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20-year-old Sony v 20-minute-old Panny.

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by AllFumbs, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. AllFumbs

    AllFumbs
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    I bought a Sony KV2092 (20" Trinitron tube) TV in November 1986. Still going strong, I only retired it when the IR unit packed-in lately: I'm too lazy to get up to change channels. As its replacement I chose a widescreen Panasonic TX28DTM1 – 50Hz and Freeview built-in, so to speak. But here's the rub: with no alteration to the aerial, the analogue picture on the new set is astonishingly inferior to the Sony's; and I'd say the Panasonic's digital picture is scant improvement.

    Opinions, please.

    Oh, perhaps I should point out that the bill of sale for the Sony reminds me I gave £349.95 for it a smidgin under nineteen years ago: pre-Internet, of course, though I did shop-around. The new Panasonic, however, cost just £268, delivered: I got John Lewis to price-match a largely (though not exclusively) on-line dealer, following the excellent advice found in these forums. So is it simply a matter of you get what you pay for?

    Thank you for your time.
    AF.
     
  2. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied
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    There was a day when Sony made excellent TV's which doesn't appear to be so widespread in their range today.

    Of course nearly 20 years ago Analogue was in it's prime, in that their was nothing in technology to compete with it so it is not to surprising the Sony batters the Panny for quality. With Freeview built in I'm sure less effort will have gone into the analogue tuner too.

    As an old saying goes new is not always better :) There are some classic designs out there that are hard to beat (sometimes manufacturers do it absolutly right!).
     
  3. Hungry_Joe

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    Just out of interest, is one of the panny's scarts RGB enabled?

    I know it's practically always the case but i was just a-wondering.
     
  4. Neiliboy

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    My Dad was a TV engineer back in those days and he absolutely swears blind that the Sony Trinitron tubes were the best ever for quality.

    Give him the choice between a brand new tv (any brand) and a 20 yr old Sony & he'll go for the Sony every time :lesson:
     
  5. MartinImber

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    OK I have a recent Sony and the picture on analogue is pants, however on digitle or any GOOD RGB sources the picture is better than anything else I have seen non HDTV.

    I like Trinitrons too!
     
  6. DRGL

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    Sony HQ100 here-best picture by far!! Recently repaired my mums ancient Sony(dry caps) and still working fine!!
     
  7. Tight Git

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    Your Dad is a wise man!

    Very few people would disagree that, compared to any alternative available at the time, the Trinitron was head and shoulders above the competition.

    The just visible tie wires, which supported the aperture grill, were about the only disadvantage.
     
  8. per-Sony-fied

    per-Sony-fied
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    This is why Sony put a 25 year patent on it. To clean up the market and shove all the competition aside. They clearly knew it was good.

    Now that the patent has expired many manufacturers have been keen to use the tube in their sets but mainly found in PC monitors. Just like the one I'm using ;)

    Having owned/own a Sony TV I can't say I've ever noticed the support wires.
     
  9. AllFumbs

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    Gentlemen: so nice to see my humble posting has elicited such interest. I'll try to address your observations in (approximate) turn.

    'per-Sony-fied': glad you described the old Trinitron as 'when Analogue was in its prime'. I remember having chosen carefully and am delighted to see that, for once, it seems I might've got it right.

    'Hungry Joe', hunger no longer. I checked the Panasonic TX28DTM1's operating-instructions and on p.43 it reads, 'AV1 Scart socket (RGB, Q-Link)'.
    AV2 is 'S-Video' and 'Q-Link'. I hope that helps.

    'Neiliboy', thanks also for the reassurance about Triniton's quality. Would you do me a small favour, please? Would you ask your Dad if he's any idea how much it'd cost to fix or replace the set's IR receiver in the front? And while I'm at it, the single Scart socket in back has always been wobbly: can that be made good inexpensively? It was why I started looking for a new telly in the first place; when trying to watch DVDs the Scart-cable'd come agley and the picture would gain a bluish cast, or green; or the sound'd go off. Ha, the mixed joys of old tellies. (Never any such prob with the RF-lead from a succession of VCRs, needless to say: truly fit-and-forget.)

    'MartinImber': thanks for your posting: keep the Trinitron faith, bro'.

    'DRGL': 'HQ100'? Sorry, don't understand your banter; do explain. And how old is 'ancient', out of interest?

