2 Year Warranty as standard - EU Law

salubrious_k

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Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not a legal expert), but I've been doing a bit of research since I read a few comment regarding last night's Watchdog (which incidentally I didn't watch, so I hope I'm not repeating anything here).

Anyway, it seems that according to some EU legislation published in 1999, since 2002 it has become a legal requirement that all consumer goods sold in the EU must have a minimum of a 2 year warranty.

So from what I understand, if something breaks within 2 years and the retailer or manufacturer claim that there is only a 1 year warranty, you just need to quote Article 5 of the EU Product Warranty Directive (1999):

Article 5

Time limits

1. The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from delivery of the goods. If, under national legislation, the rights laid down in Article 3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that period shall not expire within a period of two years from the time of delivery.

If you fancy boring yourself to sleep or proving me wrong (which I admit could be the case), then you can read the whole directive here:
http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/s...numdoc&lg=EN&numdoc=31999L0044&model=guichett

So... am I right? Are we covered on our 360's for 2 years by EU law?
 
Well that's a bit crap. Why is the UK so slow, it suggests that this had to be in place by 2002:

Article 11

Transposition

1. Member States shall bring into force the laws, regulations and administrative provisions necessary to comply with this Directive not later than 1 January 2002. They shall forthwith inform the Commission thereof.
 
Hang on a minute...

I've just found this:
From a UK perspective 31 March 2003 may in due course come to be seen as a particularly significant date in that development process. On that date the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulation 2002 (SI 2002/3045, hereafter 'SSGCR') came into force, implementing EC Directive 1999/44/EC 'on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantess' of 25 May 1999 (OJ L 171/12).
Source: http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-925594-6.pdf

Now reading the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulation Act 2002 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm it doesn't make mention of a time period other than the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act, but surely if this new Act is the transposition of the 1999 EU Directive, that means that the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act must cover the minimum 2 year period required by the EU directive?
 
I'm sure i've read several times before that we in the UK are actually covered better than other countries in the EU (Such as Germany etc) already by the sales of goods act.

If your 360 breaks after a year, you could quite reasonably say it wasn't fit for the purpose. Who would expect to pay £300+ for a console for it to break after a year? Not me.

It might be hassle, but if mine breaks outside the warranty period i'll be kicking up a fuss!
 
Hang on a minute...

I've just found this:

Source: http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-925594-6.pdf

Now reading the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulation Act 2002 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm it doesn't make mention of a time period other than the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act, but surely if this new Act is the transposition of the 1999 EU Directive, that means that the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act must cover the minimum 2 year period required by the EU directive?
I am not a consumer law expert so do not rely on anything I say below. :)

The "reasonable amount of time" provision you mention is not relevant; it relates to the buyer ie the buyer must give the seller a reasonable time to repair or replace the goods.

The 2 years thing is misleading. It refers to an absolute time limit for making a claim based on a contract. In the UK we have and will continue to have a limitation period of 6 years.

Theoretically, you can take your 360 back within 6 years of purchasing it. However, legislation provides that after 6 months*, it's for the buyer to prove the goods were faulty at the time of purchase.

It is my understanding that there is no set amount of time within which you can return goods without fear of having to argue with the seller. Rather a common law right to return exists during the reasonable amount of time you have to assess the goods before being taken to have "accepted" them. This period of time is determined primarily by the nature of the goods. Expensive electronic goods should reasonably operate without problems for at least 1 year, hence we have recourse in the first year. Most manufacturers include a 1 year warranty as a result.

So essentially, little has changed.

* This is new. Previously the burden of proof was always with the buyer!
 
Hang on a minute...

I've just found this:

Source: http://fds.oup.com/www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-925594-6.pdf

Now reading the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulation Act 2002 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023045.htm it doesn't make mention of a time period other than the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act, but surely if this new Act is the transposition of the 1999 EU Directive, that means that the "reasonable amount of time" referred to in the Sale of Goods Act must cover the minimum 2 year period required by the EU directive?
The Sale of Goods Act has nothing whatsoever to do with a manufacturers warranty, or any relationship between consumer and manufacturer for that matter. Thanks for taking the time to look but its irrelevent when dealing with warranty periods, whether within the UK or EU.
 
