3 problems encountered when using lyngdorf TDAI-1120

JW music

Standard Member
Hello everyone, I used to use the DDRC-24 produced by minidsp, but the function of DDRC-24 is only room acoustic correction, lack of streaming media function and HDMI audio input, so I considered upgrading the equipment. After collecting enough information, I set my target on NAD M10 and lyngdorf TDAI-1120, because I already have Dirac live products, and many users think that room perfect is better than Dirac live, so I bought TDAI-1120 .
Let me introduce my equipment first, my speaker is Tannoy gold7, connected to the digital output interface of TDAI-1120. As soon as I connected it, I found that the speaker had a significant noise floor, but when this box was connected to the DDRC-24, the noise floor was basically not audible. Here to explain, because Tannoy GOLD7 only has XLR interface, DDRC-24 only has RCA output interface, so I use RAC to XLR audio cable. When this audio cable is connected to DDRC-24, it has low noise and very low noise. Must be close to the speaker unit to hear. But when TDAI-1120 is connected, it can be heard more than 1 meter away from the speaker, especially when the room is quiet, the noise floor is obvious. Of course, when playing audio, even if there is a noise floor, it is not audible, but this will have a negative impact on the transparency of the sound quality.
In order to test whether it is the TDAI-1120 problem or the cable problem, I found another RCA to RCA cable to connect the TDA-1120 to the RCA interface of Genelec M030, and found that the noise floor is very small, indicating that it should not be the problem of TDAI-1120, The problem is that of the RCA to XLR cable.But what I don't understand is why this RCA to XLR cable connected to DDCR-24 has no obvious noise floor.
Question 2, I have completed the measurement steps of the room perfect. I have measured 8 times in total, and the room knowledge has reached 99%. After turning on RP, compared with DDRC-24, TDAI-1120's sound field and low-frequency dive are indeed better, music and movies are more atmospheric, However, I feel that there are too many low-frequency volume and some medium and high frequency,not up to expectations . I have seen a lot of comparative reviews between Dirac and RP before. Many users say that RP's low-frequency control is significantly better than Dirac, allowing speakers to play more low frequencies. The performance of RP on my speaker system is indeed the same. But a new problem appeared. After the RP was turned on, I feel that the low frequency volume feels a little bit more, and the low frequency is not clear enough.I wonder if Dirac's low-frequency control is not good enough, resulting in less low-frequency sense before. In contrast, room perfect's low-frequency sense is too much? Or is my room perfect measurement not done well? Users of TDAI-1120, do you feel that there is too much low frequency after RP is turned on?
Question 3, when I watched the movie "Nobody.2021", in some scenes, the sound lost the off box feeling. It was obvious that the sound came from the left or right speaker. I don't know if it's due to the poor quality of video files,because when I was playing the remux version of "The great showman.2017", I didn’t find the sound to lose the off box feeling. I’m trying to download the remux version of "Nobody.2021" Let's continue to verify this problem.
Posting for the first time, I hope to get your help, thank you!
 
Last edited:

JW music

Standard Member
Please recommend a passive speaker that can be matched with tdai-1120,the budget is within 2000 pounds.
I wonder if the power of tdai-1120 can drive the floor speaker with three frequency division
 
Last edited:

larkone

Member
Better to get small passives for mid range and treble and use active subs (2 are better) for the bass. The amp then does not have to drive the bass load giving more headroom for mids and top. This is a better setup than floor standers which are a design compromise in the first place.
 

JW music

Standard Member
Better to get small passives for mid range and treble and use active subs (2 are better) for the bass. The amp then does not have to drive the bass load giving more headroom for mids and top. This is a better setup than floor standers which are a design compromise in the first place.

So what are the small passive speakers with a price of less than 2000 pounds worth considering?
 

larkone

Member
no idea what is available in your region
 

JW music

Standard Member
不知道您所在地区有什么可用的
B&W、Focal、Dynaudio、Dali、KEF、Jamo、ELAC、Monitor Audio and others
 

larkone

Member
They all have different sound signatures (and vastly different price points across their ranges) so the best bet is go and listen and find out which ones you like (and can afford) - remembering if you are planning on using subs then they need to be good at midrange up and not to worry about their bass extension.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
Posting for the first time, I hope to get your help, thank you!
You appear to have problems regarding AV, rather than HiFi Stereo. Perhaps you should move your questions to a more appropriate section of this forum. I say that as a constructive suggestion.