    'Tight Git': would the 'tie wires' you mention cast a kind of wavering V-shape I can sometimes just discern hanging down, as it were, from the top dead centre of the screen? It's like the outline of a phantom ice-cream cornet. (Well, it is to me.) Other than that I reckon me old Sony's got the rest licked. (Though I'll be happy to read any other opinions, whether yeas or nays.) And ending on a frozen dairy-product note that, gentlemen, concludes my Magnum opus.

    Thank you for your time,
    AllFumbs.
     
  10. Tight Git

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    No, the tie wires (which I believe were used only on the larger Trinitrons) are two horizontal lines about one third and two thirds down the screen.

    They are most obvious when seen against a light background.

    But if you've never noticed them, then don't go looking, or they'll catch your eye forever more!

    (And thanks for calling TG a gentleman. Made my day. :smashin: )
     
  11. DRGL

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    'DRGL': 'HQ100'? Sorry, don't understand your banter; do explain. And how old is 'ancient', out of interest?


    KV36HQ100 :-

    [​IMG]

    "Ancient TV" was purchased in 1991 IIRC(OK not ancient but old in electronic terms!!) Tube is warn but still going strong after i replaced the capacitors :) It must be on every day for at least a few hours!
     
  12. per-Sony-fied

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    Huh! A widescreen Tv way back then. It was one of the first surely? No Widescreen programs to flavour either.
     
  13. Steve_P

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    The HQ100 was out last year, I nearly bought one but then strayed to the dark side. I'm guessing that DRGL's comments refer to two separate TV's the HQ100 & "The Ancient One".

    S.
     
  14. DRGL

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    as above,HQ100 is my current TV(and one the best IMO) The ancient one is the other ;)
     
  15. Majid Khan

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    The 36HQ100 had wonderful picture quality, was about to buy it last year but I thought I'd wait for the prices to come down a little... but such is my misfortune that within weeks Sony discontinue it !

    Still after a big screen, that leaves with no option but to go for either plasma (and lose sleep worrying about screen burn) or get an LCD (with picture quality so poor on some that I have seen, that the first colour CRT tvs of the 70s would put them to shame!)
     
  16. DRGL

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    Yep Sony no longer make the HQ100,infact they no longer seem to make a 36" CRT :(
     
  17. Majid Khan

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    Apparently from what I've been told at the Sony Centre, Sony have discontinued CRTs and are not planning on releasing any new CRT televisions in the UK, and were to focus on plasma and LCDs (that's what I was told a couple of months ago), went down last week and I was told that Sony have now decided to focus entirely on LCD televisions (their new Bravia range) and soon to discontinue plasma tvs too. :(
     
  18. DRGL

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    Put it this way,when i was having trouble with Sony CRT's(dont ask-search my posts and you will see!!) Sony offered me over £3K's worth of Plasma-i declined as the picture wasn't a patch on the HQ100!!!
     
  19. Prof

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    As an (ex)TV repair engineer, now working as an aerial installer and currently doing "research" prior to buying myself a new TV, I have come to the conclusion that over 95% of new TVs (including CRT, Plasma and LCDs) are inferior to over 95% of sets that were made over 10 years ago.

    Every day I get to see various TV sets owned by my customers. I regularly get called in to setup new TVs for customers. It isn`t very often that I am impressed with any of the pictures that I see on modern equipment. In fact, all too often I think to myself that my customers have wasted their money on the latest 100Hz, super flat, wizz-bang digital filter £1000 TV.

    My opinions on modern display technology have been further backed up after I have been looking to "upgrade" my Samsung 28" 4:3 10 year old TV. I`ve looked at all the usual suspects - Sony V series LCD Panasonic Viera LCD and Plasma, Hitachi 32PD7200 etc. I`ve tried to convince myself to part with £1500 to get 32" of LCD brilliance. OK, the HD demo in the showroom does look good, but how much will Sky be charging for this luxury ? Notice how they charge an extra £200 to get the 160Gb Sky+ instead of the 40Gb version, 160Gb drives are quite cheap these days, so I expect they won`t be "competitive" when it comes to Hi-Def. So, when I look at "normal" broadcasts on LCD and Plasma sets, what do I think ? Forget it, i don`t like the pixels. CRT seems to be the way to go. It`s 2005, CRT sets should be better than they`ve ever been. Technology has got better and cheaper, so Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba etc should be able to produce a CRT TV with an awesome picture. Thing is, I haven`t seen a picture that makes me go "wow" for quite a while. My old Samsung comes close. It`s 50Hz, it hasn`t got PIP or component inputs. Also, it hasn`t got any blurring when I watch football or use my XBOX on it. The picture has plenty of contrast, is smooth, but is sharp enough to show fine detail. I can switch it on and watch it without my attention being drawn to artifacts or motion blur. The only set that may tempt me to part with my cash is the Toshiba 32ZP48, but i`m going to try and find one to audition first.

