1x larger sub vs 2x smaller subs, Upgrading my subs

Exeon

Standard Member
I've been researching and posting quite a bit for the past week or so.
After carefull deliberation I'm down to 2 choice, but first some context (since most of you ask these relevant questions)
-Usage: 70% Movies / 30% Music which is why i'd like to opt for a hybrid subwoofer that can have it's ports sealed.
- Room size: Living room thats 16,5 x 30 feet with a 8,3 feet ceiling, should be between 4500 and 5000 cubic feet, floors are wooden.
- Room layout: https://imgur.com/a/JtcHnPU Note, on the left bottom there isn't a door, so the room cannot be sealed
- Budget: 1500€ with a hard limit on 2000€, at that point it isn't about having the money or not, but a principle thing.

- It's not possible to add a second sub later, it's either 2 smaller ones or 1 big one...or so my wife says.
- It's unlikely that I'll get the "best most optimal" place for the sub, most likely my wife will banish the sub to right side of the room, though in time this may be more flexible.
I currently have 2xASW610's (These are sealed subs, 200W RMS and don't go below 27hz) so whatever I pick will have a drastic improvement, I am however aware with my budget there isn't a sub that can fill the gigantic room.
I've checked out about every brand available, and sadly most american brands are very inflated in price, here in the EU so I'm down to these 2 options, the first being the best valued 12" subs I could find.

- 2x XTZ 12.17 EDGE for 1350€ (includes VAT and shipping)
Pros:
Link to the site: SUB 12.17 EDGE
In comparisons I see people putting this sub somewhere between the SvS SB 2000 and PB 2000, which I guess is normal for a hybrid Sub.
My second option is from Arendal, being a 13.8" sub, and going much deeper than the XTZ:
-1x Arendal 1723 V1 for 1699€
Link to the site: 1723 Subwoofer 1V
I've seen a review placing this one above the SvS SB-4000 for comparison.

Although my head says to go for the best value (which would be the dual XTZ's) I'm leaning towards the Arendal, it's a beast of a sub that goes much deeper, has app control(beta) much more customization options and easier to use customization.
PS. It's not possible to get 2 smaller arendal subs, as this would be well above my price range, and their entry level subs are lacking functionality, in which case i'd prefer the value option.

Sorry for the wall of text, appreciate all the help.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I had a quick look putting your room dimensions to REWs room sim program and the subs in front corners, MLP from front wall 4m. The middle spot in couch looks bad, listeners should be then sitting either side of the couch ends more than centre or there will be big null around 55hz. Placing the dual XTZs so that one is at front corner and other is diagonally opposite rear corner gives best response . With one sub on the right corner or 25% wall width right side it looks quite roller coaster and listeners should be more on the left side if looking to get best response. That is if we were to trust what the simulation shows.

I think you should have a talk with wife first where you can really put the sub(s). Do a cardboard mock up if required to show the size so it won´t come suprise. I remember one member already had to return 1961 1V cause it was too large for he`s wife. Youtube has video for 1723 1V maybe it gives some idea also for your wife. XTZs would be quite easy to sell her as they are so compact.

I wouldn`t worry too much about the XTZs not going deep enough. They have decent output down to 20hz still and you would have two subs. The performance of 12.17 Edge should be close to Cinema 1x12 which is THX Ultra rated so they aren´t slouches.

There is third option at 2000€ for a two Monoprice 12 THX subs from EU warehouse! They are quite large though so i`m not sure would wife agree on two at front wall. All Monolith THX subwoofers can be driven as sealed too. This will have noticeable performance edge over the smaller XTZ in the deep bass region due to larger cabinet.







There is also the massive 15" model if you go with one large or the new 13" model which may be more acceptable height wise although it`s very deep. I think the new 13" model is little bit ahead of the "old" 15" model performance wise. Priced same. HDF cabinets, 5year amp warranty, sound quality is top if you read AVSF comparisons to any other brand in the market.



