1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

32-bit hdtv component YPbPr output

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by laplace, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi there,

    Can please anyone confirm that nVidia 6600 / 6600GT and ATi X700 / X700 Pro can't output in 32-bit color mode for 720p (1280*720 @ 50/60Hz) and 1080i (1920*1080 @ 25/30Hz) through hdtv component YPbPr output ? I have a TV set with no DVI, HDMI or VGA input, only YPbPr Component able to accept 720p and 1080i (Sony KLV-L32M1 LCD, 1366*768 native resolution). In manuals I downloaded it seems hdtv output is limited to 8- and 16-bit; this is ok for displaying text or webpages but 32-bit would be required for dvd playback. If anyone successfully uses 32-bit hdtv 720p or 1080i with a 6600/6600GT, can you please post full hardware specifications (video card, driver, LCD/plasma model).

    Thanks a lot,
    Marie-Laure Laplace
     
  2. KraGorn

    KraGorn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Warrington
    Ratings:
    +27
    I suspect the only cards capable of outputtign 32-bit signals (if there are indeed any) would be NVidia's Quadro professional CAD system cards .. costing many hundreds of pounds for the bottom-end version.

    I know nothing about plasmas but I'd be very surprised if they're more than 8-bit devices internally, after all DVI is an 8-bit interface as is HDMI on all currently available players AFAIK.
     
  3. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    What I mean by 32-bit is 32bpp "true" colors mode, giving 16.7 million colors, as opposed to 8bpp (256 colors) or 16bpp (65,536 colors). I don't mean 32-bit for each color channel (not sure it even exists; in Photoshop you usually work with 3*8bit or 3*16bit for professional devices).
     
  4. KraGorn

    KraGorn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Warrington
    Ratings:
    +27
    I seem to have confused things :), I meant DVI is 8-bit per primary colour making it a 24-bit (16 billion) colour system. My belief is that domestic HDTV is the same 8-bit system as for DVI/HDMI, although the HDMI spec which goes up to 12-bit per colour IIRC.
     
  5. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks KraGorn.

    So anyone here using 32-bit hdtv output through component ? What video card ?

    Thanks,
    MLL
     
  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,041
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,113
    Just to stick my oar in.

    Its 8bits per channel we are talking about . Thats 8 each for RGB plus an alpha channel which give you 32bit colour. The alpha is inconsequential for video for our purposes but its still 32bit colour if you like not 24bit.These days there is very little reason to be using anything other than 32bit colour.

    Its really better to talk in terms of the bit depth per channel . Even the Quadros will only give you 8bit output unless you get exotic versions that have HDsdi outputs (even then I'm not so sure). The precision of the DAC can make a significant difference to the quality of the image on the display though (more bits less banding 10bit and 12bit are pretty much the norm these days). Its still an 8bit range that the card is representing though.

    Even if you work in photoshop in 16bit (or any other package) you are only effectively seeing 8bit on the output of the graphics card albeit with 10 or 12bit dithering. Reasons for working 16bit are to do with maintaining precision and minimising banding but this is a software computation issue not a graphics hardware improvement.

    For example I normally work in 32bit float but in certain circumstances my display ( which is fed from a Quadro) will exhibit posterisation in certain areas but from experience I know its a display artifact. The actual images are fine as they are a higher bitdepth than what the display chain is capable of resolving (10bit log in my case even though its worked at 32bit).

    I've gotten component out of a radeon 9800 pro with a component dongle with little difficulty. I've heard of people getting component out of radeon cards with nothing more than powerstrip and the right driver.
     
  7. Widescreenx

    Widescreenx
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    45
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +2
    Does anyone know if the hdmi socket has the compatible hdcp?
     
  8. KraGorn

    KraGorn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Warrington
    Ratings:
    +27
    Which HDMI socket are you asking about, or are you enquiring about HDMI in general?

    The HDMI spec requires HDCP when transmitting protected source material, either DVDs, cable broadcasts etc. In theory if the source material isn't protected then an HDMI player shouldn't engage HDCP, most seem to do so.
     
