24p support with firmware upgrade

vipergrm

Well-known Member
Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone knows, is it possible for a set to gain native 24p support through a firmware upgrade? I know some of the newer sets claim to have 24p support but only do so by using a 3:2 pulldown method (back to 60hz) which makes it pointless.

Personally, I cannot see how this would be a problem but I am no expert. Could the firmware make the particular set use 2:2, 3:3 or 4:4 pulldown to eliminate judder? Thanks!
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
If the video processing chip is firmware upgradeable, and if the TV manufacturer had access to the required code and interface, and could justify the cost of having the R&D dept go out and work it out and get it programmed and tested and delivered to market then still only possibly. The glass itself would still have to be able to refresh at an integer multiple of 24p for it to receive a firmware upgraded signal which 2:2s or 3:3s the 24p to 48Hz or 72Hz.
 

Hillie

Novice Member
Without any more information, we can only say "maybe". It depends on a whole number of factors.
 

vipergrm

Well-known Member
If the video processing chip is firmware upgradeable, and if the TV manufacturer had access to the required code and interface, and could justify the cost of having the R&D dept go out and work it out and get it programmed and tested and delivered to market then still only possibly. The glass itself would still have to be able to refresh at an integer multiple of 24p for it to receive a firmware upgraded signal which 2:2s or 3:3s the 24p to 48Hz or 72Hz.
Thanks Liam, it doesn't look good then :(
 

vipergrm

Well-known Member
Liam,

What is your view on manufacturers claiming to support 24p when all they do is use 3:2 pulldown and convert the signal back to 60hz? Personally, I find this very misleading. What difference does it make? The LG PG6000 appears to only do 3:2 pulldown as does the 2008 Samsung plasmas. I'm just disappointed that manufacturers cannot be more honest.

Thanks, Viper :smashin:
 

nbat58

Active Member
Liam,

What is your view on manufacturers claiming to support 24p when all they do is use 3:2 pulldown and convert the signal back to 60hz? Personally, I find this very misleading. What difference does it make? The LG PG6000 appears to only do 3:2 pulldown as does the 2008 Samsung plasmas. I'm just disappointed that manufacturers cannot be more honest.

Thanks, Viper :smashin:
There should be some kind of a international law to stop them I think, or may be the false claim thingy may work.

It's like the unlimited (read the small print) broadband fiasco.
 

Hillie

Novice Member
Supporting a format is something else than displaying it natively. Don't worry guys, that'll be covered. ;)

It's starting to look like a crusade viper, so I'm pulling out. I'll give an update to the status of my screen when it finally comes (European/scandinavian edition) as there might well be a difference between UK and Europe mainland models, similar to what was found in some of the Panasonics.
 

vipergrm

Well-known Member
Supporting a format is something else than displaying it natively. Don't worry guys, that'll be covered. ;)

It's starting to look like a crusade viper, so I'm pulling out. I'll give an update to the status of my screen when it finally comes (European/scandinavian edition) as there might well be a difference between UK and Europe mainland models, similar to what was found in some of the Panasonics.
I can't wait to hear your thoughts Hillie. Let us know, please! :smashin:
 

badbob

Banned
Rockbox for plasma, maybe? Same principle, open source TV firmware, as long as the hardware supports it it'll be added. :D
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Liam,

What is your view on manufacturers claiming to support 24p when all they do is use 3:2 pulldown and convert the signal back to 60hz? Personally, I find this very misleading. What difference does it make? The LG PG6000 appears to only do 3:2 pulldown as does the 2008 Samsung plasmas. I'm just disappointed that manufacturers cannot be more honest.

Thanks, Viper :smashin:
My view isn't a good one. But so long as the market keeps buying based on spec sheets rather than actually seeing the things then brands like LG and Samsung will keep on doing it. Another one is contrast ratio: dynamic vs ansi vs on/off....
 

Hillie

Novice Member
I can't wait to hear your thoughts Hillie. Let us know, please! :smashin:

Don't worry, I'll keep you guys posted. Mine's supposed to be delivered around the end of the afternoon, early evening. If the shop doesn't screw up of course. In that case they can stuff it and I'll pick it up somewhere else. :)

It could also be a regional thing, which means that **potentially** you could overcome it by changing firmware (if the hardware platform supports it of course) to a region that works OK. The indications I've seen here in Sweden (few so far, but hey, they're at least consistent) all say 72Hz. I'll give it a try tonight with my Bladrunner disc. ;)


edit: To add to what Liam said: I mentioned something similar. The manufacturers have *support* for 1080/24p materials in their TVs. This does not mean that the viewing refresh rate will be a multiple of 24Hz, but not everybody reads the information equally well. LG in this case have been particularly vague with their info. Some areas have the 72Hz (i.e. full multiple of 24Hz) mentioned, but not everywhere and the way the info comes out is far from useful. I don't like it, but I'll see what my screen does. In case it doesn't do 72Hz (or at least judder free ;)) I can return it, as this shop explicitly advertises the judder free 72Hz.
 

pcookie

Novice Member
Am I right in thinking that the only Plasmas that do this properly are the Panasonics and Pioneers?

cookie
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Not all Panasonics.... Current Vieras and PF series do.

Pioneers have done it for years, and not only that will be able to take a 480i or 1080i film signal and do it's own 3:3 to display at judder-free 72Hz.
 

vipergrm

Well-known Member
Am I right in thinking that the only Plasmas that do this properly are the Panasonics and Pioneers?

cookie
I think you are correct. They are certainly the only ones that do it PROPERLY. The 2008 Panasonics all do it, but not the US models strangely. :smashin:
 

vipergrm

Well-known Member
My view isn't a good one. But so long as the market keeps buying based on spec sheets rather than actually seeing the things then brands like LG and Samsung will keep on doing it. Another one is contrast ratio: dynamic vs ansi vs on/off....
Yep, agreed. How can anyone quote a dunamic contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1? That is just ridiculously misleading, as is the '24p support'. :mad:
 

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