 

Exeon

Standard Member
I think you should have a talk with wife first where you can really put the sub(s). Do a cardboard mock up if required to show the size so it won´t come suprise. I remember one member already had to return 1961 1V cause it was too large for he`s wife. Youtube has video for 1723 1V maybe it gives some idea also for your wife. XTZs would be quite easy to sell her as they are so compact.

There is third option at 2000€ for a two Monoprice 12 THX subs from EU warehouse! They are quite large though so i`m not sure would wife agree on two at front wall. All Monolith THX subwoofers can be driven as sealed too. This will have noticeable performance edge over the smaller XTZ in the deep bass region due to larger cabinet.

There is also the massive 15" model if you go with one large or the new 13" model which may be more acceptable height wise although it`s very deep. I think the new 13" model is little bit ahead of the "old" 15" model performance wise. Priced same. HDF cabinets, 5year amp warranty, sound quality is top if you read AVSF comparisons to any other brand in the market.
I've had several talks with the wife about it.
Setting a sub at the back of the room is a no go, on the right back corner I have no power outlets and extension cables would have to run very far to reach there.
On the left back position I basically have no room, as there are radiators there that can mess with the sub.

"Maybe" I can some day convince her to set one up next to the couch, as we've already ordered different ones, which will likely mess with the room.

If I get 1 bigger sub however, it won't fit on the left side, basically it would either be too close to the tower speaker, or to the radiator on the left front side of the room, and since our TV is wall mounted, there isn't a way to move things around too much.

So if it's 1 larger sub, it would have to go somewhere on the right side of the wall, potentionally I could face it diagonally so the sound would go from the right side corner to the left side corner of the room, or alternativly next to the couch (on the right side most likely) but this would also mean a 7.5 meter subwoofer cable, which I don't think will help performance.

This would be the likely "future" layout:


This would mean one of the current subs would probably get blocked to a degree, and it's the "main" sub according to your simulation

As far as the monolith's go, I did check out the Monolith 12" but found that their value compared to the XTZ's isn't as good, they should perform better in the deeper end, but at a 33% higher cost per unit I don't think it's going to be worth it for me.

However the Monolith 15" I haven't looked at yet, and their specs are quite amazing, it is however quite a bit larger so I'm not sure I can sell that my wife.
I will look up the reviews and consider it.
 
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swiftpete

Distinguished Member
Best bet is get one big sub now then add another big sub later. Tell the wife she can put a plant on it or something.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Multiple subs better than single sub every single day of the week. Factor in you need a device to time align them (miniDSP2x4HD + UMIK).

I'd either buy:

2x Mono 15s at discount/clearance
1x Mono 13 knowing you can easily buy a second down the line and upgrade

OR 2x smaller subs

If you know you can budget and buy a second BIG sub (e.g. mono 13) down the line, then sure. do it.

If you actually think 'you know what, the most I will ever spend on subs is £1k', then just stick to that budget.


A lot of this game is knowing how much you are willing to spend before it becomes too much and balancing that bduget with all ur components. this is all dangerous terrirtory. before u know it u can have spend £3k on ur subs but the rest of ur system sucks or is due an upgrade.. which isnt very smart.



FYI your room is much much bigger than 95% of users here. I think you need (at a minimum) dual ported big subwoofers. Given any budget constraints, your best bet is Mono 15s for £/subwoofer output. They are going at decent prices and they are the best £/output you have. You need vented, you need big to hit reference and maybe over as your room is massive.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
In terms of living with big subs.. u learn to live with them. they're not THAT big or obtrusive if u put them on their side as they just look like a TV cabinet. on their legs tall they use up less floor space but look very intimidating visually. u have loads of paces to put them.. they can even just look like a side table due to how tall they are.

for me with ur room size, ur in a buy-once, cry-once situation. just go for the biggest best deal you can get (which is clearance mono 15s) and move on knowing u have ticked the box as best u can to attain reference sub output. your room size i repeat is big, and no doubt you need as much output as possible. The wife will learn to deal with it.

if u buy too small. ur gonna feel short changed one day realising ur room simply enough is not getting pressurised to anywhere near reference.
if u go single sub and cant afford a second one, u will have so many nullls when u do measure probably.
 

