16:9, 2.35:1 on 4:3 TV

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by vep, Feb 16, 2003.

  1. vep

    vep
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    Somebody please explain. I have a 4:3 Sony TV (2 years old) and Sony 405 DVD player. I have a Fifth Element DVD and on it's back cover it is written it has both 16:9 and 2.35:1 aspect ratios. When i watch it on my tv it plays in 2.35:1. What do i have to do make it play in 16:9?

    I belive i am mising something here. Can somebody please explain me this problem.

    thanks
     
  2. nathan_silly

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  3. vep

    vep
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    I red www.widescreen.org but i stil don't get it. What i would like to is to watch the movie in 16:9 format instead in 2.35:1.

    What does this 16:9 and 2.35:1 markings on the back cover of DVD mean? Is there a site on the net whitch would explain these markings?
     
  4. nathan_silly

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    You have a 4:3 ratioed TV. Now when you watch any DVD (other) than 4:3- ie 2:35, 1:85 etc you will get black bars on the top and bottom to preserve the Original Aspect Ratio (OAR) and correct shape (ie not vertically stretched or squashed)

    If your TV has a vertical squash option- go into the DVD players setup menu and tell it you've got a 16:9 TV.


    If your TV hasn't got a vertical squash option- go into the DVD players setup menu and tell it you've got a 4:3 shaped TV.

    Now when you watch a widescreen DVD, press the TV vertical squash button. This will allow you to use the Anamorphic resoultion of widescreen (33% extra), but since the TV is squashing it, it will correct the stretched people to normal shaped people.

    Have a play with the DVD three options (16:9, 4:3 Pan & Scan, 4:3 letterbox), try 4:3 DVD's- ie The Simpsons, and try out widescreen DVD's, with the TV squash and without. You will learn about 4:3, widescreen and the different ratios.

    I have just checked the R2 version of Fifth Element- it's 2:35.

    When a DVD says "Enhanced for Widescreen, or Enhanced for 16:9 sets" it means that widescreen version is Anamorphic.

    With your TV, you should get pretty big borders.

    16:9 format is the standard Widescreen TV ratio. The 1:85, 2:35 are ratios for films, therefore a comprimise had to be made between a 4:3 shaped set to 2:35 shaped set.
     
  5. vep

    vep
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    Thank for your explenetion. Can you just tell me what does this marking on the back of my Fifth Element cover mean. It looks something like this:

    ---------
    | 16:9 |
    ---------
    | 2.35:1 |
    ---------
     
  6. nathan_silly

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    16:9- suitable for Widescreen TV's
    2:35- OAR (Original Aspect Ratio)

    If the studio reduced the ratio from 2:35 to say 1:85, or even 4:3 (uuurrrggh!), you will lose alot of left & right picture info.

    Checkout that Flash intro on that widescreen site.
     
  7. vep

    vep
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    I tried all three DVD player options (16:9, 4:3 Pan & Scan, 4:3 letterbox) and there are no differences regarding picture and aspect size. Does this mean that if the DVD is 2.35:1 format, there is no way i can change the aspect ratio on my 4:3 TV?

    My tv has the 16:9 squash.
     
  8. nathan_silly

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    There SHOULD be a noticeable difference in the vertical size of the borders when you change the DVD player setup from 16:9 TV shape 4:3.

    Eject any disc. Now press Setup on the DVD player's remote. It should go into a GUI or text based setup screen. Change the TV screen to one of the three TV shape options (purely so you can compare each one) Select one of them.




    Now close the draw with Fifth Element.
    Choose the Widescreen version. Now if you've chosen the incorret TV shape on the DVD player option, the faces should look either squashed or stretched. It should be pretty obvious. When you've fiddled around with it, change the DVD player TV shape to 16:9, and use the squash button

    You do not want to change the ratio of the film - ie 2:35. Otherwise you will a) loose picture detail on the left and right, b) make the picture the incorrect shapre- ie squashed or stretched and c) if you zoom in with the DVD player you'll lose picture quality.
     
  9. nathan_silly

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    You might want to try out the "Why Widescreen" feature on Die Hard, disc 2.

    It'll explain alot better than I am, and it has the director explaining about each type- 4:3 Pan & Scan, 4:3 letterbox, 2:35 Anamorphic, 2:35 letterbox.

    Nathan
     
  10. vep

    vep
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    There is absolutley NO difference in the vertical size of the borders when i change the player setup (16:9, 4:3 Letterbox and 4:3 Pan & Scan)

    Thank your for your effort in explaining me this DVD things.
     