My own findings of RoomPerfect (in the Lyngdorf 3400 I had on loan) is that it doesn't improve the fidelity of 2 channel music, but neither does Dirac Live (in my NAD M33) for that matter. The trouble is (my conclusion after many trials) is that the additional signal processing that the signal undergoes does suffer a loss in ultimate quality, though I accept that it may well smooth out the response curve and help with multi-speaker setup. In a true HiFi system, there are better ways to correct for room anomalies.
 

Mark.Yudkin

Distinguished Member
You appear to have problems regarding AV, rather than HiFi Stereo. Perhaps you should move your questions to a more appropriate section of this forum. I say that as a constructive suggestion.
Since the TDA-1120 is a hi fi stereo amplifier, I would think this to be the correct forum.

Not everybody limits their use of a stereo setup to playing music only. I always ran my TV through my stereo (since 1984). So I think it's perfectly fair to ask about optimizing such an application here.

Just a constructive remark, of course.

---

XLR - RCA cables can be very hit and miss. As a design, they are meant to "sort of work", meaning you generally get some signal, but you can have all sorts of noise floor and there's no predictability when you do it. To connect balanced - unbalanced properly you need a balun (Wikipedia explains in detail). Some people find such cables to be fantastic and will disagree with me, so you'll have to make up your own mind.
 
Last edited:

larkone

Member
My own findings of RoomPerfect (in the Lyngdorf 3400 I had on loan) is that it doesn't improve the fidelity of 2 channel music, but neither does Dirac Live (in my NAD M33) for that matter. The trouble is (my conclusion after many trials) is that the additional signal processing that the signal undergoes does suffer a loss in ultimate quality, though I accept that it may well smooth out the response curve and help with multi-speaker setup. In a true HiFi system, there are better ways to correct for room anomalies.
As an owner of two Lyngdorf stereo amps this statement is the complete opposite of my experience
 

gava

Well-known Member
From reports on this forum both the KEF LS50 Meta and Dynaudio Special 40 are excellent with the 1120 and active subs.

And of course there are the Lyngdorf speakers themselves.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
Since the TDA-1120 is a hi fi stereo amplifier, I would think this to be the correct forum.

Not everybody limits their use of a stereo setup to playing music only. I always ran my TV through my stereo (since 1984). So I think it's perfectly fair to ask about optimizing such an application here.

Just a constructive remark, of course.

---

XLR - RCA cables can be very hit and miss. As a design, they are meant to "sort of work", meaning you generally get some signal, but you can have all sorts of noise floor and there's no predictability when you do it. To connect balanced - unbalanced properly you need a balun (Wikipedia explains in detail).
Yes, I agree and apologise to the OP. It was his mention of "quality of video files" that led to my thinking that this was part of an AV setup.

It leads me further to believe that he should perhaps look to other ways to reduce his room-generated problems as, with just 2 speakers, it's usually possible to get good sound without subjecting the full frequency signal to an additional layer of processing.
 

gava

Well-known Member
After turning on RP, compared with DDRC-24, TDAI-1120's sound field and low-frequency dive are indeed better, music and movies are more atmospheric, However, I feel that there are too many low-frequency volume and some medium and high frequency,not up to expectations

That was my experience as well with my 1120 trial. Overall music at low volumes sounded very nice, and honestly that's really impressive. The overall coherence of the bass integration was excellent. It clearly was doing something very clever and different to Dirac and my DDRC-24.

The ability to simply adjust gain on the optical input from the TV was very useful, allowing me to get volume parity from my streamer and TV.

Unfortunately even with active subs I felt it was underpowered for my speakers, and although it sounded good at low and medium volumes it couldn't push enough power through for the occasional blast, and I felt it struggled sometimes with the dynamic range for some classical music.