Exeon

Standard Member
Multiple subs better than single sub every single day of the week. Factor in you need a device to time align them (miniDSP2x4HD + UMIK).

I'd either buy:

2x Mono 15s at discount/clearance
1x Mono 13 knowing you can easily buy a second down the line and upgrade

OR 2x smaller subs

If you know you can budget and buy a second BIG sub (e.g. mono 13) down the line, then sure. do it.

FYI your room is much much bigger than 95% of users here. I think you need (at a minimum) dual ported big subwoofers. Given any budget constraints, your best bet is Mono 15s for £/subwoofer output. They are going at decent prices and they are the best £/output you have. You need vented, you need big to hit reference and maybe over as your room is massive.

Yea I do believe dual 12" subs are going to be better with proper setup than any 15" on the market.
I can't however set them up properly, ideally I'd have on at the back of my room, but running a +10m subwoofer cable isn't easy, and I've asked this multiple times, but it's a hard no.

Regardless there isn't any dual 12" setup that will fill this huge space, and with my couches changing it'll be suboptimal or even detrimental to run dual subs, as one sub will be largely blocked from 2 sides.

I've decided to get a big sub instead, I've managed to convince my wife to allow me to put it diagonally on the right top side of the room, and it would face the left bottom side of the room, this is probably the best position possible for the sub to be in.

Maybe one day I'll get a second one, but I doubt that's physically possible.
Still a single 15" will blow up my current setup (2xASW610) any day.

I'm still debating between the monolith and the arendal, the monolith wins on sheer power, but not in function, size or customer service/warranty.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I've had several talks with the wife about it.
Setting a sub at the back of the room is a no go, on the right back corner I have no power outlets and extension cables would have to run very far to reach there.
On the left back position I basically have no room, as there are radiators there that can mess with the sub.

"Maybe" I can some day convince her to set one up next to the couch, as we've already ordered different ones, which will likely mess with the room.

If I get 1 bigger sub however, it won't fit on the left side, basically it would either be too close to the tower speaker, or to the radiator on the left front side of the room, and since our TV is wall mounted, there isn't a way to move things around too much.

So if it's 1 larger sub, it would have to go somewhere on the right side of the wall, potentionally I could face it diagonally so the sound would go from the right side corner to the left side corner of the room, or alternativly next to the couch (on the right side most likely) but this would also mean a 7.5 meter subwoofer cable, which I don't think will help performance.

This would be the likely "future" layout:


This would mean one of the current subs would probably get blocked to a degree, and it's the "main" sub according to your simulation

As far as the monolith's go, I did check out the Monolith 12" but found that their value compared to the XTZ's isn't as good, they should perform better in the deeper end, but at a 33% higher cost per unit I don't think it's going to be worth it for me.

However the Monolith 15" I haven't looked at yet, and their specs are quite amazing, it is however quite a bit larger so I'm not sure I can sell that my wife.
I will look up the reviews and consider it.


Monoprices are tough to sell wife for typical living room due to being more of "ugly big black boxes". I don´t think you will get green lighted for the 13" and 15" models. The 13" is newer model and is slightly better due to higher power amplification and likely quite beefy driver. The cabinet is also lower so make sure you compare dimensions.

If you buy Arendal 1723 1V and add 2nd as other side of couch as side table. I can´t see that happening either cause it`s huge and the wires would be visible when coming in to room and looking at the couch. The cable length isn´t issue.

Two XTZs at front just doesn´t give you the best response if you sit centre mostly. If wife accepts the Monoprices then you should wait a deal as there is codes often going for them. Week ago there was -14% discount.

I would consider the XTZ 1x12 Cinema Edge too if you choose XTZ. There is bundle deal when you buy two or more. Two would cost 791,35€/each. Better cabinet construction with nicer look, more beefier driver, better sloth port vs. 12.17 Edge which you would run in 1port mode for movies = more likely to give port chuffing if you push them harder.

 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yea I do believe dual 12" subs are going to be better with proper setup than any 15" on the market.
I can't however set them up properly, ideally I'd have on at the back of my room, but running a +10m subwoofer cable isn't easy, and I've asked this multiple times, but it's a hard no.

