2,400 Electric new car charging bays across 600 Tesco stores

Discussion in 'Hybrid, PHEV & EV Electric Cars Forum' started by Stuart Wright, Nov 30, 2018.


    1. Stuart Wright

      Stuart Wright
      AVForums Founder Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 24, 2000
      Messages:
      14,735
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      2
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Birmingham, UK
      Ratings:
      +10,623
      • Like Like x 1
      • Useful Useful x 1
      • List
    2. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      Awesome...
       
    3. scarty16

      scarty16
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 1, 2003
      Messages:
      1,471
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      86
      Ratings:
      +344
      been telling everyone for about 12 months this will happen. petrol stations will basically now all cease to be in their current form and become coffee shop drive throughs with charging points
       
    4. themovierooms

      themovierooms
      Well-known Member AVForums Sponsor

      Joined:
      Aug 6, 2013
      Messages:
      1,007
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      117
      Location:
      Edinburgh
      Ratings:
      +765
      Double awesome. I think by the time my diesel falls apart or the government makes it too expensive to drive, the next car will have to be a leccy one.
       
    5. youngsyp

      youngsyp
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 5, 2006
      Messages:
      6,234
      Products Owned:
      5
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      136
      Location:
      Silverstone
      Ratings:
      +1,529
      Whilst this is another step in the right direction, an EV with decent range will still take an age to fully charge from these charge points.
      We have a 7kW charge point on the house and it will take 6 hours or so to fully charge our Model S (60), with 30 miles or so left in the 'tank'. Or around 21kW per hour IIRC.

      That said, we might not use our EV as others do, where we always look to top right up if we're using a public charge point. We only use free one's currently too though.

      Paul
       
    6. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      Let's say it's 15p a kilowatt, if you are there for 30 minutes on a free 7kW point that's about 50p worth of free electricity? Would it be worth bothering? :confused:
       
    7. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      I think 7kw posts are a bit of a waste at places you are not staying for a fair few hours

      Most EVs do about 4miles per KWh. So 30 mins will give you about 3.5kwh (14 miles added range)

      Stick in a 50 or 100kwh rapid then it’s a useful amount of charge

      7kwh is for overnight charging at home etc

      It’s a waste of time for most on short stops
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Useful Useful x 1
      • List
    8. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      Handy if you are running out close to home and the charger is 10 miles from home on your route there. But otherwise, I can't see the point. The first mobile charge we tried was a 3kW for 20 minutes and it didn't even register. 3 and 7's are fine for hotels, amusement parks or a work place, but otherwise?
       
    9. neilball

      neilball
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 7, 2005
      Messages:
      2,890
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      133
      Location:
      Scottish Borders
      Ratings:
      +629
      If your EV can charge at 7kW then it’s useful to have, adding 20-30 mile range in an hour. It’s not as very useful for slow charging EVs/PHEVs though unless they are going to be connected for 2-4 hours.
       
      Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
    10. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      Regrettably we only went for the 3kW onboard, so slow charging while we shop for 20 minutes is a complete waste of effort.
       
    11. EarthRod

      EarthRod
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2008
      Messages:
      17,313
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      England
      Ratings:
      +7,369
      That is the problem with being on the cutting edge of a new technology.

      Will you shortly be trading in your EV first version with a new version Nissan Leaf or even a Hyundai EV?
       
    12. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      I plugged the Kona in at the 3kw post at Thorpe park a few weeks ago as we were there for 10 hours. I arrived with 5% battery left and the car reported it was charging at 2.7kwh and with charging losses would not complete filling the battery for 30 hours.
       
    13. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      Not sure yet. It's a perfect car for a local runabout. Which is what we bought it for. I salute those that can go hundreds of miles by point to point dipping into chargers, but it's not for us.
      But we have the massive oil burner if we need to get more than 50 miles from home and back :)
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • List
    14. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      I know how you feel we used to do the 280 mile return to London 3 days a week in the 19kwh BMW i3. 4 stops and snot icicles soon takes the fun out of it. Some people love it and enjoy the charge stops for a natter with people. But it wears thin quickly when you do it a lot.
       
    15. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      It is annoying when we do a 150 mile round trip in the oil burner that costs best part of £50, when we could do it for little or nothing in the EV, so long as we didn't mind the trip taking 8 hours longer ;)
       
    16. EarthRod

      EarthRod
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2008
      Messages:
      17,313
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      England
      Ratings:
      +7,369
      I've finally decided not to go EV yet, keep postponing the decision but now will be going for one these 3 cylinder 1000cc petrol town cars - looking at the Kia Picanto.

      Still keeping a close eye on EV cars though and very interested in the development and improvements taking place.

