2021 OLED Discussion (LG/Panasonic/Sony etc.)

[SimonST]

Rather than clog up several CES News threads covering an entire manufacturer(s) range of LCD/OLED TVs with specific OLED discussion/comparisons to other companies, maybe here would be a good place to have more general OLED discussion for the various 2021 models and how they might advance the technology compared to each other and with previous OLED TVs.


LG 2021 2nd Generation 'Evo' Panel:

"LG Display announced that it has developed and employed new OLED technologies, including new OLED materials and a new OLED device structure (with a new added layer) that enabled it to improve the efficiency of its large-area WOLED panels by around 20%. This enabled LGD to increase the brightness of its OLEDs." (Source: OLED-Info)

"LG OLED evo sets a new standard. The next-gen OLED panel has been redesigned to include an extra layer and a stronger emissive material. These optimize the structure of the panel and refining the wavelengths of light. The result is brighter*(*Internally measured with full screen white to be brighter than the LGE OLEDs.), punchier picture quality, and improved clarity of content" (Source: LG UK)

"The OLED evo (the new panel) emits light with more precise wavelength control, expressing a brighter and clearer picture quality compared to existing LG OLED screens" (Source: EKN.kr)

"LG claims that OLED evo produces more light per pixel, with better red and blue brightness and an added green element. The boosted brightness of the three colors combine to make the OLED evo panels brighter than any OLED before, offering punchier images and better HDR performance." (Source: Tom's Guide)


Which TVs have the new LGD (LGE 'Evo') panel?

Latest Update 18/07/2021

C1	G1	A8xJ	A90J	JZ1500/2000
55-65 = Both 77 = Evo 83 = Evo	All Evo	55-65 = Both 77 = Evo	All Evo + Heatsink	Not Evo + Heatsink

(Presumably production of the old non-Evo panel will eventually stop either later in 2021 or by some point in 2022 and the Evo panel will be used on all OLED TVs)

Note that the Evo panel on its own does not determine the brightness of the TV, the TV itself has software settings that adjust how the panel is used. Normally these will be inaccessible to home users, and while they can be accessed on the C1, this will almost certainly be changed in a firmware update, plus it was almost certainly invalidate the warranty if altered, not to mention there are no guarantees that adjusting the settings won't damage the TV in the long term


So far the LG G1 is the only 2021 OLED TV confirmed to have the Evo Panel.

The Sony A90J may or may not use it, details are scarce so far. What is known is that Sony are using an aluminium heatsink design to be able to boost brightness, similar to Panasonic. They also claim to be able to push all the sub-pixels (W+R+G+B), not just the white sub-pixel, which should improve colour volume and purity. (Source: AVF and TechRadar)

As things stand, JZ2000 continues to use the same panel/heatsink as the previous GZ2000 and HZ2000 (this may be clarified in a future Panasonic event):

As you would imagine, the chassis design is very similar to the outgoing models with the Custom Professional OLED panel not receiving any major upgrades for the new model. When asked, Panasonic stated that they had more or less reached the possible peak performance for the current OLED panels in terms of picture quality and peak brightness performance.

(Source: AVForums)


2021 OLED TVs

LG C1/G1 CES AVF Article
LG C1 Product Page
LG G1 Product Page (Only LG Electronics TV using Evo panel)

Panasonic JZ2000 CES AVF Article
Panasonic JZ2000 Product Page

Philips 706/806/86 AVF Article


Sony A80J/A90J CES AVF Article
Sony A80J Product Page
Sony A90J Product Page


Don't forget to leave any fanboy tendencies at the door. They're TVs, not precious loved ones

 

[golden phoenix]

MY precious @SimonST

i'm usually a Panasonic fanboy....but my mind is open to all! i just want the best i can get within my budget... i am tempted this year i must admit, currently the G1 is top of my list on paper.

 

[SimonST]

MY precious @SimonST

i'm usually a Panasonic fanboy....but my mind is open to all! i just want the best i can get within my budget... i am tempted this year i must admit, currently the G1 is top of my list on paper.

I honestly wanted the Panasonic to be in my choices this year, and maybe it still will, but their CES launch has done little to get me excited. If they were using any new hardware (new panel), I've no doubt they would have mentioned something about a new panel stack. Panasonic have been pulling out of TV sales, not increasing, so it doesn't look great in the long-term, but who knows. It could well be that their near-black handling is still the best, but I think the other end of the scale is where they're going to be trumped now, and for HDR that's going to be quite important.