Regardless there isn't any dual 12" setup that will fill this huge space, and with my couches changing it'll be suboptimal or even detrimental to run dual subs, as one sub will be largely blocked from 2 sides.

I've decided to get a big sub instead, I've managed to convice my wife to allow me to put it diagonally on the right top side of the room, and it would face the left bottom side of the room, this is probably the best position possible for the sub to be in.

Maybe one day I'll get a second one, but I doubt that's physically possible.
Still a single 15" will blow up my current setup (2xASW610) any day.

I'm still debating between the monolith and the arendal, the monolith wins on sheer power, but not in function, size or customer service/warranty.


For your size room, you'll need 2x 2V for optimal output at reference so the price difference is £2500 (2x15'') vs £4800 (2x2V)

Function = app? You should not be using the app IMO. Buy a UMIK and MiniDSP2x4HD and time align them properly at the very least and adjust gain for the best FR. But if you want an app, Arendal are great.

Fit and finish, Arendal are far superior.

Output wise, well Monolith 15s offer double the output for the same price generally.

Customer service - I'm not sure. I think its a mixed bag. I've had so-so experience from Arendal. I had the run-around for months, customers and baliff threats because of Arendal not submitting the proper paperwork and all I got for ages was pointless reassurances and no closure on the issues. Visit Arendal thread, a few people have. No discount available too.

Monoprice you'll go through a dealer if you buy from American Audio here who sorted me out with a discount as a forum member, and a few other helpful things Arendal didn't. The warranty periods are pretty similar. 5 year warranty and unike Arendals (please correct me if wrong) Arendal only cover the electronics for a very short time period.

If you're going Arendal, please take into account the space you need for the side drivers which make wiring a bit tight and difficult.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Monoprices are tough to sell wife for typical living room due to being more of "ugly big black boxes". I don´t think you will get green lighted for the 13" and 15" models. The 13" is newer model and is slightly better due to higher power amplification and likely quite beefy driver. The cabinet is also lower so make sure you compare dimensions.

If you buy Arendal 1723 1V and add 2nd as other side of couch as side table. I can´t see that happening either cause it`s huge and the wires would be visible when coming in to room and looking at the couch. The cable length isn´t issue.

Two XTZs at front just doesn´t give you the best response if you sit centre mostly. If wife accepts the Monoprices then you should wait a deal as there is codes often going for them. Week ago there was -14% discount.

I would consider the XTZ 1x12 Cinema Edge too if you choose XTZ. There is bundle deal when you buy two or more. Two would cost 791,35€/each. Better cabinet construction with nicer look, more beefier driver, better sloth port vs. 12.17 Edge which you would run in 1port mode for movies = more likely to give port chuffing if you push them harder.



His room is massive. The Monolith 15s really aren't going to look that big in there, especially if they're on their feet IMO.

I understand in the standard living room but his room is really reasonably sized. They can stuff them into a few corners. They don't even need to be close to the theatre space dependant on room FR readings and where is the best position.


If OP can stretch to 2Vs, they're an option but stuffing them in corners is really hard because of the side driver design and you can't lay them on their side (cos of the drivers).

I understand if this was in a standard sized UK lounge but he has a big expansive space. IMO needs a big woofer to go with it.



Arendals can't be used as side table. They'll scratch so easily as the finish on the top of it is really really prone to scracthes if used for putting things on them. The 15s can be because the finish is much less glossy so you can't notice scratches.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member

Exeon

Standard Member
Monoprices are tough to sell wife for typical living room due to being more of "ugly big black boxes". I don´t think you will get green lighted for the 13" and 15" models. The 13" is newer model and is slightly better due to higher power amplification and likely quite beefy driver. The cabinet is also lower so make sure you compare dimensions.

If you buy Arendal 1723 1V and add 2nd as other side of couch as side table. I can´t see that happening either cause it`s huge and the wires would be visible when coming in to room and looking at the couch. The cable length isn´t issue.

If wife accepts the Monoprices then you should wait a deal as there is codes often going for them. Week ago there was -14% discount.