I think ill be having a argument with microsoft later today =]
 
Just been on the phone with microsoft about when my warrrenty ends and its march 2007 (Funny that as I bought it on Decmeber 2nd 2005)

Also asked about a extended warrenty and then argued about the warrenty with that artical for the cheeky person to cut me off
 
The thing is that most retailers do not have the means or authority to address most of these intricate laws so you're pretty much wasting your time by arguing with staff in store. You're better off just writing to the retailer's customer services.
 
"The seller shall be held liable"

The EU directive says seller - not manufacturer. Doesn't affect the "12 month manufacturer's warranty".

Also, the 2 year period the EU thing gives is less than what we already have ("up to 6 years") under the Sale of Goods Act.
 
I know it will never happen but i just wish some hot shot lawyer would get peed off and take them to court an win.

Or everyone with a x360 or PS3 would donate £1 and pay for them to go to court. My PS3 died 1 week before the warrenty was up quite lucky but i know people who have had to pay the £150 to get a new one and they probably just reset the thing and ship it out to someone else.

I just dont think that 1year is reasonable and im sure in microsoft & sony's mission statments and product objectives a 1 year product life is what they see as reasonable either. If you asked them im sure they would deny it and praise how reliable the products are.

Sorry i havnt been any help on the legal side but its somthing that really fustraits me!

rant over

:lesson:
 
I'm not a lawyer and I'm not reading through the entire directive but I'd wager a small fee there is some small print about the liability being with the customer to prove a manufacturing defect and not one created by misuse. In a court of law if the burden of proof was with the customer it could cost thousands of pounds to have the equipment diagnosed. Its a safe bet you would be fine with a easy to prove systemic fault like the RROD but other less obvious faults would be very hard to win.

Also I could be wrong (see what Trading Standards say) but I'm pretty sure this law isn't relevant to the UK. For the people questioning why we don't just take all the good laws form the EU they should consider some laws benefit consumers, others don't. Personally I think as consumers we get very good protection as it is.
 
I know it will never happen but i just wish some hot shot lawyer would get peed off and take them to court an win.

Or everyone with a x360 or PS3 would donate £1 and pay for them to go to court. My PS3 died 1 week before the warrenty was up quite lucky but i know people who have had to pay the £150 to get a new one and they probably just reset the thing and ship it out to someone else.

I just dont think that 1year is reasonable and im sure in microsoft & sony's mission statments and product objectives a 1 year product life is what they see as reasonable either. If you asked them im sure they would deny it and praise how reliable the products are.

Sorry i havnt been any help on the legal side but its somthing that really fustraits me!

rant over

:lesson:

To be fair to Sony you can actually just buy their extended warranty and wait a week to get it repaired out of warranty. They've been good in that regard so far...
 
Just been on the phone with microsoft about when my warrrenty ends and its march 2007 (Funny that as I bought it on Decmeber 2nd 2005)

Also asked about a extended warrenty and then argued about the warrenty with that artical for the cheeky person to cut me off

But you didn't buy your Xbox from Microsoft. Your contract under law is with the shop that sold it to you so you need to take it up with them.
 
so quite simply, would i be able to get a refund or replacement for my £500 laptop which is just over 1 year old with a burnt out motherboard or not? thanks if any1 can help
 
I heard about this at lunch on Radio 2.
Some guy rang in and said that he had a TV fail after 18 months and returned it to Tesco and got a replacement after stating the EU Law for 2 years as standard on Warranty.

Anyone know more ?

Deftones
 
I heard about this at lunch on Radio 2.
Some guy rang in and said that he had a TV fail after 18 months and returned it to Tesco and got a replacement after stating the EU Law for 2 years as standard on Warranty.

Anyone know more ?

Deftones

Yes-me! :devil:

It was in this Saturday's Guardian,

The Guardian said:
I fought the store and the law won.

After 18 months, Peter Ward's TV broke down and Tesco refused to repair it. But, as Miles Brignall reports, EU rules give you two-year replacement rights, not one.

