24p... Help!!!

Discussion in 'Home Entertainment Computers' started by crazyfool_1, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    hey guys,
    I've been trying to get lip sync free 24p playback on my 780g htpc for a couple of months now and after exhausting all of my options I finally made the plunge and bought a 4550 hoping it would fix it. Guess what??? Didn't make any difference. Atm I've tried powerdvd9 which is very out of sync and TMT3 which is out of sync a little but gets progressively worse. I would have bought an nvidia card instead but it needed to be low profile and passive, and seeing as there doesn't seem to be an nvidia card like this I'm now all out of options. So if anyone has any ideas I would really appreciate it... :confused:
    Thx
     
  2. Presuming Ed

    Presuming Ed
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    We'd need more info I think, in order to help.

    Are DVDs out of sync too? What about AVIs or standard TV if you have a source for it?

    Do you send sound and pictures to your TV or is the sound going to an amp and the picture go to your TV? Is it still out of sync if you plug headphones into the PC itself and listen to sound through that?

    What codecs are you using to decode the audio?
     
  3. jameson_uk

    jameson_uk
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    What TV do you have? How is your audio setup?

    Also as above what media is causing problems? Is it physical BD media?
     
  4. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    It only happens on 24p content such as blu ray whether it is ripped or the actual disc. I have a panasonic 32lzd80 and the sound/video is going straight to the tv via hdmi. And no I haven't tried listening through headphones, I'll give that a go and see.
     
  5. Jamestuk

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    When it's playing check how much load your processor is under. If it's struggling the picture will have a hard time keeping up with the audio which is relatively easy to process.
     
  6. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    yeh the load is less then 10% as all the decoding is done on the hardware... any other ideas?
     
  7. MikeK

    MikeK
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    Try playing a ripped file with another player - something like VLC media player, or Media Player Classic Home Cinema Edition, or KMplayer.
     
  8. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    thats a good point, I could mount one of my ripped blu rays and try and play the m2ts in another media player at 24p... after all of my attempts at getting this to work I stupidly never considered this...
     
  9. gvers

    gvers
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  10. crazyfool_1

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  11. crazyfool_1

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    ok so this is where I'm at... 4550 has gone and I'm back to onboard hd3200, I switched my system to vista to see if it made a difference but still the same issue even if I play the stream from the blu ray in vlc or wmp and now under vista it seems dvds aren't in sync anymore either... So... I am going to cut my losses and opt for an nvidia card so I need a little advice... Basically it has to be low profile, quiet and obviously need to play blu rays at 24p flawlessly... anyone got any ideas... so far the best I've seen is this 9500 GT but after all of the hassle I've had peoples ideas and experiences on this would be really appreciated...
     
  12. b3taboy

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  13. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    If you ever need HDMI audio - then beware that the nVidia cards are not capable of 5.1/7.1 PCM output via HDMI as they have no on-board sound device, and instead need a SPDIF feed from the motherboard and are limited to 2.0p PCM or DD/DTS legacy bitstreaming.

    Have you tried PowerDVD rather than Total Media Theater? ISTR that TMT was notorious for lipsync errors on ATI cards at 24Hz. Also are you running at 24Hz or 23Hz in your drivers. 23.976Hz - aka 23Hz - is the best refresh rate for 1080p Blu-ray replay, NOT 24Hz. Most 1080p BDs are mastered at 23.976Hz, and have to frame repeat a few frames every so often (causing a microstutter) if the PC is set to 24Hz refresh.
     
  14. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    yes I have tried reclock and it didn't help.. yes I have tried powerdvd7/8/9 which had the same problem... And no I didn't know that 23.976 should be at 23hz I assumed it should be 24hz as it still counts as 24p... thing is if my tv supports 24p will it handle a 23hz input
     
  15. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    You're misunderstanding me.

    Almost all "24p" content is shot and mastered at 23.976Hz.

    A standard Blu-ray player with a 1080/"24p" output is actually delivering a 1080/23.976Hz signal.

