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2 quick (ish) questions

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by theo cupier, Dec 31, 2004.

  1. theo cupier

    theo cupier
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    maybe with quick answers, maybe not:

    1. I'm getting a Yamaha DSP-E800 processor to pair with my Musical Fidelity B1 amp. I intend to connect all my audio sources direct to the B1 (as at present) so I won't be able to use a sub whilst listening to music (since the sub would come off the E800) and the E800 won't do anything beneficial for my audio signal.

    Obviously if I can't use the sub for music, without the E800 messing with the audio signal then I don't need to worry about a 'musical' sub. But does the E800's subwoofer connection mean I can't use some subs which have high level and low level inputs?

    2. My front speakers are Rogers LS4a, which (when combined with the B1) feel like they have a competent bass coverage already - allegedly they go as low as 55Hz. Am I going to get an appreciable benefit from a small sub, even one like the XLS200, MS309, or Vita 100, or do I really need to move up a level?

    3. (Sorry I lied about 2 questions!) If the above 3 subs would not add enough punch, can you recommend some boxes to look for, either new or second hand, in the upto £250 (ish) range?

    I don't think I'm looking for a glass shattering experience from the sub. My existing setup can already frighten children without going above 50%, but I'd like to be able to fill the real low range out a bit more. Perhaps a gentle trouser flapping experience, then...

    Your advice and recommendations gratefully received.
     
  2. Dfour

    Dfour
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    1/ I think this all depends upon the sub in question. I believe Rel subs can be connected wit hi and low at the same time so can be used by both. Most cant.

    2/ If they only go th 55 then a sub is a definate as a cheaper sub will still be usable down to 30ish give or take. I would look at the vita 100 as (from what ive heard) its almost the same as the xls200 for £75 less. It will fill in the range your main speakers can go. I know someone has a Rel quake for sale in the classifieds and tht will let you use the high and low connectors. Ask the owner first or Rel incase im wrong.:eek:
    3/ see 2 :)

    Hope this helps a little. Also worth asking BK electronics if you can connect the hi and low on the xls200 or vita 100 at the same time as I know you cant with the MS 309.
     
  3. theo cupier

    theo cupier
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    Dfour - thanks for this.

    After another quick scan of the forum trying to understand high and low level inputs, I think I asked slightly the wrong question. :blush:

    I didn't mean 'can you connect high and low AT THE SAME TIME' just whether the E800 would support either.

    Am I right in thinking that 'low level' basically means the phono lead connection which seems to be the 'standard' way of connecting a sub - and so should be supported by any amp?

    Does the 'high level' connection also feed in to the phono out (basic sub speaker) socket on the amp, but just use different cable and connector to the sub, or is there a completely different type of socket on the back of the amp for this type of connection? If so, does the DSP-E800 have this socket?

    As you can probably guess I'm a bit new to this subwoofer lark, so any help is appreciated. I just want to make sure that, first off, I'm buying a sub I can actually connect to my new amp and then ensure I'm spending my money on a sub which will make a difference to my system.
     
  4. bob1

    bob1
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    High level is using the speaker cable straight from your b1 amp.The bk as well as others use a Neutrik connection for this, the bk can use high and low level sources at the same time.This means you could use the b1 for music and the 800 using the phono the connection for movies.
     
  5. theo cupier

    theo cupier
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    bob - thanks.

    The B1 is 2-channel only and has no pre-outs for a sub (just the L & R speaker connections). How would the sub connect to this?

    Sorry if this is a dim question...

    Edited to say: actually does this thread answer my question about connecting to a 2-channel amp?

    Do I need to disconnect any of this to listen to movies? surely if I did not the subwoofer would be getting a high and low level signals simultaneously?!
     
  6. bob1

    bob1
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    The sub would/can connect to the speaker connections on the b1.
    The thread you linked to does answer the question.
    The 3rd question i don't know as i have never had a sub where both could be connected at the same time but as both can be connected at the same time it would not harm the sub.
     
  7. Nimby

    Nimby
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    Did you know that the DSP-ES800 is discontinued?

    I found one at a British dealer after an online search but they wouldn't post to the continent! :mad:

    Other online dealers seem to be asking very silly prices.

    The ES800 has a good reputation with owners of some very expensive stereo systems. It had the advantage of allowing Luddites like us to try multichannel without losing the quality from the main speakers. Since it allowed the stereo system to funtion as normal but provided the power and processing for rear speakers.

    At least this is my understanding from reading posts on other fora and online research. Any further information on the DSP-E800 and where it might be obtained would be gratefully received. I would like to be able try my own SVS from a dedicated LFE or 'Subwoofer-Out' socket.

    I use high level stereo subwoofer connections myself. But thought the subwoofer sound from a cheap AV receiver (which I tried briefly) was actually superior! Even if the main speaker sound quality was utter crap in comparison with my Naim kit. (at ten times the price) :blush:

    You'd think the idea of an add-on processor for stereo fans would sell in lorry loads wouldn't you?

    I hope my rambling isn't too off-topic for the sub forum? :)

    Regards
    Nimby
     
  8. Ian J

    Ian J
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    quote transferred from another thread.

    The MS309 can not be connected at high and low level simultaneously.

    Personally I would go for the BK downfirer as it will provide exactly what you need in terms of flexibility of connection, power and finesse.
     
  9. MS-Yam

    MS-Yam
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    Ian J,

    Have you heard both the 309 and the XLS200? I am STILL struggling with my decision between them. At first I thought it would be crazy to go for anything but the the 309, due to the fact that I have a full MS Avant setup (906, 905, 902). But now I have read a lot on the forums about the BK sub, I just cant decide!!

    I can get the 309 for £205, or the BK for £290 ish delivered. Please can you let me know your thoughts on the difference between the two, in terms of build quality, and more importantly sound quality. Also, how they perform with music as well as films.

    At the moment I have the 308, so I know either sub will be a huge step up.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  10. Dfour

    Dfour
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    MsYam :hiya:

    I have owned the 309 and had it head to head with the forward firing xls200 (see the budget sub test). My opinion and of the test is that the xls200 is the better sub by a little bit. Its smaller if that concerns you, it goes a little deeper than the 309 and has a little more power and presence. You would be happy with whichever you chose out of those as they are both fantastic subs.
    I would be more tempted to go for the 309 as it will match all your MS stuff :cool:
     
  11. MS-Yam

    MS-Yam
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    thanks Dfour,

    So do you reckon either subs will be far better than my 308?

    Mind you, I could do with a small sub as this lot is beginning to look a bit 'cluttered' in my bedroom.

    I just hope when I com eto get my own place, this lot will go nicely with the decor! It'll be the decor that gets changed first! HAHA
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I'm afraid that I haven't heard the MS309 although I like it's bigger brother, but that's another story.

    Dfour has heard both so i would go along with what he said.
     
  13. Kazman

    Kazman
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    The BK maybe small, but it gives off a great sound, the MS309 sub is also a cracker though, but the BK did better it at normal listening levels.

    I prefer the look of the MS309 to the BK, that Aluminium look driver looks well nice :), I would also say the BK is a bit faster than the 309. The 309 is cheaper though.

    To be honest, you would be happy with either sub :)
     
  14. MS-Yam

    MS-Yam
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    thanks for your comments.

    Kazman, you say the BK is faster - I read a post (cant remember who by) saying their BK is pretty poor with music and that it was slow. Would you say this is utter rubbish? Maybe the guy had it set up wrong.

    If the 309 is slower, does this mean it won't be up to scratch with dance music with a reasonably fast beat? Dont get me wrong, I dont listen to hard trance or anything as fast and in your face, but I do listen to a lot of dance/house. Is the 309 good enough for this? Having said this, when I listen to CDs I have my sub fairly low anyway - my 906s are pretty bassy on there own.

    I'd rather go for the best sounding sub rather than one that matches the rest of my kit. If spending another hundred quid for the BK will give £100 worth of extra quality, I dont mind spending the extra notes.

    I just dont know! Whenever I make my mind up, something in my head tells me the other one will be better! And I know whichever one I go for, when I get it, i'll be thinking, "hmmm, have I made the right choice?", even if it's perfect! Am I unique or has anybody else experienced this???
     
  15. theo cupier

    theo cupier
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    MS-Yam - know where you're coming from. I've got to the stage where I'm going to get an XLS200, unless someone can tell me a cheaper sub will be worthwhile and not a compromise. Richer Sounds' Trade Counter claims to have a few 309s for £99 at the moment which may swing the decision for some people.

    Wierdos like me who want simultaneous high and low level connections are opting for the XLS200 (if you've got a spare, head over to my Wanted ad...). This seems just to have the edge over the Vita 100.
     

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