2910 - picture/sound sync problem

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by burgor57, Aug 14, 2006.

  1. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Anyone got any idea about this problem?
    I just took delivery and set up my new Denon 2910 and Paioneer PDP-426SXE.

    At first look everything is wonderful - very impressed. Then last night I sampled a look at my DVD of Steely Dan in concert 'Two Against Nature', expecting to be joyfully entertained. However, there is a serious picture/sound sync problem with this disc, not seen on watching movies.

    The 2910 is outputting the signal as progressing 720p via HDMI.

    Anyone got any ideas whats up?
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    If it happens on just that disc then it could well be a mastering problem. Some discs do suffer from lip-sync errors. If your Amp has a master audio delay setting you can cure it that way. Any chance you can test the disc on another player to see what happens??

    Alternatively, try different resolutions from the player and see if the same happens.
     
  3. burgor57

    burgor57
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    I have watched this DVD many time on my previous budget DVD player with no problems at all.
     
  4. Jase

    Jase
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    Strange it's not apparent on other discs though. Try another resolution and see if the problem still exists.
     
  5. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Well I tried that last night with no joy. I'll try again this eveing. Funny thing is I thought I noticed it on playing the Eagles DVD too, but it was only at the begining and it was only slight so I ignored it.

    Wonder if anyone else has had this problem? Is it a settings issue on the Denon 2910, or a wrong setting on thew Pionerer PDP-436SXE that conflicts with this DVD? Or is there a ppossible problem with the new 2910?
     
  6. justsurfing55

    justsurfing55
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    I have a Pioneer 436SXE too and a Denon 1920 and it always showed lipsync problems with most of my DVDs. I cured the problem with the AUDIO DELAY feature on my receiver (Denon 2807).
     
  7. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Well that surprises me. I'm a little sorry to hear this. My cheapo DVD player never gave me these problems. I'll have to check my AV-amp to see if it has a sync delay function (never looked for it before). Is this likely to need setting to different values for different discs? Is this a common problem I've just never heard of before?

    Anyone out there got the same setup as me, and by chance got the same Steely Dan DVD? Would love to hear if you get the same problem. And has anyone got an explanation for it?
     
  8. Jase

    Jase
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    Video Scaling/Processing can introduce lip-sync problems but it can also be down to duff mastering (some DTS tracks are known to have lip-sync errors). Some players automatically adjust for this but you can't really correct a disc that has an error to start with. An Amp with audio delay can help to some extent but you may find the sync varies throughout the film so you'll be there adjusting it every five minutes.
     
  9. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Noooo. Don't tell me all this. This is not good to hear. I played this DVD many times on my budget DVD player and it never gave me lip sync problems, even playing the DTS audio. And to be fair it was not at all bad sound and picture for a budget DVD player - it took some persuading to get my other half it was worth 'upgrading'. And who want's to be fiddling with sync settings all the time. Come on - someone tell me they have a Denon 2910 and don't have this problem!
     
  10. Jase

    Jase
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    We've got a 2910 as well and don't see any lip-sync problems (connected to a Panasonic AE900 PJ via HDMI). I don't have the Steely Dan disc to test out though.
     
  11. twistedddx

    twistedddx
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    I have a denon 2910 not to your particular screen but I have never had any lipsync issues with it on any disc I own (and I own many)
     
  12. Crustyloafer

    Crustyloafer
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    Switch off the scaling on the player, it will be creating a delay as well as the screen's own processing. These two delays combined make it very noticeable. A budget player like the Denon 2910 should not be relied upon to have high qulaity scaling, it is best left turned off.
     
  13. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Didn't think of the Denon 2910 as a 'budget player'. And one reason I baught it was for the upscaling which I understood was quite good. So are you suggesting I leave the upscaling to the Pioneer PDP-436SXE? It would make sense to only have upscaling processing done once that fair enough. To be honest I didn't realise the plasma TV was doing any upscaling. Are you confident that I should let the Pioneer plasma do the upscaling then?
     
  14. LoadofTosh

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    Just try it. The decision is reversible!
     
  15. meltonboy

    meltonboy
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    I have had this issue myself on occasion and put it down to the 2910's well know fussy nature with certain DVDs especially copied disks and dvd-Rw's. I have to say that i've been ok with 99% of normal movie dvds though.

    Whilst the feature of time delay in this years denon amps sounds good on paper, this is surely only useful if the issue is constant and consistent.

    The upscaling feature of the unit is probably the reason you bought it (it was for me), but it does seem that this can introduction problems very occasionally. the one i particularly remember was the latest special edition of "a fistful of dollars". I began to wonder if it was actually dubbed...
     
