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2 HCPC problems (pics included)

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by Punce, Mar 21, 2002.

  1. Punce

    Punce
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    Could somone try and help me out with a couple of problems that are really annoying me!

    Problem 1:

    Take a look at this pic - click here

    See how bad the colours blend in? Help?


    Problem 2:

    Look at this - click here

    Whenever there's fast motion, I keep seeing these horizontal flickering lines, they are very quick but highly noticable. I'm sure it was fine a couple of days ago :confused:

    So this is my hardware (important bits):

    Panasonic PT-AE100E
    Voodoo 3500 AGP 16Mb (using 2m VGA cable)
    PIII - 1GHz
    512Mb RAM
    Pioneer 106s DVD-ROM

    Software:

    PowerDVD 4
    Powerstrip (Li On's settings for AE100)
    Region Killer

    I'm beginning to feel that I should upgrade to a Radeon 7500, but I want some expert help ;)

    Cheers,

    Punce
     
  2. Comer

    Comer
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    Firstly I'm no expert. I have often come across problem 1, I'll leave it to somebody else.

    Problem 2: It's amazing that u caught this on camera. That's tearing. Happens on LCD projectors, usually when they are fed a signal at a refresh rate other than 60Hz. Run a search in the LCD forum, and HCPC forum for "tearing". If you find a remedy, please let me know. In fact if u check out a thread on the LCD forum titled "Anybody got an MT3 in Ireland" posted today by myself, you should find out all u need to know if you check out the link in ROnes post.


    Conor
     
  3. jrwood

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    For problem one are you running your desktop in 16bit or 32bit mode?. If its 16bit mode then switch it to 32bit mode, but if your running it in 32bit mode then switch it to 16bit mode!.... if its set to 32bit mode the graphics card probably does'nt have enough memory for the overlay or something...

    For problem two looks rather strange, if you look in the projector manual (well it mine it tells me!) there should be a chart which tells you the polarity of the signal and its different presets for the various resolutions. Mine states that its negative polarity and the magic numbers for the various vertical refresh rates, which you can change in powerstrip.

    You will probably find that the problem will go away once you set the correct polarity & vertical refresh rate....although my projector doesnt care what refresh rate you set it to, however some projectors do...

    James
     
  4. jrwood

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  5. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Yep - first one looks like not enough colours on the graphics card set up. As someone else suggested, you need 32bit.
    Second looks like tearing due to an underpowered PC.
    What's the spec?
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Upgrade to a Radeon and problem 1 - posterisation, should dissapear. I've a 3500tv in my desktop machine, and a Supergrace Radeon VE (from ebuyer.com) in my htpc, and the Radeon is noticably better, and with no posterisation. The same effect is visible at the beginning of Titanic with the 3500, but not with the Radeon.

    You could also use a Pinnacle PCTV Rave as a capture card/deinterlacer (with DScaler) if you need video capture.

    Not sure how to cure the tearing problem, but as someone else mentioned, a visit to avsforum should help solve it.

    I didn't realise LCDs had probs with anything other than 60hz. I'm sure many are running 72hz for ntsc and 75hz for pal. A bit more reafing is needed I think..

    Gary.
     
  7. Punce

    Punce
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    I'd already tried the colours settings, but to no avail.

    I'm sure it's the Voodoo 3 card, as I get the same problem on my monitor! Is this sound reasoning?
     
  8. jrwood

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    Yeah sounds like its the card though you could try 8bit mode/256 colour desktop, to be honest I would'nt use anything else but an ATI graphics card with a projector, much better vibrant colours from ATI than any other manufactuers imho...probably due to the 10bit DAC

    You could try changing drivers on your voodoo3 but to be honest for the price of the new radeons you would get far better game performance, far crisper display for 2D applications and whats more decent overlay/vibrant picture for your projector :)

    James
     
  9. GrahamC

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    Hi All,

    I remember something about desktop colour needs to be at the same as application colour depths for some cards/application and the tearing looks like refresh problem/vid sync problem.
     
  10. jrwood

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    From my understanding the desktop depth has nothing to do with displaying DVD pictures as the overlay is 32bit....

    Therefore if you run into a video ram problem (i.e on a laptop) then reduce it to 16bit mode and then you can run the overlay properly for DVD playback.
     
  11. Jeff

    Jeff
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    The overlay is 24bit 8-8-8. The desktop colour setup is independant, but can affect the overlay on low spec video cards with limited memory.
     
  12. Punce

    Punce
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    Just placed an order with ebuyer for a Radeon 7500 - £112 all in. I'll let you know if it cures the problems.

    Thanks everyone (That makes sense Jeff cheers)

    Regards

    Mark
     
  13. tk

    tk
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    That's tearing. Try reducing refresh rate to 60Hz. Most digital projectors show tearing at any other than 60Hz refresh rate.
    Also you can test suitable refresh rates by using Video2000's tearing test. Download Video2000 from www.madonion.com.
     
  14. Rob.Screene

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    Try re-installing DirectX. I had this solarisation/banding problem on the desktop (not noticed on overlay) with some Radeon drivers myself a few times.


    regards,
    rob.
     
  15. jrwood

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    Suppose I should bang this on its own thread....but does anyone know why the 7200 was discontinued?. Also I have noticed that local shops only sell the ATI 8500 and the ATI 7000 cards, I have never seen the 7500 on the shelf!.

    You would think that retailers these days would try and give the customer choice considering the competition from ecommerce companies..
     