I've actually "showed" her with a box how big the sub would be in that corner, it doesn't bother her from her usual seating position, but it does from where the guests would sit, but she can live with it.

The "big black box" aspect is an issue, she mentioned I'm not allowed to get any subwoofer unless I change their color to a wood walnut color (similar to my current speakers), so most likely i'd have to veneer that huge box.....not something I look forward to, but I guess it's compromizing on both sides.

Behind the couch there is a dresser which is the same lenght as the couch, next to that, the dining table with a rug.

Are there discounts on the EU site? Or is this just US?

Output wise, well Monolith 15s offer double the output for the same price generally.

Is the difference that much? I compared the CES readings, the 15" has somewhere between 3-6db gain on most frecuencies, while the arendal is louder below 16hz, is that such a massive difference?

5 year warranty and unike Arendals (please correct me if wrong) Arendal only cover the electronics for a very short time period.
Warranty = 5years for electronics on XTZ, Arendal, SVS, Monoprice THX.

Does monoprice really offer 5 years in the EU? There is no mention of this anywhere on their site, they do mention that monoprice products get 3 years, and select products get 5 years.
I have contacted them about this, but I doubt I'll get a response in the weekend.

The Arendal 1723 series get 10 years warranty, with 5 years on electronics, which I guess is just 5 years, besides electronics what else can really go wrong?

Function = app? You should not be using the app IMO. Buy a UMIK and MiniDSP2x4HD and time align them properly at the very least and adjust gain for the best FR. But if you want an app, Arendal are great.
With function I mean App, in built "smart" PEQ, extra connectivity, different profiles for each connection, and dual memory configuration.
Not saying any of this should win over raw performance, but that boils down to how much difference in performance.

Arendals can't be used as side table. They'll scratch so easily as the finish on the top of it is really really prone to scracthes if used for putting things on them. The 15s can be because the finish is much less glossy so you can't notice scratches.
You can really use the Monolith 15" as a table? I always thought that was a joke....
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
His room is massive. The Monolith 15s really aren't going to look that big in there, especially if they're on their feet IMO.

I understand in the standard living room but his room is really reasonably sized. They can stuff them into a few corners. They don't even need to be close to the theatre space dependant on room FR readings and where is the best position.


If OP can stretch to 2Vs, they're an option but stuffing them in corners is really hard because of the side driver design and you can't lay them on their side (cos of the drivers).

I understand if this was in a standard sized UK lounge but he has a big expansive space. IMO needs a big woofer to go with it.



Arendals can't be used as side table. They'll scratch so easily as the finish on the top of it is really really prone to scracthes if used for putting things on them. The 15s can be because the finish is much less glossy so you can't notice scratches.

Yeah 4500-5000cuft. I`m all for going big, but it doesn´t sound like he can. :( One 1723 2V is suited for 5000cuft room by Audioholics room rating Extreme. However i`m not sure does Exeon even listen at ref volume, most people don´t.

The 1x12 Cinema Edge meets and passes THX Ultra rating as the new model comes with 700w amps over the earlier 500w Claridy ones (similar what Monoprice uses in 12" model). Two of them should give quite good performance especially if they are placed fairly close each other which i assume Exeon has to do as he very limited where the subs can go. Not most ideal but it is what it is.

2x XTZ Cinema Edge - 1583€, shipping?

1x Arendal 1723 1V - 1699€


Arendal has edge below 20hz if that matters, probably not for most folks without dedicated rooms. Otherwise i see the two XTZ having edge in performance and if there is chance to place them optimally then he gets better room response aswell.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yeah 4500-5000cuft. I`m all for going big, but it doesn´t sound like he can. :( One 1723 2V is suited for 5000cuft room by Audioholics room rating Extreme. However i`m not sure does Exeon even listen at ref volume, most people don´t.

The 1x12 Cinema Edge meets and passes THX Ultra rating as the new model comes with 700w amps over the earlier 500w Claridy ones (similar what Monoprice uses in 12" model). Two of them should give quite good performance especially if they are placed fairly close each other which i assume Exeon has to do as he very limited where the subs can go. Not most ideal but it is what it is.