    That`s what I think ! :lesson:
     
  20. AllFumbs

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    Prof: hear, hear. Or rather, see, see.

    I would've been perfectly happy to continue with my 20-year-old Sony but for the IR switch packing-in and the single Scart socket's always having been wobbly. But finding the Panny (TX28DTM1 – 50Hz, 'Freeview' built-in) at £268 and getting JLewis to price-match as well as throw-in that five-year parts'n'labour guarantee, did sugar the pill rather.

    By the way, my Sony also had a five-year g'tee all those years ago and boy! did it need it: the switch was its weak point: it actually went live. I lost count of the times it was changed: four? five? Well, anyway, they got it right eventually; and throughout there was always that wonderful picture.

    Sigh.

    AF.
     
  21. Prof

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    Ah yes, AllFumbs, Sony switches. I remember those. I used to regularly get Sony sets with faulty switches. I think that some models has to have switches fitted by Sony engineers, there was some sort of upgraded switch fitted.

    Back to the subject of new vs old (this subject has really got me going !). Reading some of the posts on this forum, and reading reviews of TVs in magazines makes me wonder if the owners/reviewers of these sets need their eyes testing. I have read rave reviews of the Panasonic Viera range of LCDs and Plasmas. I have seen these sets in action, and they are not bad, but not too good either. My eyes are analogue (although it won`t be long before the government insist that we all have digital implants fitted ;) ), and therefore I prefer to look at an analogue picture. During my working day I talk to customers about what TV they are planning to buy or have just bought. Most people are under the impression that Freeview/Sky + LCD/Plasma will give the best picture quality. If they have not yet made the purchase, I warn them of the consequenses. If they have just bought this equipment, I`m diplomatic ! It is quite apparent that the manufacturers and government are "forcing" the public into going down the digital route, and the public believe that digital is a big step forward. I hope that manufacturers will be able to develop LCD/Plasma technology to a point where there picture quality matches expectations. I`d be quite happy to part with £1K-2K for a flat screen that doesn`t suffer from motion blur and pixelation, but I haven`t found one yet. And just before I stop typing (i`m on a roll now), what`s all the fuss about Philips Pixel Plus ? It`s a good example of the way things are going. I installed an aerial for a customer with one of these sets a few days ago, so I had chance to have a good look at the set to see if I should get one. There is no way that I would be happy if I had to watch one of these for more than a few minutes. The only way I could get it to display a "watchable" picture was to turn off the pixel plus, even then it was nothing special. I`m afraid that we may well not get decent pictures on our TVs until High Definition becomes widely available. :mad:
     
  22. MartinImber

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    Well I bought a 50Hz no digital trickery TV and its nastiest thing is SVM, with ruins SVideo, Composite, and analogue tuner inputs

    Now this to me is no problem because I watch it digitally and use a Pace Twin for recording - all RGB and DVD is RGB as well.

    For DV I burn a DVD on the computer - again RGB.
     
  23. MartinImber

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    That said the TV does have an excellent DVB tuner.

    A little thing about RGB and 50Hz TVs

    If you use a discs like DVE and go to the sharpness screen it tells you to adjust the sharpness to see as much detail as possible with no ringing.

    However when you see ALL the detail with sharp edges and no ringing you can laugh at all the poor quality TVs and connections which lower the picture quality.
     
  24. TankTopLover

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    I have the 32ZP48 and can confirm that its picture is 'wow' :smashin:
     
  25. GPF

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    Good thread.

    Yes I also possess a vintage (over 20 years old, vertically flat but curved horizontally type) Trinitron, mine still worked until I moved and the tuner died which means I can no longer retune it to the local channels.