  16. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Hmm. Didn't know anything about 'Denon's well known fussy nature'. I haven't played any copied discs yet. The disc in question is an original Steely Dan 'Two Against Nature' DVD. I wil try turning off the Denon's upscaling function this evening to see if that solves the problem. But I wonder then - why buy a Denon 2910? I thought I had done a fair bit of research on which DVD player to buy, and got the firm impression the Denon 2910 was a top contender in this price bracket. I just wasn't expecting this kind of issue.
     
  17. Crustyloafer

    Crustyloafer
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    Don't misunderstand me, the 2910 is a fine player, but the sort of scaling abilities that you get on a £500 player are not worth using. Video upscaling onboard players seems to have become a bit of a fad with manufacturers recently. I guess they needed to have one more feature to add so they could sell more players. I guess the research you did was heavily based on reading magazines and not by speaking to an actual dealer who knew what they were talking about.

    All Plasmas and LCDs have scalers onobard, they have to so that the images fed into them can be scaled to match the resolution of the panel. Feeding a 720P signal into a Pioneer plasma is no use either as they have a vertical resolution of768 pixels, meaning it still has to scale up the 720 line signal being fed into it up to it's own resolution of 768. It is also worth noting that the Pioneer plasmas do not actually accept a 768 line signal into their HDMI inputs anyway.

    If you want to see scaling that really does significantly improve on the picture from standard defintion sources then I would recommend getting hold of an iScan VP30 with the ABT102D board fitted, a truly awesome bit of kit and will make all your souces look superb.

    As for DVD-Audio discs, if you want to hear them played well and I mean really well then have a listen to the Arcam DV79 or DV29, they completley embarrass the Denon players for audio quality.
     
  18. Growlerman

    Growlerman
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    I've got a 2910 and have not noticed any lip synch issues yet!, however I'm not too impressed with the upscaling performed by this player. I find that with the 2910 set to 720p feeding my Panny 32LXD60 digital artifacts are much more visible than letting the Panny do the upscaling. Overall I'm quite dissappointed with both the video and audio performance of the 2910. I will be taking a closer look at the Arcam DV137 (when funds allow!).
     
  19. meltonboy

    meltonboy
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    Well overall i'm pretty happy with mine and have found that the 720p scaling from the player is better than using the screens own scaling, but that is my own opinion from when i set it up and messed about with it.

    I didn't know about it being fussy with some DVDs until i started on this forum, which was after i bought it. However, i rarely use anything other than standard movies, which have been mostly fine.

    I can't really complain if a mate comes round with a copy of a dvd (even if copied from original) and the performance isn't quite 100%. If that was to happen again, i'd try a 576p output, as suggested.

    The prospect of trading up to a 2930, 3930 or even the arcam is tempting, but i think i'll hold off until the HD and Blue Ray players get tempting, proabably next year.
     
  20. burgor57

    burgor57
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    OK, I guess I will try the idea to 'turn of the 2910 upscaling' and see what I get. I had a quick look last night and didn't see how to do that, so if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great.

    I will look into the iScanVP30 and the Arcam DV29 / 79. I expect I'm looking at a lot money am I?

    I have another query however. I have noticed now an odd problem with the definition at the edges of moving objects, where the defining edges are momentarily broken into horizontal lines. Reading around I presume this is a problem with interlacing. I am seeing this particularly on my Freeview programs rather than DVD films. Can the Pioneer PDP-436SXE solve this by displaying the TV pictures in Progressive Scan? Sorry if I seem a little ignornorant about this, it's all a bit new and I value the comments form this forum.

    Cheers
     
  21. Jase

    Jase
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    burgor57

    To turn off upscaling as such just select 480p/576p as the output rather than 720p or 1080i.

    What you're seeing on Freeview sounds like combing. Your plasma is already showing a progressive image as plasma's are by their nature a progressive device. The effect you're seeing will be down to how good or badly it's internal processing copes with video/film material. This can be improved with an external video processor but depends if you want to go that route or not.
     
  22. burgor57

    burgor57
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    Thanks Jase

    I'll try that upscaling off option this evening. As far as combing viewing Freeview goes, I am really surprised I would see this on the Pioneer PDP-436SXE, as this got such great reviews. I assume that the Freeview broadcast is interlaced, and I assumed the plasma would be able to display the broadcast without seeing evidence of combing. I am still reading up on this subject and confess I don't have it totally sussed yet. If anyone else is viewing Freeview and is NOT getting this combing effect, please tell me what I can do (apart from adding extra processing boxes). I can't believe this wouldn't be handled by the plasma. Or am I just wrong, and it is totally expected to see combing on Freeview broadcasts on a modern 'recommended' plasma? That really would surprise me!
     
  23. Jase

    Jase
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    I see it sometimes on my Panny PWD6 and that's using the Faroudja Processing and scaling in my Amp. Depends on the content though. It will appear briefly if the material switches from film to video or vice versa or if there's scrolling text going across the screen. Used to do the same with my Crystalio video processor, although that was better than my previous Lumagen Pro S.
     

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