      The big sticking point though is the cost of an EV. For example a brand new Kia Picanto 3 costs about £12,000 with 7-year guarantee.

      So, not yet.
       
    17. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      If you are a lowish mileage driver the figures are probably stacked in favour of the small ICE and I would agree

      There is a lot of spreadsheet work needed to work out the breakeven points and what is financially most viable. The Govt seems to think everyone should go EV to "Save the Planet", but lets be honest unless it works out viable to people financially then there is no incentive to do it..

      If you travel into Central London regularly so dont pay the £11.50 a day congestion charge or the £7.50 an hour to park in a P&D bay, those are both big incentives. but meaningless to 99.5% of the population

      Very Rough Fag Packet Maffs,
      EV Costs about 2p a mile in fuel
      Small Petrol Hatchback at 50mpg Costs about 12p a mile in fuel

      At 10k a year the saving is only about £1000 + A Bit of saving in servicing and maybe VED

      For me at those costings there would be no incentive to swap

      Once you get up to the 30k plus a year drivers and central London use the figures swing dramatically, and I see a lot of companies looking at fleets of the new 300mile range cars for reps. This is where the real pollution saving will come at the moment not switching a few low mileage local drivers
       
      • Thanks Thanks x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Useful Useful x 1
      • List
    18. ashenfie

      ashenfie
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 31, 2008
      Messages:
      1,777
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Northampton
      Ratings:
      +500
      Well I think I get my diesel cars boot loaded up with cheap batteries and charge them, to run the house light with if it’s free!
       
    19. EarthRod

      EarthRod
      Distinguished Member

      Joined:
      Jul 15, 2008
      Messages:
      17,313
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      England
      Ratings:
      +7,369
      Good post - informative. Thanks.

      I have done some fairly careful analysis and reached the conclusion EVs are not (yet) the one to go for.

      My usage is medium to small trips in and around Northampton with the occasional nonstop trip to York and back again after a few days. Also holidays on the coast.

      So a new Hyundai Kona would be great and I would love to own one. However:

      a) I do less than 10K miles per year, about 7K on average - sometimes more.
      b) Purchase price of an EV in comparison with an ICE is not favourable.
      c) I tend to own a car for about 8 - 10 years before replacing. Can an EV battery pack maintain its charge after 8 years of use? An unknown.
      d) Depreciation of an EV over (say) 8 years and it's trade-in value for a new one is unknown. I know my 10 year-old car I can trade-in for £2,300 and it cost me £9,700 brand new.

      The one major advantage of owning an EV is the low cost of 'fuel' compared to an ICE car. Currently that is a huge saving, but will it last?
       
    20. LV426

      LV426
      Administrator Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jul 14, 2000
      Messages:
      13,565
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Somewhere in South Yorkshire
      Ratings:
      +6,083
      As regards (c) Hyundai warrant the battery for 8 years/100k miles.
      As regards "one major advantage" .... I'd suggest you try driving one. You may find another. It may even be sufficient to make the other valid points you raise insignificant.
      As regards future fuel cost - irrespective of what may unfold at the roadside and elsewhere, I don't forsee any simple way in which we may be surcharged for charging at home (vs. normal unit costs of electricity for normal domestic purposes - whatever that may be).
       
    21. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548

      Just to add the battery warranty on the Hyundai is 8 years or 125k miles. And that is guaranteed at 70% so if it drops below 70% it would be replaced or repaired 70% is approx 200 miles range (on the 64kwh battery) so even if it fell to this level after 8 years it would still have more range than a band new 40kwh version

      Totally agree on charging costs. Home charging will remain cheap at whatever kWh rate you pay for home charging. Charging away from home on rapid charges seems to be settling at about 30 to 35p a kWh at the moment so a premium of between 3 and 5 times the home rate. I don’t mind this premium as it keeps the rapid chargers for when needed rather than being clogged up with local minicabs etc after a free charge

      With an end of life battery pack still having a highish value in second life use (home storage etc etc) there will always be more residual value in an old EV than an old conventional vehicle as well

      As for trade in values expect those to fall rapidly on ICE over the 8 to 10 years you mention as the supply of used EVs increases and savvy used buyers start Tovar’s see that spending a bit more on a usd EV reaps benefits on running costs. This is the snowball that could kill used ICE values over that timescale
       
      Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    22. scarty16

      scarty16
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jul 1, 2003
      Messages:
      1,471
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      86
      Ratings:
      +344
      LeAnne Rimes once said you can't fight the moonlight, and in the current climate you can't fight the inexorable rise of EV and hybrids.

      Engage SMUG Mode.
       