The biggest disappointment however was that with RP on the soundstage simply collapsed compared to when RP was switched to bypass. Unfortunately once I heard that and verified it across multiple tracks I could not unhear it. The whole point of the 1120 is that it is an affordable entry into the RP system.

I certainly would not say that the 1120 it's not a very interesting and good amplifier, and if I had purchased it I would no doubt have adapted somehow.

For my purposes however I felt that the 3400 would have been required and/or a change in speakers too and that was outside of my price and change appetite.
 
Last edited:

Hear Here

Active Member
As an owner of two Lyngdorf stereo amps this statement is the complete opposite of my experience
I think this is exagerated as you get up the speaker quality ladder. Mediocre speakers won't suffer the sparkle factor loss I refer to anywhere near as much as high excitement factor speakers costing silly money. As I have such speakers, I can immediately notice that something is missing when any DSP that's included in a full-range amp is engaged - even ones such as Dirac Live that only ADJUST low frequencies - it still processes the entire frequency range, as does RP and MARS.
 

larkone

Member
@Hear Here Well I don't think Rega RS7s are mediocre and these have been swapped out for the wife friendly option on Lyngdorf MH2/BW2 setup sited exactly as Lyngdorf recommend- also not mediocre. The biggest improvement was the huge soundstage that opened up, it was good with the Regas but the Lyngdorf speakers took it to a whole new level.

I think the people who have issues with RP not improving the sound are either unlucky that they have a room that cannot be corrected or they do not properly follow the correct setup. I have had several friends buy the 1120 and in the couple of cases that the sound was not improved when they ran RP was easily sorted by re-running RP according to Lyngdorf's instructions rather than trying to second guess and introduce their own 'improvements'.
 

Hear Here

Active Member
I think the people who have issues with RP not improving the sound are either unlucky that they have a room that cannot be corrected or they do not properly follow the correct setup.

I think you should have said that we are lucky (not unlucky) in having rooms that aren't improved by DSP! This means we've achieved the aim of getting rooms and speakers set up well enough that DSP cannot improve matters further without resorting to DSP. In fact the reverse, they are liable to reduce sound quality in well set up systems.

The RP instructions are easy enough to follow and I ran the procedure a number of times. Similarly with DL and MARS only a couple of times. With DSP, the sparkle factor was always slightly reduced, but also imaging isn't as precise. This is a feature that AG speakers offer in abundance and I want to retain it. It's easy enough to demonstrate if you're ever this way. Engaging DSP unavoidably requires additional signal processing and this is never o good thing if it can be avoided. Similar in this respect to tone controls, graphic equalisers and other manipulative signal processing. The old Quad adage of the ideal amp being “a straight wire with gain” still remains fundamentally viable.

I know this view is not popular on this particular (Lyngdorf supporting) forum, but I've never heard a convincing argument as to WHY some people here contradict my claim that signal processing should be avoided if possible for the reasons I've suggested.
 
Last edited:

gava

Well-known Member
@Hear Here Well I don't think Rega RS7s are mediocre and these have been swapped out for the wife friendly option on Lyngdorf MH2/BW2 setup sited exactly as Lyngdorf recommend- also not mediocre. The biggest improvement was the huge soundstage that opened up, it was good with the Regas but the Lyngdorf speakers took it to a whole new level.

I think the people who have issues with RP not improving the sound are either unlucky that they have a room that cannot be corrected or they do not properly follow the correct setup. I have had several friends buy the 1120 and in the couple of cases that the sound was not improved when they ran RP was easily sorted by re-running RP according to Lyngdorf's instructions rather than trying to second guess and introduce their own 'improvements'.

Well it seems like you want to have it both ways: Roomperfect is brilliant and incredibly easy to use, but if it doesn't work then it's because it wasn't done properly.

From the glowing praise on this forum I fully expect it to be amazing and be totally blown away in every respect.

