2017 LG oled motion judder

Discussion in 'LG TVs Forum' started by 826540272, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. 826540272

    826540272
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    I dont care motion artefcts too much and the bfi
    but the motion frame drop is really make noisy to me.
    regardless whatever you settings 1-10
    in fast scene or panning shot ,
    lg's trumotion will always get frame drop from 120 to 24 fps
    make a judder/stutter feel.
    and did much worse in 2017 oled series
    which use m16p soc model.

    test demo video :
    Motion interpolation Test Panasonic_finding_puppy

    this demo play on the tv with trumotion on, you will notice the judder /stutter certainly.

    I found out 2 condition they could get rid of the judder/stutter.
    if you play a video via a small window (>50% Screen), such youtube via browser but not fullscreen, the motion judder will be gone.
    if you play a video they had scroll subtitles ,the judder will be gone too.
    so this is some bugs of motion interpolation algorithm.
    if you has the issues , please feedback to lge as soon as you can.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  2. staffy 2

    staffy 2
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    No judder on my E7 and don’t turn trumotion on it’s not needed the motion is spot on with everything and football looks awesome.
     
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  3. kamil550

    kamil550
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    Hi.
    Have exactly the same issue .
    Tried everything i could,every single option
    but without luck ,its still there.
    Some people don't mind watching without motion enhancements but unfortunately i'm not the one (huge mess for me).
    As i've just bought it few days ago from J L sent them an email -the technical team got back to me and we've agreed to exchange my b7 for another same set as been told that this could vary from set to set(very unlikely i think) but i'll give it a go and see .
     
  4. 826540272

    826540272
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    The issue is not for who don't care judder. 24p judder is always be existed. and lg trumotion introduce stutter to scene.
     
  5. 826540272

    826540272
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    it won't be vary. it's a common issues for M16P soc TV.
     
  6. kamil550

    kamil550
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    Is there any oled out available without this stutter issue? and what (M16P soc TV) means?
     
  7. staffy 2

    staffy 2
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    Yes my E7 has no stutter and trumotion is always off or turns out I’ve got stutter free eyes.I will have to rephrase that before Fx1 bombards me with abuse-my eyes see no stutter in anything and with my eyes which are unique to me the motion on my E7 is as smooth as a baby’s bum but remember that’s only with my eyes and I don’t wear glasses and have perfect vision I’m a hgv lorry driver with a 60 foot vehicle that bends so my vision has to be spot on in my job which it is.
     
  8. kamil550

    kamil550
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    Has e7 not having a different (read better) processing than b7 and c7 in place?
     
  9. staffy 2

    staffy 2
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    I don’t think it officially has any better components but I have read the odd article that says even though LG say all the 2017 oleds are the same that the E7 and above do have a few better components inside and the price difference isn’t just for the aesthetics but I don’t really know for sure.
    I would very much doubt motion would differ between the models.I just think some unfortunate people do seem to be more sensitive to it than others it’s like I have sensitive teeth but my friend doesn’t it’s just one of those things but I do feel sorry for people seeing motion issues as it’s such a shame as many us see no motion issues.
     
  10. arenaman

    arenaman
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    If it's perfect for you then it's perfect, no question this is all subjective after all
     
  11. choddo

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    I assume it’s a standard video processing chipset. (Edit: seems it’s LGs) SOC stands for System on a Chip when they integrate multiple capabilities that are commonly used together into a single chip fabrication (to save space, energy, cost)

    Panasonic have their HCX and yet they have stutter too (which is mostly eliminated in the latest firmware as long as IFC their version of TruMotion is turned off ... and which they still haven’t officially shipped to owners of older TVs)

    Has someone that provides standard components to the OLED supply chain screwed up? I had not heard about this being an issue on LGs before.
     
  12. barry7767

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    What video source results in judder? I have perfect motion (C7) on Sky Q and TV Netflix app, yet Amazon app is horrendous for judder. Therefore thinking in my case it is app specific rather than the TV
     
  13. dedics

    dedics
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    AFAIK all the big TV makers (LG, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips) now have their own custom chips for video processing, they don't use off-the-shelf parts. Some have separate chips for doing different parts of the processing (e.g. Panasonic), others do it all in one chip (e.g. new Philips TVs), but they're all custom as is the firmware -- everyone has their own algorithms too.

