2019 Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) hits the UK

Brian The Dog

Well-known Member
Booked both my jabs this morning, first one on Friday evening. Show me the needle and jab the damn thing in.

I was firm with my mother when she suggested she may not get it and she promptly had both jabs. I have no time for folks saying that don't want it cause that are concerned about the side effects.

The maths are simple:
Without and with the vaccine:

Mild to moderate covid symptoms - Hospitalisation - Put on a ventilator for weeks - Long Covid - Death
V
A few days feeling bad - Mild Covid symptoms - Reduced chance of infecting others.

Statistically the second option wins.
 

jamesp26

Active Member
I'm sure like we sit here discussing the UK and all other places in the world, I'm sure other countries are doing just the same. So, why are they not seeing that millions have been vaccinated here and there have not been 1000s of deaths directly linked to that?

Everyone has an opinion, but why are they not researching the facts?
Anyone can have the opinion that vaccines are dangerous, but they have to back that up with facts and there just aren't any to back that up.

I have had covid, my first jab and my second this Thursday: I'm still alive and well.

I don't know the answer to this. My Polish colleague tells me that culturally there is distrust of governments due to what happened in the communist years. Its culturally something we will just have to accept. My colleague has tried to talk her family around but they are adamant. Being in the UK for the last 5 years or so, my colleague can't wait to get the vaccine.

As for the dutch, I have always found them a very opinionated and strong willed bunch. We love our friends dearly, but my goodness when they argue (about anything) it can feel like outright war. We felt it wasn't our place to judge, but maybe knowing where we are might make them think a bit more. The thing that stood out to me was how shocked they were with how far the UK had got with vaccinations. These aren't stupid people, so it's as if the nation is hiding behind their failed programme whilst they are simply trying to get on with their lives.
 

jamesp26

Active Member
IPL suspended. About ruddy time too, although too late for David Warner and that cheat Smith to get back to 'stralia. Seems like the place AUZ cricketers are fleeing to is the Maldives. My heart bleeds.

 

D'@ve

Active Member
The maths are simple:
Without and with the vaccine:

Mild to moderate covid symptoms - Hospitalisation - Put on a ventilator for weeks - Long Covid - Death
V
A few days feeling bad - Mild Covid symptoms - Reduced chance of infecting others.

Statistically the second option wins.

Indeed. In fact, for many people, perhaps most including me, the vaccine option causes no more than an arm tender to the touch for 24 hours - for both doses.
 

jamesp26

Active Member
Indeed. In fact, for many people, perhaps most including me, the vaccine option causes no more than an arm tender to the touch for 24 hours - for both doses.

I felt tired so sent the family out, watched some football and had a nap. It was actually the perfect Sunday!
 

Laureline

Active Member
Everyone has an opinion, but why are they not researching the facts?
Anyone can have the opinion that vaccines are dangerous, but they have to back that up with facts and there just aren't any to back that up.

I have had covid, my first jab and my second this Thursday: I'm still alive and well.

I'm in Germany and have had both shots, when I happen to mention that I'm fully vaccinated it's amazing how many many people will tell you that they don't trust any of the vaccines and then go on to moan about the Government still locking everything down.

The same back home (in France) I have so many Aunts/Uncles/Cousins who're sceptical about the vaccines.
 

Sammyez

Distinguished Member
Given the crisis in India, it seems the sensible solution is to impose a 'circuit breaker' national lockdown to help ease the pressure off the overwhelmed healthcare system and allow for more international aid to be provided...

India Covid cases pass 20m as calls grow for national lockdown

'India has passed a grim milestone of 20 million Covid-19 cases amid growing calls for the country to go into a national lockdown'

'On Tuesday, India reported 357,229 new cases over the last 24 hours, while the number of deaths rose by 3,449 as a deadly wave of the virus showed no signs of relenting. Many health experts believe India’s true death toll to be five to 10 times higher than official data'

'As the country continued to grapple with oxygen shortages and a lack of hospital beds and ICU facilities for coronavirus patients, as well as crematoriums overloaded with bodies, the Indian opposition leader Rahul Gandhi called for a nationwide lockdown'


 

Tourista

Well-known Member
I'm in Germany and have had both shots, when I happen to mention that I'm fully vaccinated it's amazing how many many people will tell you that they don't trust any of the vaccines and then go on to moan about the Government still locking everything down.

The same back home (in France) I have so many Aunts/Uncles/Cousins who're sceptical about the vaccines.
Social media have played a large part in this vaccine scepticism.

My friends in Turkey are saying that most Turks they know feel the same as your Dutch friends. They have had to fight to get the jabs, whereas their acquaintance's moan about this latest lockdown but say the vaccines are not safe to use....
 