I ran it multiple times and got up to 97% room knowledge each time. Roomperfect didn't make everything worse, it made some things better, but it made some important things (to me) worse. Also it was still possible (rarely) to excite the room mode causing horrible boom with sustained notes at the right frequency with a few organ and electronic tracks. These were not evident with short notes at that frequency.

My system does need some correction for my narrow (-15dB!! Q=3) room mode at 73Hz, but I found overall I felt I lost more than I gained compared to miniDSP & Dirac correction. Soundstage doesn't vanish with my DDRC24 and the room boom doesn't happen. Are you saying that's simply not possible?

What exactly is your claim? That "Roomperfect" is actually perfect (it's not a marketing thing) and that no other system or lack thereof however configured could possibly be as good or even better?
 

Hear Here

Active Member
My system does need some correction for my narrow (-15dB!! Q=3) room mode at 73Hz,
That's interesting. How did you measure this so precisely? I'm envious as my speakers have the ability to adjust exactly what you describe, but I have no ways of ascertaining exactly where or how big any adjustments are needed. Did you use a calibrated mic and REW?

The trouble with the Avabtgarde XD software is that it doesn't come with a calibrated microphone and the software simply shows a straight line that one can adjust to compensate for bumps and troughs. So, if I had the identical problem to yours, I could easily grab one of the 10 points along this line and drag it sideways to 73 Hz, then up by 15 dB to compensate for the - 15 dB measured trough. The table under the line alows Q to be adjusted for each of these 10 points. The resultant line would remain pretty flat apart from a 15 dB peak at 73 Hz. The XD software is embedded in the speaker's bass amp, so has no effect whatsoever on the upper frequencies that deliver the "tingle factor" that these speakers offer.
 

gava

Well-known Member
That's interesting. How did you measure this so precisely? I'm envious as my speakers have the ability to adjust exactly what you describe, but I have no ways of ascertaining exactly where or how big any adjustments are needed. Did you use a calibrated mic and REW?

Yes UMIK-1 that came with the DDRC24 measured with REW, you download the calibration files from miniDSP from the mic serial #.

REW has a very interesting "continuous measurement" function which allows you move the mic slowly around the desired listening area (similar to the Dirac broad idea) and takes a measurement every couple of seconds, so you can get hundreds of measurements to average over a wide range of positions. This helps to even out position specific issues and leave only the room issues behind.

REW actually returned a 12 level EQ recommendation, but the one that stands out is the narrow 73Hz problem with 65Hz and 80Hz being just fine.

So for now I have the 73Hz issue dialled in to the miniDSP, and let Dirac smooth out everything else up to around 300Hz and then leave everything above that alone. I cannot tell any difference in the high registers (soundstage, etc) with Dirac on or off, but my whole signal is passing through the miniDSP so I cannot really replicate your configuration.

Running everything off my Marantz amp at low or moderate volumes doesn't seem to enhance the upper registers by comparison, but I don't have Avantgarde speakers. :)

When my new NAD amp arrives I will be able to run the subs from it just with Dirac, or alternatively run them through the miniDSP if I feel like I need extra correction there.

I am not Lyngdorf bashing at all. I didn't have a chance to, but feel pretty confident that if I'd swapped my LS50s back into the system it would have performed very well and I would have loved it. It just didn't quite work for my speakers and room as I was hoping, and I definitely needed more power for my speakers.

P.S. the adjustment is -15dB the room mode is +15dB at 73. It sure does kick when the right music comes along - it's low enough that it's not exactly scary, but still. You have a much bigger room though, with interesting curvature - I expect any bass issues you might have would be quite interesting.
 
Last edited:

Hear Here

Active Member
REW has a very interesting "continuous measurement" function which allows you move the mic slowly around the desired listening area (similar to the Dirac broad idea) and takes a measurement every couple of seconds, so you can get hundreds of measurements to average over a wide range of positions.