Vincent did another video earlier, covering something I was having some thoughts on, namely which panels are being used by which manufacturer:



Obviously it's still all speculation, but it could be that there are two main methods to achieving these brighter panels; either the metal heatsink that Panasonic have used for the past few years, or the revised LGD panel that LG are using in their G1 series. As Vincent points out, I couldn't see any mention of aluminium, heatsinks or heat/thermal dissipation in any LG press releases, which could suggest they're just using a new panel to achieve higher brightness.

Sony on the other hand have gone to great lengths to talk about thermal performance with temperature monitoring that allows them to boost all the sub-pixels, which should not only increase brightness, but colour volume/purity. They specifically mention the aluminium heatsink, but in opposition to LG, they've not really talked about a new "second generation" panel or new panel structure/stack, which to me seems like it would be more marketable than a sheet of metal being added?

Could be that they're using a new panel and heatsink, but I'd be surprised if that was the case, although it would arguably offer even longer lifespan/better IR protection. Maybe 2021 is heatsink OR new panel and 2022 becomes heatsink AND new panel Gotta space out those improvements after all

 

[jmac]

I honestly wanted the Panasonic to be in my choices this year, and maybe it still will, but their CES launch has done little to get me excited. If they were using any new hardware (new panel), I've no doubt they would have mentioned something about a new panel stack. Panasonic have been pulling out of TV sales, not increasing, so it doesn't look great in the long-term, but who knows. It could well be that their near-black handling is still the best, but I think the other end of the scale is where they're going to be trumped now, and for HDR that's going to be quite important.

Vincent did another video earlier, covering something I was having some thoughts on, namely which panels are being used by which manufacturer:



Obviously it's still all speculation, but it could be that there are two main methods to achieving these brighter panels; either the metal heatsink that Panasonic have used for the past few years, or the revised LGD panel that LG are using in their G1 series. As Vincent points out, I couldn't see any mention of aluminium, heatsinks or heat/thermal dissipation in any LG press releases, which could suggest they're just using a new panel to achieve higher brightness.

Sony on the other hand have gone to great lengths to talk about thermal performance with temperature monitoring that allows them to boost all the sub-pixels, which should not only increase brightness, but colour volume/purity. They specifically mention the aluminium heatsink, but in opposition to LG, they've not really talked about a new "second generation" panel or new panel structure/stack, which to me seems like it would be more marketable than a sheet of metal being added?

Could be that they're using a new panel and heatsink, but I'd be surprised if that was the case, although it would arguably offer even longer lifespan/better IR protection. Maybe 2021 is heatsink OR new panel and 2022 becomes heatsink AND new panel Gotta space out those improvements after all

Will you be waiting another year then? Or is 2021 the one?
For me right now it's a toss up of the LG G1 evo 77" or Sony A90J 83".
Both look stunning.
regarding 2022 panel, remember Sony tend to keep the master series for 2 years.

 

[SimonST]

If it comes down to a heatsink or new panel though, the latter is more interesting to me; seems like it has more potential for other PQ improvements, than just outright brightness, or even the improved colour volume, although maybe that's me falling for the marketing .

Will you be waiting another year then? Or is 2021 the one?
For me right now it's a toss up of the LG G1 evo 77" or Sony A90J 83".
Both look stunning.
regarding 2022 panel, remember Sony tend to keep the master series for 2 years.

Nah I'm definitely jumping in 2021 mate 65G1 or 65A90J will be purchased. Haven't been this hyped about an OLED since I had to look on in envy at the improvements made to the E6 while I stared at my bandy, near-black-messy EF950 Just as well I got that exchanged.

Just wish all the good bits weren't spread across two manufacturers I want Sony's processing with this new LG panel (still may be the case, but I'm feeling more like it won't be), GoogleTV but with the G1 design+stand and 4x HDMI 2.1 ports. For me, I think it's going to come down to whether the Sony's (most likely) superior near-black handling makes up for any differences at the other end of the scale, where I think LG might have the edge. If the G1 is a gamechanger for OLED HDR, that may be enough for me to forgive near-black handling, I've gotten used to the E6 after all You can't ignore all those people who've switched from LG to Sony, but there's a lot of change this year.

Great year for flagship TVs from the look of things.

 

[jmac]

If it comes down to a heatsink or new panel though, the latter is more interesting to me; seems like it has more potential for other PQ improvements, than just outright brightness, or even the improved colour volume, although maybe that's me falling for the marketing .