2x XTZ Cinema Edge - 1583€, shipping?

1x Arendal 1723 1V - 1699€


Arendal has edge below 20hz if that matters, probably not for most folks without dedicated rooms. Otherwise i see the two XTZ having edge in performance and if there is chance to place them optimally then he gets better room response aswell.
As you know Gasp, one single subwoofer in a massive room is never a good idea with all the nulls he'll encounter.

I'd never taken one Arendal over 2 subs from another decent brand. There is nothing magical about the Arendals to make them fight null points and we alll know a signifcant amount of the cost is put towards the looks, fit, finish and app (which a lot of people won't use or would be better off learning how to use a miniDSP).
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I've actually "showed" her with a box how big the sub would be in that corner, it doesn't bother her from her usual seating position, but it does from where the guests would sit, but she can live with it.

The "big black box" aspect is an issue, she mentioned I'm not allowed to get any subwoofer unless I change their color to a wood walnut color (similar to my current speakers), so most likely i'd have to veneer that huge box.....not something I look forward to, but I guess it's compromizing on both sides.

Behind the couch there is a dresser which is the same lenght as the couch, next to that, the dining table with a rug.

Are there discounts on the EU site? Or is this just US?



Is the difference that much? I compared the CES readings, the 15" has somewhere between 3-6db gain on most frecuencies, while the arendal is louder below 16hz, is that such a massive difference?




Does monoprice really offer 5 years in the EU? There is no mention of this anywhere on their site, they do mention that monoprice products get 3 years, and select products get 5 years.
I have contacted them about this, but I doubt I'll get a response in the weekend.

The Arendal 1723 series get 10 years warranty, with 5 years on electronics, which I guess is just 5 years, besides electronics what else can really go wrong?


With function I mean App, in built "smart" PEQ, extra connectivity, different profiles for each connection, and dual memory configuration.
Not saying any of this should win over raw performance, but that boils down to how much difference in performance.


You can really use the Monolith 15" as a table? I always thought that was a joke....

Veneering is an excellent idea. The Monolith would be easy to do that too. I'm planning to spray mine and coat them with velvet. As I said before, your room is big, the Monoliths aren't THAT big. Most people that cry about the size are packing them into a small room. Yours is big a room.

Yes, American Audio's site has 5 years warranty. Just buy locally from them and negotiate a deal. Better to have manufacturer warranty and dealer warranty 100%.

You need a miniDSP2x4HD if going dual subs, not the app support from Arendal. If you aren't aware of this, I suggest you do more reading before making a very expensive purchase as its best to understand the devices first. You need to time align the subs etc.

1xMonolith 15 = 1x2V in output terms approximately. However for the price one ONE 2V, you can get nearly TWO 15s, so you get double the output. Your room will need TWO subwoofers most likely to cover the NULLS you'll get. Nulls are MASSIVE dips in your frequency response. The aim is to have a smooth frequency response without nulls. Nulls are created by the position of the sub and the position of the listening spot. Each different position in your room has different nulls so by getting multiple subs, you can eliminate the nulls as each one can compensate for the other.

You can use any big subwoofer as a table. I use my BK Mono+ as a side table. The height might be an issue though.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
As you know Gasp, one single subwoofer in a massive room is never a good idea with all the nulls he'll encounter.

I'd never taken one Arendal over 2 subs from another decent brand. There is nothing magical about the Arendals to make them fight null points and we alll know a signifcant amount of the cost is put towards the looks, fit, finish and app (which a lot of people won't use or would be better off learning how to use a miniDSP).

Yeah, but he won´t benefit much for the two either if they are placed where wife says they go (look best). There was big hole in the 55hz region with two subs at front wall (corners or 25% width) if listener at middle. That was with room sim, MLP at 4m etc. If both listeners laying at each of the couch then should be better what i remember. And two subs on same wall fairly close each other should have plenty of headroom for the normal listener. I don`t put you in the normal category as you listen so loud always! :D
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Exeon lives in Belgium, i wonder what is the shipping cost from Monoprice EU vs. American Audio (UK)?
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yeah, but he won´t benefit much for the two either if they are placed where wife says they go (look best). There was big hole in the 55hz region with two subs at front wall (corners or 25% width) if listener at middle. That was with room sim, MLP at 4m etc. If both listeners laying at each of the couch then should be better what i remember. And two subs on same wall fairly close each other should have plenty of headroom for the normal listener. I don`t put you in the normal category as you listen so loud always! :D


I'd get them in-house, do some measurements and he can be quite inventive where he puts them.