    Your TV with "24p" support is actually designed for 23.976Hz. (It will also accept a 24Hz signal - but that is because they are so similar)

    When you select "23Hz" in your driver settings the 23 is an abbreviation of 23.976Hz - or should be. It isn't a real 23Hz output - it is a 23.976Hz output.

    If you replay a 1080p Blu-ray (almost all of which are 23.976Hz - apart from a few with mastering issues) at 24Hz rather than 23.976Hz it will have to repeat a frame every so often to keep up. This frame repetition is known as micro-stuttering - and once you spot it, it can be very annoying.

    Similarly - if you are playing most 1080i Blu-rays or watching 480i or US 1080i content - then select 59Hz (actually 59.94Hz) rather than 60Hz. This is because US TV is actually shot at 59.94Hz NOT 60Hz. (*)

    (*) The 59.94 vs 60 difference (1000/1001 is the factor) is a result of the addition of colour to the US 60Hz B&W TV system in the mid 50s. If they had stuck at 60Hz the colour signal (which is locked to the line and field rate) would have possibly interfered with their sound carriers. By shifting the field rate, they shifted the line rate and also the frequency of the NTSC colour signal, avoiding the interference. However in doing so they introduced some nightmares - such as film having to shift from 24fps to 23.976fps (so that when transferred 3:2 it delivered 59.94Hz) and time-of-day timecode having to drop frames every so often to avoid mismatch between real time.
     
  16. tony_yates

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    I bleeding love it when you do that Stephen, I don't understand it but I love it :thumbsup:
     
  17. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    lol I get the first half about 24p and so I'll try out 23hz tomorrow and see what happens... Do you think that the difference between 23 and 24 hz could produce such large lip syncing issues though... I have noticed the micro stutter actually but I always put it down to the software... interesting...
     
  18. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Not sure it will make a difference to the audio - but it should stop (some of) the micro-stuttering (which I find intensely annoying). Was pleasantly surprised that 23,24, 59 and 60Hz refresh rates were available.

    I do remember that there were lots of people complaining about TMT and ATI "24Hz" lipsync issues. I'd try another replay solution before ditching any hardware.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  19. crazyfool_1

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    I've tried them all mate, PowerDVD 7/8/9, WinDVD 8/9 and TMT3... In both vista and xp with different drivers... Even the 4550 I bought to resolve the issue had the same syncing problem... It seems ati must hate me lol... Looks like I'm gonna have to go for a 9500gt which hopefully wont overheat my system and will play nice with 24p... fingers crossed...
     
  20. belongamick

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    Hi, how did you get on with this? I have exactly the same issue.

    Cheers,
    Belongamick
     
  21. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    Bought an nvidia 8200 motherboard lol... ati hates me
     
  22. belongamick

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    And it sorted it?

    Cheers
     
  23. crazyfool_1

    crazyfool_1
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    Actually no lol... I get no more syncing issues but the 8200 cant handle 1080p blu rays, drops alot of frames... I kinda gave up with the whole HD thing for now, gonna wait till the summer and rebuild with a dedicated gpu in a better ventialted case
     
  24. belongamick

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    :) cool, thanks anyway.
     
  25. baron samadi

    baron samadi
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    I just upgraded to a nvidea 9600GT as the ATI route is not so good. I think I got micro stuttering though and its on 23 fps in power dvd 9 on the info pain. I dint mind this card because my motherboard has on board Hd audio.
    What can help to get smoother play back?
     
  26. belongamick

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    I use Reclock to speed up 24 (23.976) fps material to 25fps. I then have my TV set to 50hz (so a multiple of 25). I couldn't get smooth playback when set to 24 (23.976) even though my tv was set to 24p.

    I would recommend trying Media Player Classic Home Cinema (mpc-hc) with its built in codecs with reclock and see if you get smoother playback. Once you have a working solution you can focus on getting PDVD to work.
     

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