  16. tk

    tk
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    It's very hard to find original ATI 7500 cards these days. All Radeon 7500 cards available are made by OEM's now.
     
  17. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    You could try a Supergrace Radeon card from www.ebuyer.com

    I'm using one in my htpc, and the quality is excellent. Only drawback is that you may not be able to install pukka ATI drivers. The drivers that come with it are ATI, but I think the card is electronicaly different, so the ATI installer doesn't recognise it. Supergrace must modify the instaler slightly.

    HTH

    Gary.
     
  18. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    VOODOO 3 ?!!!!!
    Absolutely do not recommend using such an ancient card as a voodoo!
    Ditch that old card and get a radeon VE.
     
  19. Punce

    Punce
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    I've ordered this one - click here

    Seems like a proper ATI retail card to me. When you navigate through the menus on the ebuyer site there are a few Supergrace ones available, and the one I've ordered doesn't actually show up in the list. However, if you search for "radeon 7500" in their Quick Find facility, the one I've ordered appears first in the list - WEIRD - don't they want to sell them or something?:rolleyes:

    Mark
     
  20. Punce

    Punce
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    Right then, my Radeon 7500 retail card arrived yesterday, so I immediately replaced my Voodoo 3.

    I was hoping all my problems were going to be a thing of the past - but AAAARRGGGGHHHHHH, there's still problems!

    ok, the posterisation seems to have improved, only when I increase the colours to 32 bit. But there's still some tearing happening. I decided to forget about the pj for a moment, and used the monitor for diagnosing, and the tearing happens on that too. It's as if the DVD is not fast enough or something :confused:

    But to add to stress, I've noticed a new problem that I didn't have on my Voodoo 3 card. There seems to be a lot of fine vertical "stripes" - as if you were looking through slightly distorted glass - so it makes diagonal lines look very jagged indeed! What on Earth is going on.

    I'm desperate now, I haven't watched a film right through for weeks! :( :mad:

    Mark
     
  21. jrwood

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    What driver version are you using?, I believe the 6037 are the ones you want to use. Also if you click on DISPLAYS and then choose your projector you can change the horiz/vert polarity of the signal fed to the projector. Your projector manual should tell you what signal it expects. Also you need to need to make sure your sending a 1 to 1 pixel mapping of the panel size otherwise you may be seeing the scaler artifacts in the picture?.

    Also it might be an idea to try and use a different VGA cable from PC to projector in case yours is faulty..

    Post as much info as poss!.

    James
     
  22. Punce

    Punce
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    I tried the drivers that came with the box to start with, and then I downloaded the latest from ATI (6037) and installed that one - exactly the same!

    I was thinking of removing the PT-AE100E pj out of the equation, and trying to get it to work well with my monitor first.

    I'm currently using PowerDVD XP 4.0, but just lately, funny things have been happening with it, sometimes it pauses for no reason, and sometimes when I want to pause, it won't let me. So I feel an uninstall coming on. I'm also going to try Zoom Player with different filters, to see if that cures it.

    Which filters are recommended for best video playback, is it the CinePlayer one?

    Thanks

    Mark

    PS - I'm running Windows 2000
     
  23. jrwood

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    Are you using the Auto Pixel Alignment(APA) feature on your projector?. It will be called something else on yours (autoconfig?)but it will be there as I spoke to another panasonic user about this over at avsforum.com. Along with various other things it configures your Clock (pixel frequency) automatically. Clock basically controls the number of pixels scanned by one horizontal sweep. If this frequency is not correct, vertical stripes appear and the width of the screen will be off. The auto config also resizes your screen with your video input signal and adjusts the screen perfectly for you and you should use this feature on the projector everytime you boot into Windows.

    However if you see stripes on your monitor then you know the graphics card is faulty. Also the tearing is probably due to the incorrect refresh rate which may also be the culprit of the vertical banding. I think most projectors should be set to 60hz although mine quite happily excepts most vertical refresh rates. Try setting yours to 60hz as a test though and also 72hz ideally?.

    Once you get your HTPC working then its probably a good idea to look into utilities such as GHOST or DRIVEIMAGE and then start fiddling if you want to tweak/enhance your HTPC further as sometimes to improve a PC you end up breaking it. With a GHOST or DRIVEIMAGE you can simple rollback to your old settings, which is why I always use a seperate drive just for the operating system and general utilities..

    James

    p.s http://www.omegacorner.com/ looks like a nice site to read later on :)
     
  24. Punce

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    So everything is working like a dream now :)

    So what was causing the tearing? Well, it was PowerDVD XP 4.

    I started to get odd things happening, so I decided to start up Zoom Player, and use the PowerDVD filters. And it worked flawlesly - so it must have been something wrong with the program itself.

    I'm really content with Zoom Player, I'm using CinePlayer filters at the moment, and no problems there either. Watched Final Fantasy earlier, and the picture was stunning!

    Thanks to all for your support - hopefully this thread might help someone else out with the help of the search facility ;)

    Regards

    Mark
     
  25. jrwood

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    I think whats happened is that when you installed PowerDVD XP the program 'optimised' the display for your old Voodoo3 card which probably has very poor DVD support. I think their is a variable called FlipSync which basically synchronises the display for DVD playback. Maybe if you check the registry under Cyberlink/PowerDVD in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SOFTWARE there is a setting to turn this back on. Now that you have a decent DVD capable graphics card, its probably best to reinstall PowerDVD so that it knows the capabilites of your new card.

    I currently use ZoomPlayer with cineplayer video&audio filters as I think they are currently the best :)

    James
     

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