Brian The Dog

Well-known Member
I'm in Germany and have had both shots, when I happen to mention that I'm fully vaccinated it's amazing how many many people will tell you that they don't trust any of the vaccines and then go on to moan about the Government still locking everything down.

The same back home (in France) I have so many Aunts/Uncles/Cousins who're sceptical about the vaccines.
That isn't too surprising with the on/off/on OAZ Vaccine and the scare stories.
However, why are they not looking at places like Israel or the UK where millions have had the vaccine and nothing too bad has happened?
If they don't trust their own Governments (That is not unique as here in the UK we mostly don't either) why are they not doing their own research into how vaccines have worked well in other countries.

And how will they feel if travel to other countries is restricted to unvaccinated people?

I'm sure they will come around in the end when they see the clear benefits of having everyone vaccinated and freedoms that other countries are/will be enjoying.
 

smudger44

Member
Given the crisis in India, it seems the sensible solution is to impose a 'circuit breaker' national lockdown to help ease the pressure off the overwhelmed healthcare system and allow for more international aid to be provided...

India Covid cases pass 20m as calls grow for national lockdown

'India has passed a grim milestone of 20 million Covid-19 cases amid growing calls for the country to go into a national lockdown'

'On Tuesday, India reported 357,229 new cases over the last 24 hours, while the number of deaths rose by 3,449 as a deadly wave of the virus showed no signs of relenting. Many health experts believe India’s true death toll to be five to 10 times higher than official data'

'As the country continued to grapple with oxygen shortages and a lack of hospital beds and ICU facilities for coronavirus patients, as well as crematoriums overloaded with bodies, the Indian opposition leader Rahul Gandhi called for a nationwide lockdown'


India's reaction to this Covid 19 virus just beggars belief. Religious festivals were there where just about no social distancing bathing in the Ganges no more than an open sewer, with thousands attended sporting events and it can be clearly seen on TV people disposing of relatives and other bodies with masks that are sitting below the nose or none at all very similar to people holding a hand grenade with the pin out. Totally and utterly disorganised as a country that should have been this coming. I do really feel sorry for these folk as they really do not know any different.
 

Sammyez

Distinguished Member
India's reaction to this Covid 19 virus just beggars belief. Religious festivals were there where just about no social distancing bathing in the Ganges no more than an open sewer, with thousands attended sporting events and it can be clearly seen on TV people disposing of relatives and other bodies with masks that are sitting below the nose or none at all very similar to people holding a hand grenade with the pin out. Totally and utterly disorganised as a country that should have been this coming. I do really feel sorry for these folk as they really do not know any different.
The situation is dire. Some factors such as poverty, population density and the state of the healthcare infrastructure are part of the problem. However, poor decisions taken by the politicians and not listening to scientists has contributed to this crisis. India does have economic power and wealth (in the hands of the few) but the disproportionate nature means the majority have very poor standard of living, in many cases living hand to mouth. This does not bode well when seeking to get people to isolate. It’s a dangerous cocktail of circumstances that is potentially catastrophic.

 

tom 2000

Distinguished Member
What's the reasoning for face masks in the autumn after the majority of the country will have been vaccinated? Is this cause you can still get Covid but the symptoms are just milder and unknowns of how the vaccine will work longer-term?
It’s like the old Double Condom Joke.
To be sure, to be sure.
To be serious it will only be worth implementing as a visual reminder for people to be on their guard. I can see it remaining for some close contact services only.
 

Sammyez

Distinguished Member
BC4E023D-CB3E-4CAF-8A54-1A576E4A88C0.jpeg
 

Har-One

Member
I don't know the answer to this. My Polish colleague tells me that culturally there is distrust of governments due to what happened in the communist years. Its culturally something we will just have to accept. My colleague has tried to talk her family around but they are adamant. Being in the UK for the last 5 years or so, my colleague can't wait to get the vaccine.

As for the dutch, I have always found them a very opinionated and strong willed bunch. We love our friends dearly, but my goodness when they argue (about anything) it can feel like outright war. We felt it wasn't our place to judge, but maybe knowing where we are might make them think a bit more. The thing that stood out to me was how shocked they were with how far the UK had got with vaccinations. These aren't stupid people, so it's as if the nation is hiding behind their failed programme whilst they are simply trying to get on with their lives.
I cannot really say what happened in Poland in the communist years, but I think that the distrust in the government because what happened then is nothing more than an excuse not to get vaccinated. It is like pulling a trump card that very few would challenge.

