18 month old son dilemas. HELP!!

Discussion in 'Parents Forum' started by Sulley75, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. Sulley75

    Sulley75
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    Hi everyone,

    Pleased to see there is a parents forum here, ace.

    We have 2 children - a 7 year old Daughter and an 18 month old son.

    The bedtime routine for both has always been a priority which we have stuck to. Each night, our son gets taken up for a few stories and his milk. Occasionally he will sleep right through and other times he will wake for another bottle. Once asleep he is then put in his cot. The trouble is, about every other night he wakes at 2am and doesn't go back to sleep. We sit with him on our lap in the quiet, dimly lit room and he just sits with his eyes open. As soon as you place him in his cot, he literally screams the house down. We don't let that happen as at that time, its not good for the rest in the house or our neighbours. He just does not want to be left. The other issue then, is that he is tired through the day and wrecks everything and bugs his sister - pulling at her hair, pinching, biting, etc. Soon as you tell him off he just laughs and thinks it a game. We do not wish to resort to smacking. Even now, he is tired but if we put him for a nap now he wont sleep later (he had a nap at 1pm today). He loves his cuddles and needs alot of attention of which he gets.

    I am sure this will pass, but at the moment it just all feels like 1 continuous day for us all. He is amazingly energetic.

    We consider ourselves good parents who beleive in routines - but at the moment we both feel like we are going wrong somewhere!

    Another issue is that help in books is so contradicting. Smack them/dont smack them. Allow them in your bed/don't allow them in your bed.

    Any advice/words of support appreciated, we don't have friends with children! :)
     
  2. BB3Lions

    BB3Lions
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    The joys of parenting..

    Everyone's experience is different so don't stress about it, albeit lack of sleep is detrimental to finding a working resolution.

    My son didn't and doesn't sleep through, he's 3.5 and its still ongoing.

    Try and fail everything you read until you find the answer, dome of the things we did were;

    No sleep during the day
    Sleep during the day
    Rusks in his late milk
    Rice flakes in last bottle.
    Sleeping with us.
    Ignoring him.
    Music playing on repeat all night.
    Better lighting.
    One of us sleeping in his room.
    Temp controlling room to 16 degrees.

    That's all I can think of now, but there's a few weeks worth of stages there.


    BB
     
  3. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    One thing I would say is that I often feel there is too much pressure for parents NOT to take their kids in beside them.
    We've always had the opinion that if it results in everyone sleeping, just blooming do it!
    Many cultures, arguably happier and more family orientated than us, have their kids sleeping with them for years.
    I'm not saying taking him/her through with you will work, I'm just saying that if it does work then why fight against it when other cultures embrace it?
     
  4. BB3Lions

    BB3Lions
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    Agree, my wifes Asian & they sleep with there children until the age where they want there own bed.

    Builds comfort, confidence & bonds as a family unit.

    Too much pressure in the West to kick you baby on its own to build independence.

    Do what's right for you.


    BB.

    I'm sleeping un my sons bed now because of monsters & I'm over tired lol

    Great fun!
     
  5. its_all_Greek

    its_all_Greek
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    Those monsters can be frightening, but i'm sure with your son cuddles that you soon stop being scared of them:devil:

    It does seem most advice you get contradicts others and as has been said theres no hard and fast rules when it comes to parenting.

    I guess we were very fortunate in that both ours have gone through the night from a very young age although we were determined that they had a routine from day one, which included them sleeping in there own rooms, not that this helps you of course. Its just gonna be trial and error i'm afraid until you find what works for you.
     
  6. Jenn

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    The trouble with that is parents are told to keep new babies in their room for the first 6 months and some midwives can be quite authoritative about how you do things.

    My son slept with us until he was 2 years old, had a dummy until he was 2 as well.
    He's well adjusted all the same.
     
  7. Sulley75

    Sulley75
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    Cheers for the advice/information. I think just reading this and knowing we are not alone is some sort of comfort! I have no issue about letting our children into our bed, but the wife would object, so that would be an obstacle!