If you took a broken television back to the shop where you'd bought it a year and a month ago and were told you were out of luck as the guarantee had run out, would you accept this? Or would you demand a repair or replacement? Sadly the overwhelming majority of us would probably accept the shop's word that it was out of guarantee.

The good news is that EU rules mean you can take goods back up to two years later and obtain a replacement, even if the guarantee has expired.

Staff at the European Commission told Guardian Money this week that shoppers have an extremely strong case for demanding a repair, replacement or refund on items up to two years old – the minimum guarantee for all member states, including the UK. It is not a new rule, but it seems few shoppers or retailers are familiar with it.

One man who is fully aware of his rights, and was happy to take on the country's biggest retailer, is Peter Ward. He has just forced Tesco to replace a television even though it failed after 18 months. It took a long, and at times ugly, standoff during which he was threatened with forcible eviction from the store.

The retired teacher, who lives with his wife Gill in Liversedge near Leeds, bought the £400 Technika set from Tesco's Batley branch. When it went wrong two weeks ago, Ward called Tesco's repair helpline. After two 30-minute calls (at 10p per minute) he was told that the company stocked no parts and, because the TVs were "foreign made", no repairs were possible. This is in spite of the fact that Technika is a Tesco own-brand.

"I had read in a Reader's Digest book that all electronic items sold in Europe are now covered by the EU consumer rules which give the buyer a right to repair or replacement if the item failed within two years. So I wasn't going to back down," Ward says.

Armed with this information, the couple took the set back to the Batley branch, where the duty manager told them that as the set was more than 12 months old Tesco would not repair or replace it.

The Wards cited the EU rules, and a half-an-hour standoff ensued. A security guard threatened to forcibly remove them, and said he had called the police. "Eventually the manager went off to telephone someone at head office. He returned admitting that the European law was correct, and as the Technika set was not repairable we were entitled to a new set."

:eek:

The couple have since been given a replacement set worth £280, although Peter is still not entirely happy. "Tesco has also agreed to pay £111 to have our aerial upgraded as the replacement set would not work with our existing set-up. They have also offered a £75 clubcard payment, or £280 if I reject the TV. However the like-for-like replacement costs a further £120, and I've still got no apology for being treated like a criminal just for exercising my consumer rights," he says. "Had I not stuck to my guns, the most I would have got is £200 according to Tesco's documentation. How such a large company gets away with denying consumers their rights is beyond me," he says.

One reason stores are getting away with it is that the law in the area is complicated. The UK's Sale of Goods Act (Soga) gives consumers a longer protection period – up to six years, although in practice consumers find it difficult to enforce.

While the European Union website clearly backs up the two-year guarantee, you will find no information of the two-year rule on the government's Consumer Direct website. "Sellers … are obliged to guarantee the conformity of the goods with the contract for a period of two years after the delivery of the goods," the EU says.

An updated directive is being worked on, although it is not expected to become law for at least another year.

According to Which? consumer lawyer Chris Warner, too few people are aware of their rights. "While it is true that the EU consumer rules mean stores should repair or replace items that break inside two years, Soga affords consumers protection up to six years from the date of purchase."

The act says all goods sold have to be of "satisfactory quality and fit for purpose", however he admits that getting a refund for a broken item in the UK is a bit hit and miss once it is more than a year old.

"The confusion arises from the existence of manufacturer guarantees. These are often for one year and often consumers will be told that when the manufacturer's guarantee runs out, there is nothing else that can be done. This is not right in most cases.

"The courts will judge what is reasonable. Clearly if you buy a £10 iron, your expectations are not the same as if you've bought the top-of-the-range model. If you bought the latter and it failed after four years, it would be reasonable to argue that it should have lasted longer, and that a repair or replacement is due.

"I don't think it's too cynical to say that retailers have been happy to let consumers think they have only a year's guarantee," he says.

A spokeswoman for the Department for Business said a forthcoming consumer white paper will include proposals to further clarify the law. "We will also be launching a campaign to raise awareness of consumer rights."

Perhaps, if more people take Peter Ward's approach, retailers will eventually have to adopt the John Lewis stance and give a two-year guarantee on products.