This is interesting. I've only once run REW measurements and that was using a friend's computer loaded with REW and his UMIK-1 mic. He hadn't used it much before and I suspect we didn't perform as comprehensive measurement as you describe. In fact we placed the mic only at the listening position and (if I remember correctly) the system only generated 3 very short frequency sweeps - for each speaker and for both speakers. Perhaps I should purchase my own calibrated mic and try to perform a comprehensive measurement. Trouble is I'm pretty incompetant when it comes to mastering or using complex computer systems like REW!
 

larkone

Member
@gava & @Hear Here Gents how is you both basically telling the OP he has wasted his money buying a Lyngdorf when he actually wants help buying speakers for the same. Perhaps you should take your opinions to another thread rather than hijacking this one.
 
Last edited:

JW music

Standard Member
You appear to have problems regarding AV, rather than HiFi Stereo. Perhaps you should move your questions to a more appropriate section of this forum. I say that as a constructive suggestion.

My own findings of RoomPerfect (in the Lyngdorf 3400 I had on loan) is that it doesn't improve the fidelity of 2 channel music, but neither does Dirac Live (in my NAD M33) for that matter. The trouble is (my conclusion after many trials) is that the additional signal processing that the signal undergoes does suffer a loss in ultimate quality, though I accept that it may well smooth out the response curve and help with multi-speaker setup. In a true HiFi system, there are better ways to correct for room anomalies.
Although this is not the answer I need,thank you anyway.
After testing, the movie files of Remux version will still have the problem of losing the off box feeling in the same scene. And I also tested it on ddrc-24,the problem also exists.
I guess there should be a problem with the sound channel fusion of the film itself.
 
Last edited:

gava

Well-known Member
@gava & @Hear Here Gents how is you both basically telling the OP he has wasted his money buying a Lyngdorf when he actually wants help buying speakers for the same. Perhaps you should take your opinions to another thread rather than hijacking this one.

This isn't the 1120 fanboy thread. The OP said he had 3 problems we were sharing that we have experienced similar issues and it's probably not that he is at fault, just that Roomperfect isn't actually perfect.

If you can read the first post and come to the conclusion that what the OP wanted was advice on which speakers to buy - well I'm not sure what to even say to that, except perhaps to read it again.

I have the DDRC24 - the same as the OP's previous experience.

Having both tried the Lyngdorf and found it to be a good amplifier but not suited for us, we don't chip in to the fan thread anymore. But this wasn't that.

I understand that you get offended if someone doesn't think Lyngdorf is the unequivocal pinnacle of all sound systems, but perhaps you might explain which threads are not going to subject to "Lyngdorf wrongthink patrols"? Or perhaps just use the ignore button?
 

deantown

Distinguished Member
I‘ve been following all the 1120 threads with an interest in buying one, but there does seem to be a fair few things that isn’t so good about them. I also noticed that if anyone says anything against said unit the fan boys don’t like it.
I’m not sure there are any products without “problems” out there.
 

DT79

Distinguished Member
@JW music, taking it back to your original post, and assuming you want to make the 1120 work, here is what i would suggest for each of the issues:
1) noise - it’s probably the XLR to RCA cables at fault, so try a different pair or the balanced to unbalanced converter I shared (I think on another thread where you asked the same question)
2) in relation to the bass frequencies being too strong, it is possible to influence the end result of room perfect. You can add further room measurements, so try adding one with the microphone placed close (<20cm) from the rear wall and see what difference that makes. if not enough the add another close to wall measurement somewhere else in the room. This will rein the bass in a little. Do them one at a time though as you can’t take them away if you go too far. You should also experiment with the voicings. Source, amp, speakers, content - what are the chances that the way that combination sounds will be perfectly to anyone’s taste 100% of the time? That’s what the voicings are for, to tailor the sound without any deterioration. You can also try doing different RP set-ups with your speakers in slightly different positions in relation to the front wall. At least try both the position you originally had them in and close up against the front wall.
3) if that happens with some content and not others then it’s probably the content.

Hope that helps.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Panasonic 2022 OLED TV hands-on, Picture Settings Discussions, Hi-Fi and AV News & More
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Latest News

Movies Podcast | Maverick IMAX Review, 4K Disc News and More
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
What's new on Netflix UK for June 2022
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Triangle announces new wireless Borea Active bookshelf speakers
  • By Ian Collen
  • Published

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom