1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

2nd hand Tag or New Denon/Pioneer/??? - Opinions

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by fbs, Dec 15, 2002.

  1. fbs

    fbs
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    15
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    In holding pattern near Glasgow
    Ratings:
    +1
    Opinions/advice sought.

    After over two years of skulking around these and other forums as well as dealers in and around the Glasgow area I've decided to do something about my complete lack of multi-channel sound. But beforehand would appreciate any thoughts you may have on the choices I'm considering. So IYHO...

    would I be better buying a new...

    1. Pioneer AX10i
    2. Denon AVC-A1SE

    or a second hand

    3. Tag McLaren AV32R & 100x5R

    I'm really attracted to the upgradability of the Tag kit but with the AV192R in the wings - is it likely to still have the same level of support? The Denon or Pioneer units may just be a stop gap till I can afford something higher up the AV food-chain but then again if they're up to the job then I may be happy to stick with them for a bit.

    TIA.

    Steve
     
  2. Lowrider

    Lowrider
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No doubt the TAG AV32R, but with a different power, Bryston is the best at a reasonable price...

    Besides sounding much better than the alternatives you mention, it is upgradeable, and should stay upgradeable for a long time...
     
  3. PFM

    PFM
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2000
    Messages:
    451
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Barton Upon Humber
    Ratings:
    +17
    Do the Tag, you will not regret it, I demoed them all before settling on the Tag,


    and the upgrade path.... wow!:cool:
     
  4. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,070
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +669
    We're discussing that in another thread. :) Depends on how you define "reasonable". But I think Lowrider and I (and others) are in agreement that the Tag power amp is not good value for money. The Arcam P7 is cheaper, has 7 channels rather than 5, and (IMO) sounds better. A Bryston 9B or Meridian 558 is definitely better still, but also substantially more expensive.
     
  5. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,881
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,038
    IMHO this is almost a pointless question. How can you compare a Tag setup with an A1SR?

    The A1SR is £2100 new, you would be lucky to get a similar spec Tag system for double that second hand!

    I have an A1SR, its a superb bit of kit. If I had the money, I would buy Tag. Is it worth double the cost of the Denon in sound quality? Nowhere near but it is better without doubt.

    Don't forget, you also need a decent DVd player and speakers to make the most of the kit, otherwise you will never benefit.

    Just my thoughts :)
     
  6. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Like everyone else here,if I were you,I'd take the Tag(I did just that myself).
    The build quality is superb,and the setup is a dream....also,as others have said,the after-sales service and upgrade path are amazing.
    Another thing,as Lowrider said,try different power amps,as whilst beautifully made,the Tag power amps are a bit soft in the bass registers,and especially so when compared with Bryston or Krell.
    You can also try the TagMclaren website for used equipment,as they have a very good used sales section there.
     
  7. Lowrider

    Lowrider
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Compared with Bryston TAG 100x5 is a bit soft in bass and treble...
     
  8. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,070
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +669
    You notice it more with the bass, though. First time I heard a Tag 5x100R I had to ask if they'd forgotten to switch the subwoofer on...
     
  9. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Glad it's not just my ears that thought the Tags a bit soft.....for pure AV amps they're pretty good,but no match for even old Krells.
    If Tag could tighten them up a bit they'd have a real killer of an amp....I was just fortunate when I auditioned some Nautilus 805s that I knew the Tag amps had that sonic character otherwise I might have chosen different speakers!
     
  10. fbs

    fbs
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    15
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    In holding pattern near Glasgow
    Ratings:
    +1
    Guys many thanks for the replies. I'll try and arrange a dem with some other power Amps.

    The A1SR is £2100 new, you would be lucky to get a similar spec Tag system for double that second hand!

    Yup appreciate that but as this is my first system I'm bound to be impressed by any of the kit I hear - unless I start with the Tag first. :D I nearly bought a Sony 925 + Pascals a couple of years ago I was so impressed with the fact that there was sound coming from the rear speakers :blush:

    Don't forget, you also need a decent DVd player and speakers to make the most of the kit, otherwise you will never benefit.