    See, last night, he went up at 6.45pm, woke at 4, had some milk, then went back off till 7am.

    I think i remember being in with my parents when i was about 4. Hasn't done any harm and like some of you said, i must have needed the confort.

    Cheers again!

    Gaz.
     
  8. Donnacha

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    I agree with this - our (almost) 3 year old jumps into the bed with us during the night if he gets a fright or is not well. It works a treat as he sleeps soundly when he's in our bed and we tend to get more sleep as well. Others frown on it, but you do what works for you, not what works for others !
     
  9. Nabs

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    For your amusement, our daughter can sleep well when she is in our bed she sleeps well provided she has pushed her daddy out of bed!!! as she has no room
     
  10. BB3Lions

    BB3Lions
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    Amen. I can't sleep with my sons feet in my kidneys/face.


    BB
     
  11. shodan

    shodan
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    This is a tough one and doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong. Obviously you just need to figure why he is waking up during that time, and I don't suppose he can tell you why. I'd be tempted to try try him for a couple of weeks with having no naps during the day and make sure he is kept active so he goes to bed physically and mentally knackered. I'd also cut out (or massively down) anything like sweets, biscuits, fizzy drinks, anything that may contain caffiene and be careful what juices he has during the day.

    Apologies if this post is like teaching you to suck eggs, not my intention.


    Just had another thought, you say he is still in a cot, maybe time to change to a bed with a bed guard. Maybe he is just too big for the cot, bashing himself against the sides or too heavy for the cot mattress so its uncomfortable? And also double check the temperature in the room in case he is waking up due to being too hot or cold with blankets or pj's etc.
     
  12. Sulley75

    Sulley75
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    Cheers for your comments. His daytime nap varies from nothing to 30 mins per day. He is also VERY active and always needs to be doing something! He had a few sweets and biscuits over the Christmas period and never has anything other than water.
    I don’t, for one second, think you are teaching me to suck eggs, you are purely offering advice!

    The move to a bed is a good idea, as we regulary hear him knocking against the bars. He also does not sleep under the covers, he never has done. He sleeps with a sleep suit and then a “grow bag”.

    Thank you very much for your comments!
     
  13. BB3Lions

    BB3Lions
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    There's your problem, maybe he doesn't like sleeping in soil?
     
  14. Jenn

    Jenn
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    My son is also quite active and he didn't want to miss anything by having a rest.
    The trouble is when he's tired, he becomes a devil and then finds it hard to sleep a good night.

    When he was younger his routine would have been up at 6:30-7am. Lunch at 12 followed by a nap of at least 2 hours.
    If he didn't sleep for 2 hours, he would have to stay in bed and rest or play with his toys quietly.
    Then in bed at 8:30pm.

    I know a lot of people put their children to bed near 7pm in the UK but that's not the case where I'm from because that's usually dinner time.
    We have an afternoon nap instead.

    I have to say for us it worked well because our son didn't get over-tired.

    Now at 4, he'll still have afternoon naps some days but not everyday. When he looks and acts tired only. I does wonders, and he still sleeps well at night.
     
  15. Solomon Grundy

    Solomon Grundy
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    Please be careful having small kids in bed with you or at least get a super king size so you all fit. My Sister In Law is an intensive care nurse and had to watch a family lose their 18 month old on Christmas morning after they rolled over in bed and starved them of oxygen.
     
  16. BB3Lions

    BB3Lions
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    Anyone see the TV prog last night? Some 100st woman in America was babysitting her nephew, promptly sat/rolled on him & cause she's that obese couldn't get off.

    Scary world.

    I never slept on the same bed until he hit 2, far too paranoid of that exact reason, not including over heating...!!

    BB
     
  17. stoomc

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    #

    Agree, it is NOT a good idea at all... the midwives, health visitors etc. nip your head on this for a reason.
     