    I'm actually looking for a small widescreen LCD TV which will fit in my office. The problem is, the Sony (and my Iiyama monitor with the similar Mitsubishi Diamondtron CRT) has rather gotten me used to a sort of quality which is sadly lacking in many if not most current LCDs or Plasmas.

    Yes I *could* still use it with a digital box but I am going to bite the bullet and go LCD predominantly for reasons of space saving. When my trusty monitor finally dies I don't know what I shall do, maybe I ought to buy in a couple of CRTs while they're still available and hide them in the attic as future replacements.

    IME though LCD screens have improved in recent months they still lack a certain something which CRTs had in terms of image quality.

    Rather than improving LCDs to be competitive the manufacturers seem determined to discontinue CRTs in hopes that not enough of us will notice the difference.

    <sigh>
     
  26. Prof

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    Stuart69, I have a couple questions about the Tosh, if you would be kind enough to answer.

    1) Does the picture look "natural", ie not "plastic" like most of the 100Hz sets I have seen ?

    2) Is picture geometry OK, I`ve seen a lot of 16:9 TVs that show poor stretching and compressing of text as it scrolls across the screen.

    3) Do you ever play Videogames on it ? I have an XBOX and this gets fairly frequent use.

    And finally (for now !), How well does the picture sizing work ? I have trouble with some sets, trying to get the picture to "fit". Some sets do it better than others, some widescreen TVs can`t display pictures that are in the correct ratio most of the time.

    I have always thought that Toshiba TVs are some of the best in terms of picture quality, so I could be tempted !
     
  27. sean5302

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    Sony have effectively stopped manufacturing tvs.

    They have closed the Bridgend CRT plant. You cannot now get a 36" model though there are good stocks of 32" for the time being.

    Panasonic are in the same situation.

    Sony say plasmas are old technology. Heavy, fragile and prone to screen burn. They will stop making plasmas in January 2006. They are using up screen stocks (which they don't make themselves, either).

    Their LCDs will be made in Korea at the S-LCD Corp plant. Technically, it's a joint venture with Samsung, but given that it's located in Korea, not Japan and at the side of Samsung's electronics plant, it's a bit one-sided.
     
  28. per-Sony-fied

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    Plastic????? :confused:

    The only set/s I would say looks plastic is a Philips Pixel plus and then that is only on some shots of faces.
     
  29. Prof

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    What I mean by "plastic" is the effect that most 100Hz TVs show when displaying certain images. People`s faces can look rather pastel coloured when displayed on 100Hz TVs, the overall effect is that the picture does look like a computer image (which it basically is) compared with a 50Hz set. Some 100Hz sets that I have seen do not suffer from this problem as much as others. I think that the 50Hz "flicker" is a small price to pay compared with the processed look of a 100Hz picture. Having said that, I have seen a few 100Hz TVs that have made me comment on how good the picture is (I can`t remember which ones, but possibly Hitachi and Toshiba may do it better than others).

    It is really frustrating trying to find a good TV these days. I know a lot of people will think I don`t know what I`m talking about, but if they had seen the Mitsubishi Blue Diamonds (some of those sets produced "edible" pictures !), Sony Trinitrons (the old ones) and some of the Ferguson TX range of televisions that I have had dealings with in the past, then they too would realise that TV manufacturers these days have lost the plot.
     
  30. per-Sony-fied

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    I'm afraid I am one who has to disagree with you, while it is noticable that 50Hz sets generally have a more natural and 3 dimensional look I think the 50Hz flicker makes colours look weak and the tube emit more of a glare. In comparison 100Hz sets with their flicker free viewing look much richer in colour and contrast ratio. I prefer to forego the former for the latter.

    Yes I remember the Ferguson TX range well,this in particular as this was a set I used to work on in my college days. I thought way back then that the picture was astounding and something I'd love to get my hands on.

    My mates old Sony of 23 years or so young (still going I think but knackered tube) also gave a rather fantastic velvety picture with excellent blacks, the Tosh ZP48 reminds me a little of it. To wrap it all up his parents had a Mitsubishi that gave exceptional depth, so yea I know where your coming from TV's of the 20 year odd past gave great results..... all 50Hz sets too :)
     

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