Nah I'm definitely jumping in 2021 mate 65G1 or 65A90J will be purchased. Haven't been this hyped about an OLED since I had to look on in envy at the improvements made to the E6 while I stared at my bandy, near-black-messy EF950 Just as well I got that exchanged.

Just wish all the good bits weren't spread across two manufacturers I want Sony's processing with this new LG panel (still may be the case, but I'm feeling more like it won't be), GoogleTV but with the G1 design+stand and 4x HDMI 2.1 ports. For me, I think it's going to come down to whether the Sony's (most likely) superior near-black handling makes up for any differences at the other end of the scale, where I think LG might have the edge. If the G1 is a gamechanger for OLED HDR, that may be enough for me to forgive near-black handling, I've gotten used to the E6 after all You can't ignore all those people who've switched from LG to Sony, but there's a lot of change this year.

Great year for flagship TVs from the look of things.

Award Number 1 in the bag

 

[SimonST]

Plus I'm only going to be getting the massive, big, portable 65" , whereas 83" is going to look amazing for outright size/impact compared to even 77", so if anything, it's probably an easier decision for you, assuming the prices aren't silly.

 

[jmac]

If it comes down to a heatsink or new panel though, the latter is more interesting to me; seems like it has more potential for other PQ improvements, than just outright brightness, or even the improved colour volume, although maybe that's me falling for the marketing .



Nah I'm definitely jumping in 2021 mate 65G1 or 65A90J will be purchased. Haven't been this hyped about an OLED since I had to look on in envy at the improvements made to the E6 while I stared at my bandy, near-black-messy EF950 Just as well I got that exchanged.

Just wish all the good bits weren't spread across two manufacturers I want Sony's processing with this new LG panel (still may be the case, but I'm feeling more like it won't be), GoogleTV but with the G1 design+stand and 4x HDMI 2.1 ports. For me, I think it's going to come down to whether the Sony's (most likely) superior near-black handling makes up for any differences at the other end of the scale, where I think LG might have the edge. If the G1 is a gamechanger for OLED HDR, that may be enough for me to forgive near-black handling, I've gotten used to the E6 after all You can't ignore all those people who've switched from LG to Sony, but there's a lot of change this year.

Great year for flagship TVs from the look of things.

Yup pretty much the same thoughts here, I'm thinking LG the only one with this new panel.
who knows this new oled panel could have sorted out a lot of near black issues, noise and flashing etc.. I mean they would have been fully aware of these issues when developing it as it's been around a good few years now.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Yup pretty much the same thoughts here, I'm thinking LG the only one with this new panel.
who knows this new oled panel could have sorted out a lot of near black issues, noise and flashing etc.. I mean they would have been fully aware of these issues when developing it as it's been around a good few years now.

near black issues and flashing is down to dolby mate as far as im aware.

I think we can rest assured that the flashing issues that LG have had for years will continue to be here for years. That and their motion handling seem to be something they like to never talk about.

TV to watch out for this year is simply put the Sony's.

The unique selling point of LG was HDMI 2.1 features and OS. Now HDMI 2.1 features are not exclusive to LG, they will be in trouble if they continue to rest on their laurels. The CX was very very very sloppy.. bugs galore, poor uniformity for early panels and poor i mean pathetic, dropped DTS with no pass through, TV catchups not on the TV, HDMI 2.1 bugs at launch which were only fixed this January...


Of course sony aren't great either as they seem to make promises they can't keep.. their TVs better launch with HDMI 2.1 features and not a 'promised FW update'...

 

[Slugsy01]

I honestly hoped that Panasonic would bring out a 77” with new OS but that hasn’t happened so probably won’t be considering them.

I have been super impressed with my second AG9, I’m quite bought into the Sony processing methods, colour reproduction etc. If the A90J improves on near blacks, brightness and in anyway improves on what I would term best in class upscaling and motion then I would be really keen. The issue I have is it’s 83” or 65” when really I need a 77”.

So that brings in the G1 which I will have to wait and see. I don’t particularly like the way LG has done it’s upscaling, motion or near blacks but have always appreciated it’s HDR performance. If it can sort out those niggles with a new generation panel at 77” then I will be all ears/eyes!

 

[kenshingintoki]

I honestly hoped that Panasonic would bring out a 77” with new OS but that hasn’t happened so probably won’t be considering them.