    Developing the code is a huge job, especially dealing with all the different formats and conversion to suit the panel, and it's easy for bugs to slip through -- though it does often seem that these are more common with 25/50Hz material (e.g. UK) than 24Hz (film/Bluray) or 30/60Hz (e.g. US), maybe because with most sets the default panel refresh rate is 60/120Hz (exact fit to 24/30/60Hz) so most work is done in this mode, and 25/50Hz is the poor relation :-(

    It's impossible to know whether these stutter/judder problems can be fixed by changing the firmware (new algorithms), or are an inherent problem caused by the way the hardware is built (new hardware needed -- which is extremely unlikely to happen in launched sets). Mostly they can be fixed with firmware changes (which is what Panasonic owners are hoping for, real soon now...) but it's not guaranteed to be possible until it's been done.
     
  14. raymondo77

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    It's pointless changing sets, the new one will be the same, it's just how they perform with TruMotion. All of the 2017 LG OLEDs have the same chipsets so even trying a different model won't help you.

    Apparently the 2018 sets with the Alpha 9 processor should be better, but until they're out nobody can say for sure.
     
  15. toodeep

    toodeep
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    Whereas I suspect that they often market third-party processors as if they're their own, e.g. some MediaTek SOC as the 'Ultimate Extreme Zeta 007 video processor', etc..
     
  16. dedics

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    That may be your suspicion, but I suspect it's wrong. All the big manufacturers seem to have very different behavior in their video processing (colour, image enhancement, motion) and all claim to have developed their own algorithms and chips; if they were using common chips from MediaTek etc. this wouldn't be the case.

    I'm speaking as somebody who's in the ASIC design business and knows what the likes of MediaTek do -- the big TV manufacturers are indeed using their standard chips as the control processors that run the UI, but not for video processing because they want to own the algorithms and processing hardware as their own "secret sauce".

    Since the algorithms and processing hardware are closely linked, they'd also have to completely rewrite their code (which has got years of investment in it, because each has historically used their own different processing hardware) to run it on a standard chip. Video processing chips are not like an off-the-shelf CPU, they're a massively parallel customized image processor designed to run particular algorithms efficiently, and different algorithms tend to need different hardware.

    The exception to this is probably the smaller generic (Chinese?) manufacturers who don't have the sunk investment in algorithms and history of chip development, and are likely to buy an off-the-shelf solution (hardware and firmware) from the likes of Mediatek. But then they don't try and claim that their processing is better and special, they just sell on price.
     
  17. toodeep

    toodeep
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    But isn't the now infamous processor (apparently incapable of full-fat DV) in current Sony TVs at least in part from MediaTek? Of course these things still need programming and therein can lie some branding variance.
     
  18. dedics

    dedics
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    Can't say for certain that no big manufacturer (e.g. Sony) is using an off-the-shelf chip from Mediatek, but I used to work for a big Japanese ASIC company, and for sure we made custom TV processing chips for Sony and Panasonic, and I know Samsung and Philips also do their own.

    Are you sure the Sony TV chip you referred to is the video processor? Many manufacturers use Mediatek (or similar) for the processor that controls the set (and the other processing chips) and runs the UI (Android, FirefoxOS, WebOS, TizenOS...), this is typically a quad-core ARM with peripherals and there's no big advantage in spending a lot of money developing a custom chip to do this. If it's some missing capability on this that prevents the Sony doing DV then this could explain what you said, but it's still not doing the video processing.
     
  19. kamil550

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    Hi all.
    I've reported the stuttering issue on my b7 to LG.
    Finally they got back to me (after a week or so) time with this:



    Good morning

    Thank you for your query regarding your LG TV; I would be more than happy to assist you with this query today.

    How are you watching TV and what does this effect? Are you using the built in tuner, online services or a set top box. Please make sure you are using a progressive resolution instead of an interlaced resolution as this can make it appear like the picture is stuttering, for example most Sky boxes are set to 1080i by default. Change it to 720p and the issue normally goes away.