    Yup considering the 757i with the Pioneer, a 3800 with the Denon and the DVD32R with you-know-what. I've deliberately stepped my choices as you spotted to see if the cost/benefit are of the same order of magnitude. I am gonna have to compromise on the speakers just now - will have to be something like Gallos cos I promised her-in-doors I wouldn't pollute the living room with any "wooden boxes" - well mibbes just an fitted oak one for her :D I've got a large spare room that I plan to use as a HC so a speaker upgrade will defo happen - but that's at least a year away.

    This is part of the reason for the post - am I wasting my time with Gallos and Tag - when the speakers might not do it justice. The only person I've heard of that's used these with the Tag is Nick Rhodes and he seemed fairly happy. I'll mibbe try and get down to Stereo, Stereo for a dem cos I think they have all the necessary bits.

    You can also try the TagMclaren website for used equipment,as they have a very good used sales section there.

    Visit it everyday :blush: . I'm waiting to hear back from the Tag Helpdesk who are selling a couple of AV32Rs.


    Thanks again.
     
  11. AOD

    AOD
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    710
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4
    Do also take a look at www.ex-dem.co.uk as well. Very handy for trawling through websites of several different hi fi sites.

    It helped me find my AV32R that I picked up at the weekend from Audio T for £1500. :D :D

    One dealer on there has a very good spec model for £2400 (in black though) or £2399 if you want to be exact.
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    and is much better in the important mids

    This pro one / anti other amp is miss-leading. All the amps mentioned here are QUALITY kit. As someone who has done mutiple Tag / Bryston demos in the last 6 months I can honestly say there are times I prefer the Tag, others the Brystons and times when I can't tell the difference. Try before you buy, it is not as clear cut and some would have you believe.
     
  13. Lowrider

    Lowrider
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I didn´t say anything about the mids... ;)

    Neither about quality, and there are those who prefer tubes, vinyl, electrostatics...:p
     
  14. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    all I am saying is there are some amps I prefer the Tag and others I prefer the Bryston. Try before you buy. In reality they are all good. :p
     
  15. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    Thats the problem with amps/speakers etc.....everyone has their own preferences,and there are manufacturers out there with a solution(at a price!)for all of us.....as before...try before you buy....a good dealer should be happy to not only dem the gear in the shop,but also let you take it home and try,as the sound in your living room will be very different from that in the shop.:cool:
     
  16. lovegroova

    lovegroova
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,547
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Herts
    Ratings:
    +304
    You could perhaps get the AV32R and a cheaper power amp.

    I run the Tag with a Rotel RMB-1095, and it is certainly impressive for the money. You can get a 2nd hand AV32R for as little as £1,500 and a 2nd hand RMB-985MkII for around £500, so £2,000 will get you a fine sounding system which you can easily upgrade in future, the AV32 via Tag and you could either sell the RMB985 or use it for the rears and get a 2 or 3 channel amp for the front.
     
  17. AOD

    AOD
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    710
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +4
    A very good point.

    It's very helpful if you can tell the dealer what kit you'll be using it with. When I had a dem of an AV32R the dealer went to some pains to use speakers from the same brand that I have at home (KEF Q series) so I would get a reasonable approximation to how it would sound.

    Of course dealers don't stock every brand under the sun which is where the home dem really comes into its own. That and it also allows you to get some good feedback from the other half on the visual aspects of the kit. ;)
     
  18. life sucks

    life sucks
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Are you doing anything else then testing and checking diverse kits. Ever listen some music for pleasure?
     
  19. fbs

    fbs
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    15
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    In holding pattern near Glasgow
    Ratings:
    +1
    Top stuff gents - ta very much.
     
  20. fbs

    fbs
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    Messages:
    15
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    In holding pattern near Glasgow
    Ratings:
    +1
    I've gone for the Tag. AV32R should be with me on Monday - just need to sort out Amp... and then break the news to the missus that I want a DVD32R too!!

    :D :D :D :D :D :D
     
  21. Lowrider

    Lowrider
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Good choice, enjoy... :D
     
  22. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    Of course I do and probably have a collection to frighten many which I use regular use, does that stop me having other hobbies as well, like hardware / electronics? :(

    Tag, good call:)
     

Share This Page

Loading...