I have been super impressed with my second AG9, I’m quite bought into the Sony processing methods, colour reproduction etc. If the A90J improves on near blacks, brightness and in anyway improves on what I would term best in class upscaling and motion then I would be really keen. The issue I have is it’s 83” or 65” when really I need a 77”.

So that brings in the G1 which I will have to wait and see. I don’t particularly like the way LG has done it’s upscaling, motion or near blacks but have always appreciated it’s HDR performance. If it can sort out those niggles with a new generation panel at 77” then I will be all ears/eyes!

im happy if there is no 77'' Sony, cos it gives us a chance that the 83'' wont cost an arm and a leg...

 

[golden phoenix]

im used to going into my nearest John Lewis to check out all the panels but with the lockdowns currently closed..im hoping by the time the tvs come out. 3/4 of the country have been vaccinated and we can get rid of this god awful virus. and i can stroll into john lewis and have a look to get a feel for the tvs. they also offer 5 year guarantees and also a burn in policy (seperate) and price matching, so they would be my retailer of choice

 

[Slugsy01]

im happy if there is no 77'' Sony, cos it gives us a chance that the 83'' wont cost an arm and a leg...

You don’t think they will go ZG9 pricing?

 

[jmac]

You don’t think they will go ZG9 pricing?

tricky one, as it's still "only" 4K.
8k seems to demands this silly price tags, at least until tcl, hisense etc force the big players to drop 8k prices.

 

[Slugsy01]

tricky one, as it's still "only" 4K.
8k seems to demands this silly price tags, at least until tcl, hisense etc force the big players to drop 8k prices.

Yeah when I thought about it a bit more, of course that 8k badge gave them the chance to put a premium on it. It would be pretty nifty if they priced it similar to the 77”, but it’s a guessing game for now.

 

[kenshingintoki]

You don’t think they will go ZG9 pricing?

i think they will but a man can have a dream...

 

[jmac]

Yeah when I thought about it a bit more, of course that 8k badge gave them the chance to put a premium on it. It would be pretty nifty if they priced it similar to the 77”, but it’s a guessing game for now.

You can bet it will be more than the 77. Remember there is now a a80j 77. That is basically an updated ag9 77, standard oled panel but upgraded processor, hdmi 2.1 and 'cough' real Dolby vision.
If your oled was to die I'd say your replacement would be a a80j 77

 

[baba850r]

When will we find out pricing for the new units namely Sony?

 

[Jackass]

Hey Simon, you finding a big difference in PQ with the E6 and newer panels you’ve tried?
I keep thinking of upgrading but the E6 still gives such a great picture and wonder if it will be a big step up?

 

[Slugsy01]

Hey Simon, you finding a big difference in PQ with the E6 and newer panels you’ve tried?
I keep thinking of upgrading but the E6 still gives such a great picture and wonder if it will be a big step up?

I have found there is quite a big step up with near black performance across all brands, but others may have a different experience.

 

[raymondo77]

Hey Simon, you finding a big difference in PQ with the E6 and newer panels you’ve tried?
I keep thinking of upgrading but the E6 still gives such a great picture and wonder if it will be a big step up?

The biggest difference I immediately noticed when moving from the E6 to C7 was the lack of black crush. The cut-off on my E6 meant I lost lots of near black detail. The downside of having more detail near black though is that it can look pretty noisy.

Also the C7 and then C8 are noticeably brighter.

 

[raymondo77]

That 83” Sony looks mighty impressive, but I’d have to go through the hassle of selling my 77C8 first. I’m not even sure I’d get a couple of grand for it either.

 

[Slugsy01]

That 83” Sony looks mighty impressive, but I’d have to go through the hassle of selling my 77C8 first. I’m not even sure I’d get a couple of grand for it either.

It’s such a pain, I was really lucky my brother in law bought by C8 without any hassle but if I want the next one I’ll have to sell the AG9 and all the hassle that entails!

Or I get a divorce, remarry and sell it to the next brother in law...hmmm

 

[jmac]

It’s such a pain, I was really lucky my brother in law bought by C8 without any hassle but if I want the next one I’ll have to sell the AG9 and all the hassle that entails!

Or I get a divorce, remarry and sell it to the next brother in law...hmmm

Your brother in law will be gagging for an upgrade in size in a few months mate

 

[jmac]

That 83” Sony looks mighty impressive, but I’d have to go through the hassle of selling my 77C8 first. I’m not even sure I’d get a couple of grand for it either.

C8 77 Bedroom tv?