    If you have any videos of the issue please send them in for us to review.

    If the product is under 28 days since purchase you can return the unit to the retailer for a refund or exchange.

    If you do wish to discuss this further please do not hesitate to contact us on 0344 847 5454 or alternatively you can also reply to this email by clicking on the wish to reply to this email button just below. Should you need to attach anything in your response, please click on the start a brand new enquiry button.

    I hope you are happy with the service I have personally provided, if you are, please take the time to fill out a short survey at the bottom of this email. It is based solely on my efforts for you. I appreciate all feedback given!

    Thank you in advance.

    Kind regards
    Carlin
    LG Electronics UK Help desk


    To be honest i've tried this before and its better but only slightly would say this stutter is not only satelite interlaced but present in Netflix ,youtube,freview, and so on.
    Do you guys having the same stuttering on anything uou watch or just sky 1080 interlaced?
     
  20. staffy 2

    staffy 2
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    Yes I read on Trusted Reviews who are normally really good and they said Oleds stutter on interlaced content especially the 2017 models so it put me right off.
    Then came the big price drop the weekend before Black Friday and I couldn’t resist a 55 E7 at £1499 and thought how bad can this stutter be.Anyway I was blown away it was the best 1080i picture I’ve ever seen and it just kept getting better the more I watched it I’d say over the first 300 hours each compensation cycle improved the picture.Long story short I’m almost four months with my Oled now and never seen any stutter in anything the picture is amazing and all my viewing is 1080 interlaced so it’s got to be that some people are sensitive to Oled technology the way it handles motion.Most people seem fine with it and my motion is faultless and I’m ocd and really picky I can’t put up with faults.If my tv had motion issues stuttering I’d return it but the truth is that mine with my eyes is spot on it’s the best tv I’ve ever had but feel so sorry for those with issues but it can’t be the tv else everyone would have stutter.
    Can we do a vote on how many see stuttering and how many don’t just to get some idea of the problem and try to help those who see it as it might just be they can’t tolerate motion on Oled tvs and may be better off with lcd.
     
  21. kamil550

    kamil550
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    Thanks for your comment staffy.
    Unfortunately i can actually see it on my b7 as it is very clearly visible no matter the setting and to be honest i think if you come and look at it yourself you will see it to.
    Quite dissapointed with it to be honest did not expect this kind of issues with tv has one of the best picture quality available at the moment.
    Strange thing i've noticed that quite a few people reported no issues with the e7 but a lot b7 owners were dissapointed.
    Though these two tvs supoused to be exactly same i have a feeling there might be some kind of difference in the hardware of the tv.
     
  22. kamil550

    kamil550
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    Just wanted to add this stuttering issue on mine tv is not only 1080i but anything,netflix,youtube and freeview included.
     
  23. staffy 2

    staffy 2
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    Yes kamil it does seem E7 owners don’t see any motion issues although how bad you say yours is with all content is worth a swap as it does seem like a fault and could you try a C7.Im so sorry for your issues as it’s a fantastic picture when you get a good one so don’t give up yet.
     
  24. kamil550

    kamil550
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    So -do you think it actually can be a problem with this particular example?..
     
  25. kamil550

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    Are you using trumotion at all ?
     
  26. staffy 2

    staffy 2
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    Hi Kamil your tv does sound faulty as you see it on everything so I’d give another one a go or even try a C7 or E7 if it gets heavily discounted soon.
    All panels should be the same and you never know it could be an anti reflective filter or coating that’s at fault on your panel as most owners are getting great quality panels just lately but sadly the odd bad ones do get through.
     
  27. 826540272

    826540272
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    24p 25p 30p videos
     
  28. 826540272

    826540272
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    ma
    maybe you are watch 50i content.
    we are talk about 24p 25p 30p they need motion interpolation technology.
     
  29. 826540272

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    I have a way to fix this problem.
    but it's funny.
    if a video has scroll subtitles , the tv won't give up motion process
    please feedback to lge.
    demo video ,time from 3:12
    【开场表演】薛之谦《你还要我怎样》《中国新歌声》中秋踢馆赛 SING!CHINA SP.1...
     
  30. 826540272

    826540272
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    of course
     

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