As I said before, he has a big room. There will be other positions to put them, especially if he veneers them as they'll look quite nice once veneered. Even though the wife wants them in specific positions, shoved in a corner in nice veneer, it'll look like a side table.

Volume does not make a difference here. An FR with nulls is an FR with nulls. Multiple subs are better.

Didn't see the Belgium location. Makes sense a bit more compared to average British room sizes now lol.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'd get them in-house, do some measurements and he can be quite inventive where he puts them.

As I said before, he has a big room. There will be other positions to put them, especially if he veneers them as they'll look quite nice once veneered. Even though the wife wants them in specific positions, shoved in a corner in nice veneer, it'll look like a side table.

Volume does not make a difference here. An FR with nulls is an FR with nulls. Multiple subs are better.

Didn't see the Belgium location. Makes sense a bit more compared to average British room sizes now lol.

If the MLP can`t be moved then there is less to play with. Left front and rear right gave him decent response. But he can´t do this. Of course it depends so much where the listeners sit. In living room one could be laying at the end of couch comfortably.

This is with the sub at right side wall where he said it would go, 1meter away from front wall. If the listeners would sit on the couch more to left then much better, but the couch is closer to right wall so not good....

FR.png
 
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Exeon

Standard Member
Yeah 4500-5000cuft. I`m all for going big, but it doesn´t sound like he can. :( One 1723 2V is suited for 5000cuft room by Audioholics room rating Extreme. However i`m not sure does Exeon even listen at ref volume, most people don´t.
I very much doubt We're currently listening to ref volumes, but mainly to avoid distortion.
It's also a living room, I think if I were to put a 1723 2V on reference I'd have to bolt down a couple of things...
You need a miniDSP2x4HD if going dual subs, not the app support from Arendal. If you aren't aware of this, I suggest you do more reading before making a very expensive purchase as its best to understand the devices first. You need to time align the subs etc.
I'll look into this, thanks.

Exeon lives in Belgium, i wonder what is the shipping cost from Monoprice EU vs. American Audio (UK)?
American audio is a no go, I'd have to add potential import costs(due to brexit) and potentially an extra cost due to VAT difference.
Monoprice EU offers free shipping, and a 14 day trial period with free return shipping (which no other manufacturer website offers)
You can use any big subwoofer as a table. I use my BK Mono+ as a side table. The height might be an issue though.
Mentioned this to my wife, now she wants a tall plant on the subwoofer Facepalm
This is with the sub at right side wall where he said it would go, 1meter away from front wall. If the listeners would sit on the couch more to left then much better, but the couch is closer to right wall so not good....
Yea I usually sit on the left side, when we're eating my wife will sit on the right side, but when watching movies we usually are much close together, and she's more likely to sit in the middle with me on the left side.

I've shown the Ardenal to my wife again, and basically it's a no go, she prefers the monolith 15" both from how it looks and how it fits in that corner.

So I guess that's settled, she did like the idea of using it as a coffee table (even considering the hight), so fingers crossed, maybe one day I'll get a second sub from a clearance or something and put it beside the couch, but no guarantees there.

A final question here is which monolith, the 15" or the 13"?

I've heard the 13" is just an overall improvement over the 15" with 2000w RMS making it a more compact 15"
The price is identical, there is a weird warning on the 13" on their website though.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Arent nulls only an issue if they are at the main listen positions, even a single sub positioned correctly can result in minimal nulls where it counts.
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I very much doubt We're currently listening to ref volumes, but mainly to avoid distortion.
It's also a living room, I think if I were to put a 1723 2V on reference I'd have to bolt down a couple of things...