    23. Stuart Wright

      Stuart Wright
      AVForums Founder Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 24, 2000
      Messages:
      14,735
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      2
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Birmingham, UK
      Ratings:
      +10,623
      Agree with others here. Public 7kw chargers are a waste of time and I've fed this back to Pod Point in a survey.
      Let's assume the 64kw Hyundai Kona is the new benchmark. 300 miles range.
      Parked at a Tesco on a 50kw charger, it's still going to take an hour or more to charge it up from 20%.
       
    24. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      Another point, if someone is clogging up a bay slowly trickle charging for free, they may well be blocking access to the fast chargers to other users.
       
    25. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548

      Stuart the Kona is rated at 1hr 15 from 0-80% on a 50kwh charger and 45mins on a 100kwh

      As you in reality never really get there wth 0%. We are finding we get the following averages

      From 25% this morning added 39kwh before it started to taper off


      96ED98C0-CECB-41F4-8456-DCE5B7B9D259.jpeg

      B1747D4C-DBC3-43A5-BCEF-D1FFEB2481DB.png
       
    26. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      The Kona has the following charging curve

      On a 50kwh rapid
      0-20%. Max 43kwh
      20-50% max 46kwh
      50-73% max 49kwh
      74-92% max 25kwh
      93-98% max 14kwh
      98-100% max 7kwh

      On a 100kwh rapid the 0-73% figures rise up to max of 78kwh
       
    27. Stuart Wright

      Stuart Wright
      AVForums Founder Staff Member

      Joined:
      Jan 24, 2000
      Messages:
      14,735
      Products Owned:
      7
      Products Wanted:
      2
      Trophy Points:
      167
      Location:
      Birmingham, UK
      Ratings:
      +10,623
      @PRESSTOG thanks for the information.
      So it is about an hour from something like 20% to 80%. The point being you're still waiting a while even on a 50kw rapid.
      If you've owned and electric car before, is your range anxiety different with such huge range?
      I'm thinking of changing from the Ioniq to the Kona for the range.
       
    28. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      This is my 4th EV

      1st bmw i3 19kwh
      2nd bmw i3 Rex
      3rd Zoe 41kwh

      Now Kona. I average just about 50k miles a year

      The i3 was huge range anxiety and almost living on chargers ( yes I did 50k miles a year in a 19kwh i3)

      The Zoe was a whole new ball game averaging 180 miles a charge range anxiety went out the window

      The Kona has changed things again
      1. I have speeded up again ( I had changed my driving style in the other EVs to be effiecient so stuck to 56-60 on motorways). The Kona makes very little difference am mainly back to 65-70 and still getting 270 miles on a charge

      2. I have the heat/ac left on all the time now. No juggling heating when charge gets low

      3. My home charging costs have gone through the floor, each time I got a bigger battery I spend less charging at home. I now rarely plug in at home unless I know it’s a 300plus mile day the next day, luckily have a few free rapids close so I tend to use them

      Kona is 10 weeks old now and just hit 11k miles. And my total charging cost has been £9

      But the main thing that destroys range anxiety is knowing when the car bings and the low fuel light comes on at 10% battery left. The car still has 30 miles range in it so even if the 2 or 3 nearest chargers are bust you still have plenty of range to find another

      I do think it’s overpriced. But also the best value out there I know that sounds odd. It feels like a £25k car the way it’s built and equipped. Not a £35k car. But with the range it has nothing under £60k currently can come anywhere near it


      Yes it’s just about an hour 20-80%. But it’s adding 200 miles range in that hour. So a lot of the time 30 mins and 100 miles would be just fine. Unlike the smaller batter cars where you have to sit there after the charge speed has tapered off just to squeeze in as many miles as you can

      So the best way to drive the Kona seems to be quicker as it works out quicker to driver faster and charge a bit than to crawl along to eat out battery life

      I still think the ioniq is the better car, and if they put even a 50kwh or the 64kwh battery in that it will be insanely good. (The ioniq would have been my choice if the battery had been bigger) more car less Tonka toy
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Useful Useful x 2
      • List
      Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
    29. IronGiant

      IronGiant
      Moderator

      Joined:
      Jun 7, 2003
      Messages:
      63,979
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      .
      Ratings:
      +43,275
      You are allowed to use the Tesla word :D
       
    30. PRESSTOG

      PRESSTOG
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      May 8, 2006
      Messages:
      2,117
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Location:
      Sutton in Ashfield
      Ratings:
      +548
      Actually I was thinking ipace. But does that even compare with less range out of a 90kwh battery how did they make the effiecient so bad

      I think Tesla have a fantastic charging network but am not afan of the cars, spending a lot of time in central London they are too much of a barge.

      Hopefully as the uk rapid network improves that advance Tesla has with its supercharger network will be reduced
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice