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2 Pairs of sides

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by Mark Ward, Nov 5, 2002.

  1. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I've been considering my side-speaker options for my new HT room which I hope to useable pre-Christmas.

    I'm a Di-pole lover. When I got my TDM34DS's it absolutely transformed my room giving me the enveloping sound I always wanted. My current room however allows no option for 7.1 and very little choice of surround speaker placement.

    My new room is completely flexible in this respect. Because of the size of the room (42ft x 20ft Approx with around 35ft between fronts and rears) I am considering 2 pairs of sides.

    If I go for Di-Poles careful placement can allow each pair to be in the null position for each of the 2 main seating positions. There will currently about 15ft distance between the front chairs position and the sofas further back.

    I was previously considering adding a second pair of TDM34DS's sides which would give the room

    Kef Ref 4.2 Fronts
    Kef Model 200 Centre
    2 X TDM34DS sides
    Kef Ref 2.2 Rears

    but I can see some problems with this.

    The intended forward firing driver of the rear pair will be firing in the direction towards the back of the front seats and similarly the rear firing driver of the front pair will end up aimed at and in front of the rear seats.

    Suddenly direct firing seems a better option again.

    I have room to choose between floor standers or wall mounted options. My concerns are that many direct firing speakers need to be away from the wall behind them to give optimum performance.

    Any thoughts?

    Mark.
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi Mark

    I would have thought in this case a pair of direct radiators would suit your room better. Leave the dipoles at the sides as normal but have the direct radiators at the other spot and angled towards the listening position. Have you considered the Kef RDM1´s?? Can be wall/stand mounted and more important is that they are sealed boxes so no ports to have to worry about.:) They will also match your other speakers very well. Should be available at knockdown prices as well, seeing as the newer models are out now.
     
  3. EvilMudge

    EvilMudge
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    Interesting problem.

    Given the size of the room - I'd suggest you go for direct radiators, two each for the L/R Surrounds, with a deadened baffle in between something like this:

    Surround1 - - - - - - - - Baffle - - - - - - - - Surround 2

    This should prevent the two speakers from interacting and interfering too much though it may look ugly with a large projection into the room space. You could do without the baffle if the rears are far enough apart or you could toe them out - but this might give you a very wide but not particulary good soundstage.
     
  4. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Hi Jase
    Good idea!

    My long term plans will include replacing all my speakers. I'm considering a number of options including Active M&K's from Eric, although that would mean moving away from my beloved Kefs. Having made 11 Kef purchases so far you may get the idea that I'm rather keen on them :)

    This could be a very useful short term solution.

    Mark.
     
  5. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Interestingly there is already a "baffle" of a fireplace between the proposed positions to the right. It wouldn't be very difficult to create a similar effect with display furniture opposite.

    My room can be seen here if it helps with any ideas you may have.

    I really like the idea of the RDM's and two pairs of these would probably be a better solution than sticking with the TDMs.

    Jase... How would RDM2's work in these position with 4.2 fronts and 2.2 Rears?

    Cheers guys,

    Mark.
     
  6. Jase

    Jase
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    Mark

    The RDM2´s are ported (front) so have better bass extension, and are slightly bigger & they´ll still match your other Kef Ref´s as they have the same drivers.

    I rate the RDM´s highly, we´ve still got my old RDM1´s in the family.:)

    Your room is coming along nicely as well.:) Bloody big though isn´t it!!:eek: :)
     
  7. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    It would be coming along even quicker of any of the tradesmen ever turn up :(

    Plumber been to look a rads to be moved, boiler to be moved out of adjacent room etc. etc. Didn't hear from him again so I chased him up yesterday and he promised my quote by last night. Guess what... No quote still.

    Carpenter never even turned up but got me to take detailed photos of door frames I need doors for. Have chased up twice and still no quote (and I know this guy personally).

    Electrician booked him to give me a quote. Didn't turn up "Couldn't find the house" It's bloody HUGE! You can't miss it!...but he's a bit busy now so he will have to pass.

    Rubble removal. All piled up outside for contractor to remove. So far haven't turned up 3 times!

    Yes I know, probably too big but is available and I can think of worse problems to have :)

    Mark.
     
