25 or 50p video in Europe ?

Martin68

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As I understand it correctly, camcorders and cameras with video capabilities are designed to shoot video in Europe and most of the world at 25p and 50p (formally known as PAL frame rates in the analog days) only the American markets and a very few others shoot at 30p or 60p, as most of the world has a 50hz electrical grid and an established video format which matches the 50hz grid.
So why is it that smartphones still don't offer compatible frame rates for 50hz countries, with them only shooting video at 24 30 and 60p? These framerates work perfectly in North America but for the rest of the world they are not compatible. The main reason is that lights flicker, and you can't use the phone camera as a b role if your primary camera is a PAL version.
I want to point out that the Sony Xperia 1ii offers 25p in its cinema pro app and iPhone has recently added 25p in its latest software update for the promax, but for some reason, Sony do not offer 25p in its standard video app, and apple only offer it if you activate it. Its almost as if 50hz countries are less important for video than 60hz countries. I'm aware that all modern tvs can display 30p in a 50hz country, but flickering lights are a big problem that I'm really surprised that phone manufacturers still haven't addressed. Samsung sell their flagship phones with exynos processors for Europe and snapdragon for the US, yet the exinos version of the phone is still only 30p or 60 video designed for 60hz countries. This is obserd, do you think this madness will ever be corrected or is it already too late. I know I have moaned about this before, but it is really a problem that no one seems to complain about apart for a small few, as I'm guessing most sit in silence and simply put up with degraded flicking video. These phones are camcorder replacements, the video is often better than a camcorder, yet the format is not right for 50hz countries. Your views?
 
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Few people are bothered with this so it doesn't get to the front of the queue.
 
Yes but few people are bothered with 24p yet its been made more available, few people are bothered with picture quality in general, yet we see 8k video recording on smart phones, while not on proper camcorders yet. There are more people than you think who would like compatible frame rates that match the country they live in, in fact 3 quarters of the world. Had they all been offered 25p and 50p in the first place, then I'm quite sure none of them will be shooting in 30 and 60p when they notice the lights start flickering.
 
That is film frame rate.
 
Why did this 30/60 start in 50hz countries in the first place? my guess is that just about all developers are based in the USA, like microsoft, hence why computers run monitors at 60hz.
Back in the day, video equipment was all sold as 25i (formally known as PAL in the analog days, though the abbreviation is still used today for digital frame rates) then 25p, then 50p, these frame rates are still offered when you buy a dedicated camcorder in 50hz countries, but smart phones are so much more convenient as they often shoot better video than many cheaper camcorders and are always with us in our pocket, yet we can not take this video capability to its full advantage in 3/4 of the world at night with 50hz lights flicking, and also if we want to mix video shot between a PAL camcorder and a smart phone. But the worst part is flicking lights in 50 Hz countries, which i am really surprised the developers have not addressed this yet as the flicker is more of a problem than the 30p we are forced to shoot video in.
I'm fully aware that 3rd party apps allow 50hz frame rates such as filmic pro, but 3rd party apps dont take full advantage of the way stock apps are tweaked to maximum performance for the phone they are made for, also 3rd party apps dont have all the features of the stock app and cant be quick launched by a double press of the power button as is the case with Samsung phones.
If 50Hz frame rates are that "un needed" then why is broadcast tv still using them in 3/4 of the world?
 
Here is a good explanation, The guys speaks for Europe, but in reality 3/4 of the world has this problem. He also speaks about iphone in 2014, but only just in December 2020 Apple added 25p video recording capabilities to their iphone pro max which is a leap forward but I am an Android user ready to upgrade to the Note20 phone, so i'm really hoping we see the same upgrade from Samsung too but i'm not holding my breath. check out this video, you can clearly see the 50hz light flicker problem.
 
It an issue of sorts, but as most folk "don't care" - ( or don't notice, unless pointed out) - it's unlikely to be resolved.
Most video editors don't appear to mind and may fudge frames to match 50/60, 25/30 media . . . although it always helps if there is no problem in the first place.
My TV monitor switches to 60Hz when the PC is on... what that does to Edited 50p media I haven't noticed . . . .
fps was a big issue when discharge lamps were in use...but LEDs don't work the same way - so that issue has gone....

Good luck.
 
I'm not sure that is right... The Video-Editor creates the film in whatever fps you specify ( and some will up-load to YT at whatever definition you desire ),
When playing-back from a PC there is an issue whether the Graphics card determines the TV, via H\DMI handshake.
However a Media-Player software should be able to command the Graphics card to output 50fps if the TV has that capability.
Normally, I test-play my USB-memory stick films on a 3D BlueRay player (USB-input) , linked to my TV via HDMI -or- At a club, they will choose a Media=Player that has a list of Options.... so I don't think there is a need for any additional frames..... Yet most DVD/BD players claim to do "Up-scaling" - so that should work OK.

Cheers....
 
surely there must be some agreement to my OP though right?
Smartphones should be able to shoot the same frame rates as camcorders do for the country they are sold in. 50hz light flicker, integrating them and their video footage with existing PAL equipment, and that 3/4 of the world use PAL frame rates and 50Hz electrical grid. Surely someone must agree with me that there is a native problem here?
 
surely there must be some agreement to my OP though right?
Smartphones should be able to shoot the same frame rates as camcorders do for the country they are sold in. 50hz light flicker, integrating them and their video footage with existing PAL equipment, and that 3/4 of the world use PAL frame rates and 50Hz electrical grid. Surely someone must agree with me that there is a native problem here?
Yes i agree,my iPhone records 24 30 or 50P,so set my camera on 24P if i am going to use footage from both as that looks better than mixing frame rates.
 
Most video editors don't appear to mind and may fudge frames to match 50/60, 25/30 media . . . although it always helps if there is no problem in the first place.
My TV monitor switches to 60Hz when the PC is on... what that does to Edited 50p media I haven't noticed . . . .
fps was a big issue when discharge lamps were in use...but LEDs don't work the same way - so that issue has gone....

Good luck.
As a broadcast TV editor it drives me POTTY!!!! Even as I watch TV of an evening every dropped frame hurts my soul! Just been editing a series for BBC and some supply footage in an alien USA format (it's just a menu setting on most camcorders - and iPhones COULD do it easy if enabled) so I have to convert it to the European 25P or 50i spec. It gets mushy, may lose sync with the audio - basically I play 29.97P 'NTSC' videos at 119.88% to make them fit the UK/European broadcast frame rate.
ntsc Untitled.png


It's a VERY odd mathematical number. The picture suffers, the motion suffers, lights will flicker, audio may slip as it too has to be speeded up and pitch shifted down and it takes render time. A complete WASTE of time and quality. Drives me potty. Everyone should be able to select 25P or 50P or 50i or whatever works best within multiples of 50Hz. Simples. Off for a lie down ;-)
 

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