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200hz

jaffas

Standard Member
Hi people looking for some advice i have finaly decided on the samsung 7020 led but just want to know does it matter that this set is only 100hz as my main useage and love is watching sport football ect. thanks in advance jaffs.
 

Nielo TM

Distinguished Member
A standard 60Hz panel with excellent pixel transition time is more than enough for sports.

However, that's not always the case and 100/120Hz does help to an extent. And don't bother wasting your money on 200Hz.
 

5to1

Prominent Member
I have the 46B7020, the three issues I have with the 100hz mode are:

1) The soap opera effect which annoys the hell out of my girlfriend. Fortunately switching to clear mode resolves this.

2) Occaisional judder. Fortunately doesn't happen often enough to annoy me. Probably one or two frames in several hours of viewing. Obviously it doesn't happen during BD playback (when the set should just perform 4:4 or 5:5), which is where it would really annoy me.

3) Lag it introduces for gaming. Fortunately switching to Game Mode negates most of the Lag.

Increasing to 200hz will make no difference to the above issues, therefore personally I would say it's not really worth it.

IMO manufacturers are playing the numbers game, in the hope consumers will fall for the adage, the bigger the number the better the result.

What you need to compare are the various implimentations of artificial frame creation and see which suits your tastes best. Your going to see far greater differences between the various frame creation engines used by manufacturers, then with the same engine running at 100hz or 200hz.

As Nielo suggests, the extent of the benefit offered by 100hz/200hz artificial frame creation mechanisms is debateable. The only way to fully address motion blur in LCD's is to have a pixel response time of >1/60/sec for the full 1080 lines on the screen. And have blank frame insertion or strobing of the backlight.

If motion handling is paramount I suggest you try appropriate material instore on the sets you like. I would also try the series 10 Pannys, which are reputed to have the best motion handling of all. Just remember, whats important is if the motion handling is acceptable to you, not wether some review says its acceptable or not.
 
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jaffas

Standard Member
Thankyou for your very helpfull reply i have thought about the panasonic v10 but have been put of by the possibility of image retention due to gaming has have seen this problem with a samsung plasma well thats another issue also what hifi review not so good for what it is worth many thanks.
 

5to1

Prominent Member
Thankyou for your very helpfull reply i have thought about the panasonic v10 but have been put of by the possibility of image retention due to gaming has have seen this problem with a samsung plasma well thats another issue also what hifi review not so good for what it is worth many thanks.

That is my major concern with plasmas aswell, although it has been mitigated to a large extent with modern sets.

I have a plasma set aswell and do occaisionally get retention (not burn in) so it does worry me when I come to replace that set with another one. The current one was run in at work, where I inherited it from. My concern is a new one which has not been run in may suffer burn in. Unfortunately you can tell the family not to wonder off with Sky on Pause for hours, but it goes in one ear and out of the other :rolleyes:

I'm actually watching the French open on my 7020 right now and find it perfectly acceptable. But as I said previously you really need to try it for yourself. It doesn't really matter if I or a reviewer find the motion to be acceptable, in reality there are issues with every set, what matters is if you find them acceptable.

For example although the motion handling may be better on plasmas/crts, some people will notice the flickr. And others are particularly sensitive to the phosphor trails on Pannys. If you wait for the perfect TV that everyone is happy with you'll be wating forever :)
 

5to1

Prominent Member
BTW just to add, when I was talking about backlight scanning or blank frame insertion, don't hold your breath for these to come through in a workable solution anytime soon.

Theoretically they should solve the motion resolution issue on LCD's (in conjunction with a fast enough pixel response time). But in practice you have to remember a CRT "pixel" is only lit for a few ms and rapidly disipates. Thats something that can't be replicated with current backlight/LCD technology.

IMO this is the reason every manufacturer is going down the frame insertion route.
 

Nielo TM

Distinguished Member
I have the 46B7020, the three issues I have with the 100hz mode are:

1) The soap opera effect which annoys the hell out of my girlfriend. Fortunately switching to clear mode resolves this.

Under 200Hz, select custom and disable judder reduction.

The new Samsung allows user to adjust low-level and high-level MCFI separately


3) Lag it introduces for gaming. Fortunately switching to Game Mode negates most of the Lag.


Don't use Game Mode because it does't allow you to select WARM 1 or 2. Instead, use PC Mode

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-...ag-new-samsung-led-well-series-5-6-7-8-a.html




As Nielo suggests, the extent of the benefit offered by 100hz/200hz artificial frame creation mechanisms is debateable. The only way to fully address motion blur in LCD's is to have a pixel response time of >1/60/sec for the full 1080 lines on the screen. And have blank frame insertion or strobing of the backlight.

If motion handling is paramount I suggest you try appropriate material instore on the sets you like. I would also try the series 10 Pannys, which are reputed to have the best motion handling of all. Just remember, whats important is if the motion handling is acceptable to you, not wether some review says its acceptable or not.

It's virtually impossible to check in store due to large amount of variables. Also, you have to implement panel lottery into the factor.

With LCDs, there's no way to blur free motion due to variable pixel transition times.

So we are stuck with MCFI. That is until next generation of LCDs introduced for the consumer market

Search Keywords: Samsung Blue Phase LCD and FLCD
 

5to1

Prominent Member
Under 200Hz, select custom and disable judder reduction.

The new Samsung allows user to adjust low-level and high-level MCFI separately


Don't use Game Mode because it does't allow you to select WARM 1 or 2. Instead, use PC Mode

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-...ag-new-samsung-led-well-series-5-6-7-8-a.html

Thanks, I'll try judder reduction and see if the girlfriend is happy with it.

I haven't had much chance to game on it, but did see that thread about using PC mode before and have been meaning to try it.


It's virtually impossible to check in store due to large amount of variables. Also, you have to implement panel lottery into the factor.

I disagree on this point, unlike some other picture parameters where ambient lighting etc make it difficult to make a good judgement instore, I tihnk you can with motion handling.

It does take a little effort/planning but i've done it in the past. You either have to take the material you watch with you on DVD/BD or wait for it to be on (i.e football).

While you obviously can't get the full picture (pun intended) you can get a very good idea if one set stands out to you.

If you ask nicely, I've found you will find a salesman who will alow you to stick your own DVD/BD in. Or switch feeds (I've had them plug the Sky HD box into a couple of different sets). Obviously you need to narrow your choices first, you cant take the p**s and spend the day messing with every set (well maybe if you spend alot of money with them regularly).

WRT panel lottery, that applies to any review, wether that be your own or a commercial review. Infact I feel I'd have a better chance of determining the variation in panels by visting the dozen or so stores with 15 mins of me, then reading a dozen reviews all of who'm may have seen the same review sample.

With LCDs, there's no way to blur free motion due to variable pixel transition times.

So we are stuck with MCFI. That is until next generation of LCDs introduced for the consumer market

Search Keywords: Samsung Blue Phase LCD and FLCD

Hopefully it delivers the performance Samsung is touting.
 
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