  8. Jase

    Jase
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    It´s not just the UK that has problems with tradesmen etc, we have it over here as well.:( We´re lucky that we´ve got a couple of very reliable guys now for the plumbing & electrics but its taken a few years!!

    I´d rather have your problem of a room too big than a room thats too small and you can´t fit the kit you want into it!! I reckon its going to look pretty damn good when you have it all sorted.:)
     
  9. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    Having added up what I'd like to put in the room I'm beginning to wonder if will ever be all sorted.

    I hope to have it useable for this Christmas but that'll be with rugs & carpet remnants on the floor and boarded up windows etc.

    Plumber and carpenter turning up a crucial to this happening though. Electrician isn't so important. I have power I just wanted to run dedicated ring-mains.
    Will they have any problems being directly against the wall? I already have a lead on at least one pair at a very good price :)

    Looks like my 8 month old TDMs will find their way on to Ebay or the Classified forum before Christmas.

    Cheers,

    Mark.
     
  10. EvilMudge

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    Mark,

    Very interesting room you've got there. I still stand by my idea of putting plasterboard partitions in, but having looked at the ceiling, I'd suggest if you can afford it going for 3 in wall speakers mounted in their own enclosures in a bastion arrangement.
    This is because you have a very high arched ceiling which could cause all sorts of primary and secondary interference from two cabinet speakers unless the baffle went all the way to the top of the arch.
    Isolating the speakers should get around this problem.
    You would then get something approaching the effect of the rear array of a commercial cinema, with a huge soundfield.
    You can play around with the relative phase of the speakers to produce the sound which best suits the room, which you can't usually do with bi-poles and dipoles.

    However the cost could be quite substantial :D
     
  11. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I'm not really sure I understand what you mean here...
    I like the sound of this.
    My current strategy is to keep my head firmly in the sand and not think about this.

    My latest thinking having further considered Eric's "How not to choose speakers" post and Jase's replies to this thread is the following

    Kef Ref4.2 Fronts
    Kef Model 200 Centre
    Kef Ref2.2 Rears
    (Above Bi-Amped using 2 X 5 Channel Power Amps)

    Kef RDM2 Wall Mounted Sides (2 Pairs)
    (Above Bi-Amped using my existing Harmon/Kardon Power Amps.

    Mark.
     
  12. EvilMudge

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    Mark,
    I'll try to knock something up in a CAD package and PM it to you this evening. This should give you a better idea as to what I'm talking about. Just be glad you've got a high ceiling - I'm dreading the possibility that my GF's dad might want to put a home cinema in his longe - it's about the same size as your room (ie HUGE) but with about an 8 foot high ceiling.
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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    Being front ported you shouldn´t have too many problems but it may be worth calling Kef to see what they say about it, if it will affect the frequency response etc.
     
  14. filmman

    filmman
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    dear mark
    since you say you intend to replace all your speakers, have you considered a kef thx package?
    i used to have kef 105 fronts,200 center.,tdm34 dipoles,rel storm. changing the fronts etc to the thx speakers made the world of difference,fantastic on films and good on music.
     
  15. Mark Ward

    Mark Ward
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    I have considered the THX package and haven't ruled it out completely.

    However, I'm not convinced that they wouldn't be a step backwards from where I am right now.

    The Model 200 Centre instead of my Model 100 isn't a big deal, buying the 4.2's is however. The RDMs (one pair) will likely cost a similar amount to that I could sell my TDM's for.

    The departure from di-pole TDM's (which I love) is a bit of a gamble but sound dispersal in such a big space isn't really an issue.

    The RDM2's have if I recall the same drivers as the Kef Reference range in a compact cabinet so they would be a good match for the Refs.

    The one thought that is still nagging me is that I need more amplification. To Bi-Amp the 4.2 Front Model200 centre and 2.2 Rears will require an extra 10 power amp channels. That's 2 high quality 5 Channel Power Amps I'll also have to buy. My existing power amps would then be used on the 2 pairs of side RDM's.

    The big question is whether M&K Prof. Active Speakers would make a better choice for me. Being a Kef man through and though I'm almost too scared to go and listen to them.

    Physical building costs are already getting a bit out of control too but that's a bit OT for this thread.

    Mark.
     

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