Last year we exposed how Amazon was offering repairs on items only up to six months old, relying on consumers deciding it wasn't worth pursuing the online retailer. :eek: :nono:

Meanwhile, momentum appears to be gathering behind the EC's plan to impose a pan-European guarantee on all products, so you could buy something in Lyons and return it in Manchester. That right may be as little as a year away.

[email protected]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/may/23/tesco-consumer-guarantee
 
so it looks like he got it replaced with the sale of goods act, as they have taken some difference(£120) or thereabouts off his settlement(replacement tv).
what they did do is replace his aerial, and replace his tv, at about £9 less than the total he paid..bargain..i dont think so...
the 2 year pan european warranty is still not uk law, so you cant rely on that, at the moment, the sale of goods act covers you just as well, and for longer.
 
so it looks like he got it replaced with the sale of goods act, as they have taken some difference(£120) or thereabouts off his settlement(replacement tv).
what they did do is replace his aerial, and replace his tv, at about £9 less than the total he paid..bargain..i dont think so...
the 2 year pan european warranty is still not uk law, so you cant rely on that, at the moment, the sale of goods act covers you just as well, and for longer.
Surely the EC Directive 1994/44/EC is law in the UK and it gives you the right of repair, replacement or refund up to 2 years.
The trouble with the SOGA is that whilst 6 years sounds very nice, the onus is on the buyer to prove that the goods are faulty, other than by wear and tear or accident and you might have to prove this in a court of law.
The 2 year EU warranty period is much more cut and dried. It's just that most retailers are not aware of it and you may have to stand your ground to get your rights, as per the guy with Tescos.
 
Surely the EC Directive 1994/44/EC is law in the UK and it gives you the right of repair, replacement or refund up to 2 years.
The trouble with the SOGA is that whilst 6 years sounds very nice, the onus is on the buyer to prove that the goods are faulty, other than by wear and tear or accident and you might have to prove this in a court of law.
The 2 year EU warranty period is much more cut and dried. It's just that most retailers are not aware of it and you may have to stand your ground to get your rights, as per the guy with Tescos.

no, not as per the guy in tesco's, as he has had obviously a chunk taken off his tv price for prior use, as per the sale of goods act, and as he has said himself, a like for like would cost him another £120, making up the £400 he originally spent on the tv.
the EU directive is still not in place with uk consumer law.
you can try, and maybe you will get somewhere, but its still not standard.
 
As one of the poor sods on the front line, I wish the EU would try putting in place some legislation to protect the retailer! I see people complaining in this thread and being told that they need to get back to the retailer..Correct - BUT- Its not (always) their fault! You want cheap products - fine - I do too... But be warned - corners WILL be cut. Then, when they fail 18 months down the line it is the retailler who is being threatened with legal action. A retailler in this situation may replace it - at their loss, then they end up with a defective product and may end up writing it off. Or they may refuse, dont start ranting and raving, if you have a genuine grievance work with the retailler AND the manufacturer. We have coutless battles getting items LESS than a year old returned to wholesalers and manufacturers for credit - WE have no rights in this respect, they simply become our property when we buy them, yet when we sell them on - we are held accoutable.

With legislation to protect the retailer manufacturers would have to improve quality control and design.. But it WILL end up costing the end buyer. I am old enough to remember when a colour TV was the cost of the family Morris Minor car, now its less than a weeks wages for some people - the TV that is :)
 
Surely the EC Directive 1994/44/EC is law in the UK and it gives you the right of repair, replacement or refund up to 2 years.
The trouble with the SOGA is that whilst 6 years sounds very nice, the onus is on the buyer to prove that the goods are faulty, other than by wear and tear or accident and you might have to prove this in a court of law.
The 2 year EU warranty period is much more cut and dried. It's just that most retailers are not aware of it and you may have to stand your ground to get your rights, as per the guy with Tescos.

The KEY word in your first line says everything.

Its an EU Directive, not Law, and don't confuse the words in the same sentence to mean the same thing..It doesnt'

This whole thread is just hot air with too many desktop lawyers not understanding what an EU Directive is.

When UK Parliament updates the SOGA to reflect the directive, -THEN- we'll all have some fun.

Dont hold your breath though....
 

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