  11. calibos

    calibos
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    If I understand the original poster right, he wasn't actually giving out about black bars as is usually the case with owners of 4:3 tv's. I'm sure he knows that he is going to get black bars even on the "16:9" version albeit smaller ones.

    I think you are being confused and with good reason because of the labeling on the back. The ratio of the movie is 2.35:1 as it says on the first little box on the back cover. In the box next to it it says 16:9 version. What this means in this case is that the movie is stored anamorphically. There is such confusion because each movie studio and distributor uses different terminology to indicate this. Some dvds say 'anamorphic', some say '16:9 version', some say 'enhanced for widescreen tv's' etc etc others when they say 16:9 version can actually mean the ratio. No wonder you are confused!:D

    You can either tell your dvd player you have a 4:3 tv or you can tell it you have a 16:9 tv but use the 16:9(anamorphic squash) feature of your tv. Some say doing the latter gives a better picture even on a 4:3 tv but to be honest I never noticed a difference with my old mitsubishi 29" 4:3 when I had it.
     
  12. minimoog

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    Not wishing to be daft, and notwithstanding any of the above, but the widescreen version wouldn't be on the other side of the dvd would it?

    I only say because my MIB disc has the film in 4:3 on one side and widescreen on the other.

    I'm otherwise way out of my depth so I'll shut up now :)
     
  13. vep

    vep
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    My point exactly. I know there will be black bars even on 16:9 movie but they will be smaller than in 2.35:1 movie. Is it possible to watch the 2.35:1 movie in 16:9 aspect ratio, EVEN if the DVD is made in 2.35:1 aspect ration (anamorphical or not).


    This is what i don't get. Whatever DVD player setup (16:9, 4:3 Pan & Scan or 4:3 Letterbox) i choose the picture is identical on my TV. Niether of them is anamorpfical, but is normal 2.35:1 with huge (of course) blackbars.
     
  14. jont

    jont
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    AFAIK you won't be able to watch a 2.35:1 in 16:9 as there is no way of either the dvd player or TV 'losing' the extra width of the 'full 2.35:1' picture to make it 1.85:1 (or 16:9) ...

    The best you might be able to do is to use a 'zoom' mode on your tv setup to generate a larger picture ... but at the expense of losing resolution ...

    chck this link for a good anamorphic description ... www.dvdweb.co.uk/information/anamorphic.htm

    Jon
     
  15. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    It means that the aspect ratio is 2.35:1 and the picture is optimised for 16:9 televisions i.e. anamorphic.

    StooMonster
     
  16. vep

    vep
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    I understand now. But still, is it OK, that the picture of this DVD (which is obviusly anamorphic) is the same on all three DVD player settings (16:9, 4:3 Letterbox and 4:3 Pan and Scan)? Shouldnt it be somehow to tall when it is anamorphic and i would need to use the 16:9 squeze function on my 4:3 TV to make it correct.
     
  17. MartinImber

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    Your TV is auto 16x9 squish
     
  18. tom-m

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    On my old Hitachi, the picture would be tall when the dvd player was outputting a widescreen/16:9 signal, I would then have to press the 16:9 button on the tv remote to get the correct picture size.

    As MartinImber says your tv must do this in auto mode, as you don't notice the picture size difference.

    You should benefit from better picture sharpness if you leave your dvd set to widescreen/16:9, though the borders will be the same size in all modes.
     
  19. vep

    vep
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    I understand now. Thank you all for your help. I belive i will have to start looking for a 16:9 Tv or maybe a projector becouse a picture is too small on my 4:3.
     
  20. calibos

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    Putting aside the issue of whether or not you see a difference between setting the player to output 16:9 or 4:3 letterbox, the 4:3 Pan&Scan option doesn't work for the most part because dvd's are rarely (if at all) encoded to use it. The player defaults to one of the other modes when it doesn't find a P&S flag. The original idea when the Dvd standard was being designed was that all Dvd's would store the widescreen version. The discs would also be encoded with P&S instructions for the player to follow if you had a 4:3 tv and set the player to output P&S rather than letterbox. These instructions would be like 'Zoom in on this section of screen', 'Pan over to the other side' etc etc. Basically the dvd player is doing what a movie editor would do in the editing room when he would make the 4:3 version. The film distributors then decided, '**** this' we'll just put a 4:3 version on the other side of the disc. Then they decided '**** this' we won't bother putting a 4:3 version anywhere on the disc.
     

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