I have been working with people from Poland, Hungary, Rumania among other former communist countries and they have not had any qualms about getting the vaccine. Those countries were repressive but in the fields of medicine, sport and education were not doing too badly.

People who do not want to get vaccinated will find a plethora of excuses why they shouldn’t get vaccinated, giving quasi logical explanations mostly based on rumours and internet misinformation. We have seen them from all corners of the planet indistinctively of the political/economical background.

I do appreciate that certain minority groups have a healthy amount of distrust because they were used for experimenting like guinea pigs. However, I feel more respect for those who openly say that they do not want the vaccine than those that give excuses.

For me the only good excuse it is a medical excuse, where the vaccine will cause more harm than benefits.
 

Sammyez

Distinguished Member
Whilst it’s still early days, the development of Covid pills and nasal sprays (if approved) could be hugely beneficial to those in low income countries or remote areas...

Forget vaccine jabs—next-generation COVID-19 pills and nasal sprays are on their way


‘The number of companies trying to create nasal spray and oral COVID-19 vaccines is still small, compared with dozens working to introduce new injectable versions. Of the 93 vaccine trials underway, just two are for oral tablets and seven are the nasal variety, according to the World Health Organization

‘Yet even if only a few are approved by regulators in various countries, the impact would be huge on the world’s ability to rein in a virus that has wreaked global economic havoc’

‘Take India, whose explosive COVID-19 outbreak has left hospitals without oxygen supplies, and crematoriums struggling to keep pace with deaths. Even though India is a major producer and exporter of coronavirus vaccines, less than 10% of its 1.4 billion population has been vaccinated’

Forget vaccine jabs—next-generation COVID-19 pills and nasal sprays are on their way
 
Social media have played a large part in this vaccine scepticism.

My friends in Turkey are saying that most Turks they know feel the same as your Dutch friends. They have had to fight to get the jabs, whereas their acquaintance's moan about this latest lockdown but say the vaccines are not safe to use....
Is it just that alone? I have a number of French friends and they have always been very into natural remedies and homeopathy - I e mailed some old and very good friends a while back and I was actually quite surprised when they expressed eagerness to be vaccinated (glad though).


ETA - And ......................again I've 'replied' to the wrong post. I think i was responding to @Laureline
 

Miss Mandy

Moderator
And yet somehow he manages it. Day in, day out. Must be exhausting.
I did a while ago, before it's demise, request a ban for him on DS.

If he’s bothering you that much just use the ignore function so that you won’t see his posts.
 

Laureline

Active Member
Is it just that alone? I have a number of French friends and they have always been very into natural remedies and homeopathy - I e mailed some old and very good friends a while back and I was actually quite surprised when they expressed eagerness to be vaccinated (glad though).


ETA - And ......................again I've 'replied' to the wrong post. I think i was responding to @Laureline

French skepticism of vaccines is endemic, In 2018 we were worrying about a Measles outbreak with France having the third highest case of Measles in the EU (Italy and Greece were higher) and the three had the lowest percentage of population vaccinated for MMR.


And in 2019 it was revealed that France was the most vaccine sceptical of 140 Nations


Back on DS I did say this was understandable as we're raised to be sceptical of authority and practically everyone believes themselves to be a critical thinker. But two years on the comments in the Science Mag article claiming scepticism was healthy are starting to look a little hollow.
 
French skepticism of vaccines is endemic, In 2018 we were worrying about a Measles outbreak with France having the third highest case of Measles in the EU (Italy and Greece were higher) and the three had the lowest percentage of population vaccinated for MMR.


And in 2019 it was revealed that France was the most vaccine sceptical of 140 Nations


Back on DS I did say this was understandable as we're raised to be sceptical of authority and practically everyone believes themselves to be a critical thinker. But two years on the comments in the Science Mag article claiming scepticism was healthy are starting to look a little hollow.
I love the fact that mtyFrench friends are so sceptical. I've been part of a twinning association for thirty years and have many French friends. The French are our nearest neighbours and we really do have so much in common....but we do have a 'different way of thinking' at times.
 

BorkenArrow

Well-known Member
French skepticism of vaccines is endemic, In 2018 we were worrying about a Measles outbreak with France having the third highest case of Measles in the EU (Italy and Greece were higher) and the three had the lowest percentage of population vaccinated for MMR.


And in 2019 it was revealed that France was the most vaccine sceptical of 140 Nations


Back on DS I did say this was understandable as we're raised to be sceptical of authority and practically everyone believes themselves to be a critical thinker. But two years on the comments in the Science Mag article claiming scepticism was healthy are starting to look a little hollow.
Thanks for your posts, I always look forward to your continental perspective.
 

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