R2) and expected (hoped) to be blown away. I recorded Spiderman off Sky Movies a couple of weeks ago using my Sky+ box so had that to compare with.

    Watching DVD the colours are definitely better (no adjustments, AV Enhance set to auto) and the resolution noticeably higher (at 720p and 1080i). But the picture is GRAINY :thumbsdow and this is very noticeable at a 2m viewing distance.

    If this is what I get over HDMI using the best quality source then I must say I expected better. Not sure this bodes well for Sky HD when it comes out, which is the reason many of us want HDMI connections :(
     
  14. jimsan

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    Sorry Ginger, what screen are you using?

    Jimmy
     
  15. bad robot

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    Glad i read this thread, i was going to get the Panasonic player for HDMI to use on a Panasonic AE 700. Seems id be best to stick to component on the Pioneer 575, anyones thoughts?

    Even more surprising is how well my 6 yr old imported Sony S7000 stands up to all these new players even though it was interlaced only.
     
  16. ginger

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    Jimmy, I've got the Tosh 32WL48. I've e-mailed Tosh to see what they've got to say about it
     
  17. jimsan

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    Sorry, I think I new that. So this is virtually the same problem as Chris had with his then. He's now got the 9986 and seems dekighted. Certainly the others who have connect digitally with the 9986 are reporting excellent, smooth PQ. I wonder if it's the combination of the Panny DVD and the Tosh?

    Jimmy
     
  18. ginger

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    Well, it's 14 days on and finally Tosh got back in touch to say that they suspect a problem with my TV and that I should contact the supplier (buyyourav) to have it sorted under warranty. So this raises a few questions:

    1) Has anyone else done an objective comparison of watching DVDs on the Tosh via HDMI and Component or RGB SCART that can honestly say the HDMI picture is not grainy? If so, then maybe there is some quality problem that can be fixed - otherwise it's a design problem

    2) As I'm way outside the 7 day distance selling regs, will I have to pay to send the TV back to the supplier, and if so how much is this likely to cost :confused:

    My biggest concern is that there is a fundamental problem with the Tosh HDMI input. Whilst I can always get a decent component cable to watch DVDs, the whole future-proof-Sky-HD-broadcasting thing is potentially out the window :suicide:

    It's always possible that the Panny S97 is the problem, but I've not found any reports of a grainy picture from this to any TV other than the Tosh.
     
  19. Damian1978

    Damian1978
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    I think there is an issue with HDMI and Toshiba's image processing as its commented in HCC April mags review.

    I noticed the slight grainyness/alive quality to backdrops and stills and I think this also affects digital sources.

    Its putting me off trying another.
     

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