  18. Sulley75

    Sulley75
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    Morning all,

    Thanks for your comments. Need to change a few things I think. He is now waking at about 2am for a bottle, he then sits on our lap till he falls back off. Trouble is, half the time as soon as you put him back in his cot he wakes up looking for you and crying.
    Things is, when we put him up, he has his stories and a lullaby cd and his bottle, he then sits on our lap to drift off. Then he is placed in his cot. This can take ages sometimes for him to go off. Wife is at work, so our 7 year old is missing out on time with me then, as when son goes off, daughter is tired and wants bed!

    Last night, took ages and he was still awake, so I put him in his cot, kissed him goodnight and left the room. IMMEDIATE screaming, but after 5 mins he was asleep.
    As much as hearing him scream was HORRID, I wonder if we should now knock all the “cuddling till he nods off” on the head. A good thing I read is that…. “imagine you wake in the night and your pillow is missing. You are not going to settle till you find it, you will look for it.” I think that is exactly happening to us.
    After my wife cuddled him in the chair when he woke last night (for an hour!) he woke straight away. So I laid in beside his cot with a pillow. After 45 mins he was back asleep. Like someone suggested before, we all get sleep then, so I may try that also.
     
  19. Jenn

    Jenn
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    My opinion (and feel free not to agree or follow the advice :) ) is that you should not let your son fall asleep on you or spend as long with him in the room waiting for him to fall asleep.

    From what I read before, the recommended technique is that when a child wakes up and you need to go in their room, you should keep the contact and stimulation to the minimum. So basically don't turn all the lights on, no music, lullabies, don't talk much if you can help it. If you need give your child a cuddle until he stops crying, tell him it's time to sleep now and put him back to bed while he's awake so he falls asleep on his own.
    He might cry for a few minutes but 5 minutes is fine. If you need to go back in to make sure he's ok, again keep things to a minimum and even try not to talk or make too much eye contact.

    Hopefully after a few nights he'll get used to it and you may have an uninterrupted night.

    Like you said, it's waking up in a different place to where he fell asleep that may be unsettling him.
     
  20. kav

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    Great advice. :thumbsup:
     
  21. Fe_man2000

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    I am in the middle of this right now with a 7 month year old and the last week has been very hard but is getting better each day.

    For us the trick is making sure he is happy and familar with his cot and learns to be able to put himself back to sleep when he wakes up in the middle of the night without our help.

    Most important in our "method" was that he was that he fell asleep in the cot - not in our bed or on us. It was very rough on the first few days with much crying as he lay in the cot after the bottle and storys (which was on our bed). Last story was while he was in the cot, with low lights helped. We took it in 20 minutes turns to sit in the room with him but not doing much unless he really got upset. After 3 days of this, things got a lot better and we are 5 days in now and he is rolling over and going back to sleep very well (we have a night vision camera thing so we can see he is ok without getting out of bed)

    When he wakes up in the morning now he is happy and plays with the toys in the cot rather than start crying - basically the cot is now a nice place for him rather than seeming like a punishment.

    Dont get me wrong sitting in a room with your baby crying is very hard and I dont think sleeping in the same room with your child is wrong or bad for the child (same bed is risky maybe), but for us, our bed is just too small for 3 and sometimes a man and his wife need some time alone.

    Also in there is a time when baby is going to sleep in there own bed - I personally think that delaying that is setting yourself up for more pain later on.
     
  22. Ruperts slippers

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    We've had our daughter 9 month old in her own room and cot from 6 weeks,its the only time she setteld ,she slept 8-7am like that for around 8 weeks.
    Then she started teething,crawling and walking and its all gone to pot.

    From around 6 months on she has rarely slept thru and she takes ages to settle,she just doesn't want to go to bed ,she wakes once or twice a night has a feed and drops back off without a fuss to be fair.