I'll look into this, thanks.


American audio is a no go, I'd have to add potential import costs(due to brexit) and potentially an extra cost due to VAT difference.
Monoprice EU offers free shipping, and a 14 day trial period with free return shipping (which no other manufacturer website offers)

Mentioned this to my wife, now she wants a tall plant on the subwoofer Facepalm

Yea I usually sit on the left side, when we're eating my wife will sit on the right side, but when watching movies we usually are much close together, and she's more likely to sit in the middle with me on the left side.

I've shown the Ardenal to my wife again, and basically it's a no go, she prefers the monolith 15" both from how it looks and how it fits in that corner.

So I guess that's settled, she did like the idea of using it as a coffee table (even considering the hight), so fingers crossed, maybe one day I'll get a second sub from a clearance or something and put it beside the couch, but no guarantees there.

A final question here is which monolith, the 15" or the 13"?

I've heard the 13" is just an overall improvement over the 15" with 2000w RMS making it a more compact 15"
The price is identical, there is a weird warning on the 13" on their website though.

Suprised she picked the Monoprice, but yeah good for you then. Your couch in the picture is more on the right vs. my room sim shot so even if you sit on the left end of it that spot would end up being nearly middle width wise which is poor place to sit as shown. Not sure what you can do if couch isn´t moving and sub goes right about where i put it in the sim. Buying expensive subwoofer and getting that type of response is not ideal as it robs you ton on important range. You could download the Room Eq Wizard program and play with the room sim, but also you can buy USB mic (Umik-1) and measure the real response if you have laptop to use the REW program. If your wife won`t let you move the sub and try few spots (measure) then i`m not sure is this much of help..


The 15" V1 model went 999$ in US and 13 THX 1700$ i think. Anyway there is new V2 model coming soon to EU too. The question is will they discount the V1 then? There is also gloss black finish. I think most folks would pick the newer 13 THX model if price is same, it`s also more rounded and not as tall. For me it looks better, but you might think otherwise.
 

Exeon

Standard Member
Suprised she picked the Monoprice, but yeah good for you then. Your couch in the picture is more on the right vs. my room sim shot so even if you sit on the left end of it that spot would end up being nearly middle width wise which is poor place to sit as shown. Not sure what you can do if couch isn´t moving and sub goes right about where i put it in the sim. Buying expensive subwoofer and getting that type of response is not ideal as it robs you ton on important range.

The 15" V1 model went 999$ in US and 13 THX 1700$ i think. Anyway there is new V2 model coming soon to EU too. The question is will they discount the V1 then? There is also gloss black finish. I think most folks would pick the newer 13 THX model if price is same, it`s also more rounded and not as tall. For me it looks better, but you might think otherwise.

Yea I personally prefer the look of the Ardenal, but she has issue with the driver being on the side and the port being in the back, which also means more distance from the wall and putting it in a weird angle.

She didn't want me to turn the dual subwoofer setup diagonally, they had to be straight front facing, and symetrical.
Initially I had both of them to the back of the wall, but the bass sounded "trapped"
The only other alternative I have for a dual 12" setup is to put them in between the front right and front left towers to the back of the wall.

With this setup they would be 1.5m apart from each other.
But I'm not sure this would be optimal.

I think I have more chances in the future with dual 15"s if she can view one as a coffee table, but I can't be sure that ever happens.

As far as some additional measurements go:
The fireplace is about 30 cm sticking out of the wall (there are parts that are larger but the width is pretty minimal)
The 2 MLP's are 1.6m and 2.1m from the wall.
The wall where the subs are currently located is 4.15m wide, while the rest of the room is 5m wide.
The sub driver and ports will be 0.8m from the wall.

I should be able to turn a single sub setup by a couple of degrees to either side(without the wife noticing) but this does impact anything? I believe it should, but it might be minimal.

I prefer the look of the 13" and so does my wife, but rounded edges won't fit with the rest of the house, also it has more depth so it'll be the 15".
1000$ would be a steal, I might wait for v2 to come out before pulling the trigger.

I really appreciate all of the help, it's been making this process a lot easier.
 

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