  9. KraGorn

    KraGorn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Warrington
    Ratings:
    +27
    Sorry, I thought I'd answered it :) .. as Mr. D. says, 24-bit colour is all that's needed and that's what we have today, analog or digital.
     
  10. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,041
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,113
    Ah no just to be clear there is such a thing as 24bit colour but its not necessarily the same as 32bit without the alpha channel. (I've got an old but good fujitsu laptop knocking about that only goes to 24bit I assume 6bits per channel)

    Much easier to talk in terms of channels in which case its 8bit we are after and as Kragorn points out you won't have a problem with this aspect of the signal... you might have to fight to get the component output to work correctly though... but it is doable.

    The bitdepth won't be the tricky part. The timings and driver issues probably will be.
     
  11. MikeTV

    MikeTV
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,781
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ealing, London
    Ratings:
    +843
    I might be missing something here (I haven't read the whole thread properly!), but I am running at a 32bit windows resolutions using 1080i (60Hz), via components (YPbPr). Actually, my display uses RGBHV - but you could use a RGBHV->YPbPr transcoder (widely available).

    I would expect any radeon graphics card to support those resolutions happily - but you need Powerstrip to configure HDTV resolutions (they are not built into windows by default - yet).
     
  12. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'll explain a little further my question.
    When downloading user manuals for several X700 / X700 Pro / 6600 / 6600GT cards, I found that specifications sometimes are diversified between available resolution modes in "2D" and in "HDTV", as if HDTV output had some restrictions. Some do not state this however. Please take a look at this pdf I created from several ones :
    http://users.skynet.be/fa545712/Extraits.pdf

    Page 1 is from Gigabyte GV-RX70128D ;
    Page 2 is from Gigabyte GV-NX66128DP / GV-NX66256DP;
    Pages 3 to 8 are from Gigabyte GV-RX70P256V / GV-RX70P128D;
    Page 9 is from Gigabyte GV-NX66T128D.

    Gigabyte seems to be a good choice for Home Cinema PCs as some of their cards have passive cooling and I want my HCPC to be as silent as possible (using a Yesico fanless power supply, Coolermaster Hyper48 CPU fan with 12V to 5V converter, and
    Western Digital WD3200JB ultrasilent hard disk).

    What I'm searching for is detailed information from someone that actually uses 32-bit color Component output to a LCD/plasma TV : video card, driver, TV model, and parameters in Powerstrip if this is used too.

    Thanks,
    Marie-Laure
     
  13. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,041
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,113
    Arctic silencer coolers are xtremely quiet and come in various models to fit most graphics cards. This may open up your scope of choice of cards.

    With regard to the component output I am more than sure that with a bit of searching on this forum and others you will come up with the necessary information to allow you to experiment and find the best approach for your kit.

    I am sure most of the relatively recent cards will allow you to do this , perhaps the main thing to bear in mind is what you actually require of the machine when choosing your graphics card.

    With HTPC building you normally need to experiment a little. If this does not apeal there are companies that will construct one for you.
     
  14. KraGorn

    KraGorn
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,740
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Location:
    Warrington
    Ratings:
    +27
    I have to say that after looking at those tables I fail to understand what ATI mean by 'HDTV mode'. Certainly that chart says the higher resolutions only support 8 bits per pixel, I just don't understand what this 'mode' is supposed to be for.

    Sorry, I'm baffled. :confused:

    All I know is that I've seen a few people mention they use the component outputs on their ATIs or NVidias an none indicated colour depth was an issue at all, this was happening long before ATI came out with this 'HDTV mode'.
     
  15. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah KraGorn this is why I want to be sure of true-color capability before buying a 200-500 EUR video card that will only be connected to TV... (and possibly a PC TFT at the start for getting the configuration done)
     
  16. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
  17. linnite

    linnite
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2004
    Messages:
    699
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Burscough, Lancs
    Ratings:
    +48
  18. laplace

    laplace
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    linnite many thanks. I think I'm going to order a Gigabyte GV-N66256DP (fanless, 6600 non-GT) and use it with MCE2005.
     
  19. probedb

    probedb
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,653
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +181
    Sorry don't have either card but my Radeon 9800 Pro will display 1920x1080@32bpp through the DVI->Component convertor?
     

Share This Page

Loading...