    We go into her room pick her up quietly feed her and pop her back down.
    She naps at around 12pm till 130 and 430pm till about 6.Then goes to bed anytime from 830-10pm and sleeps till around 430am feed and wakes up any where from 630-930am...

    I have a 14 yr daughter and she intermitently slept in our bed until she was around 10,i dont mind tbh its the missus who didn't like it...
     
  23. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    Yet loads of other cultures do it without any problems at all.
    Are British people very clumsy sleepers?
    I'm not making light of tragic accidents, but tragic accidents can happen to kids sleeping themselves too.
    Here's a good article giving pros and cons.
    Note it's not all cons....

    http://www.prokerala.com/kids/parenting/baby-co-sleeping.php

    If you're against them sharing a bed with you, I know several parents who used to put mattresses on the floor beside their kids' beds and slept part/all of the night there.
    They're all past this now, which is the part that always makes me smile.
    Whatever method you choose, the kids all end up the same in the long run.:)
    God knows its not too long before you daren't go in their rooms, or they won't allow it...:-(
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  24. Sulley75

    Sulley75
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    Thanks again, some more great help. Well tonight, bath as usual, stories, then bottle on lap. After bottle, kiss and cuddle then in cot awake. 15 or so seconds of crying and that was it! Sound asleep. Also didn't put lullaby cd on. Fingers crossed it continues!
     
  25. fizl

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    About the co-sleeping - as long as you follow some sensible guidelines it isn't such a terrible thing

    Don't bring them to bed with you if you have been drinking/taking meds or drugs that impair brain function
    Dont put them under the duvet with you, keep the duvet away and cover them as you normally would
    Dont have them sleeping between the two of you if you are lucky enough not to be kicked out of bed by the baby
    Make sure the pillows are well away from the baby
    Memory foam mattresses are too warm for babies, and not advised as they struggle with rolling once the mattress settles to their shape

    I wont bring Ros into bed with me every night, but if she wakes up in the night and just wont settle, its that or sitting up in her room for (potentially) hours, I'm all for bringing her into bed with us.
     
  26. stoomc

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    Under no circumstances would myself or girfriend ever do this, I really couldn't care what other cultures do.

    Now your just being silly, I'm out! :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  27. BB3Lions

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    My son had all the excuses available in his arsenal last night.

    He came in at 11 2 & 4.30, I was due to drive to Newcastle at 5.30. Not impressed & the final straw broke & I yelled like a possessed madman.

    I'm just back & now in bed, kaylied..

    Tonight dreading it.. had enough of it, 3+ years of this ct*p...

    I might just move into his room & let him have my bed and be done with it....
     
  28. Ruperts slippers

    Ruperts slippers
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    My mother still blames her sleep problems because when my brother was little he constantly got into her side of the bed waking her up.

    I can remember falling out of the bed on many occasions when ella used to climb in with me and the ex...

    I honestly dont know what the answer is,i always slept in my own bed as a child...

    You could try an electric fence round his bed..

    A mate of mine tried to bribe his daughter with a rabbit ,guess what ,she stills climbs into bed with them and he gets up and sleeps in her bed...
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
  29. shodan

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    My two year old wasn't well a few weeks back and each night after being in bed for about 20 mins she would get up and out of her bedroom and stand at the baby gate at the top of the stairs crying her heart out. As she genuinely wasn't well we would give her cuddles and make her feel better then wait till she fell asleep and put her to bed.
    Trouble was when she got better she carried on with the same behaviour. She pulled the wool over our eyes for a couple of nights then we simply went upstairs, didn't talk to her but put her straight back in her bed, quick kiss then walked away. She got up a couple more times and we IMMEDIATELY did the same thing then when she realised she wasn't getting any attention from us she stopped doing it.

    I've found that sometimes you have to prepare yourself for a few hard nights but I reckon most of these type of behaviours can be overcome the child "reprogrammed" in a week.

    Of course, they don't come with a manual and they change every few minutes so each situation is different for each child.
     

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