1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

1500 DVD's... which I need to backup(!)

Discussion in 'Desktop & Laptop Computers Forum' started by MyMateJohn, Apr 20, 2003.

  1. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello, I have been given a task. To backup 1500 DVDs.

    In addition, I have to provide an interface so that the user can easily pick a movie from his collection and watch the movie at his leisure.

    A DVD Jukebox in effect.

    I need you, the knowledgable fellows of this forum, to help me devise a realistic solution to complete such task.

    At the moment, what I'm generally thinking is using MPEG-4 compression.

    I have found a software package called MainLobby which I hope could be the "front-end": -

    http://www.cinemaronline.com/mainlobby.html

    I need your help to make the above choices on the compression and user interface.

    Any suggestions will be greatly received, thank you.
     
  2. Desmo

    Desmo
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    13,499
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Braintree, Essex.
    Ratings:
    +4,871
    You ever tried backing up/re-encoding one DVD? And you want to do 1500?
    Good luck :)
     
  3. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would suggest several DVD changers (say 200 changer)- better picture/sound than re-encoding, and quicker & less hassle.
     
  4. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Really? I thought that with the newest encoders: Windows Media 9, XviD, DivX etc. You could crunch a DVD down to under a gig and retain DVD picture quality.

    The user doesn't want to use a DVD changer system, he has recently become aware of DivX movies and enjoys the idea of keeping movies on the hard drive, thus I need to solve the task in this fashion.

    I'm getting paid to do this. :p


    In general, how many megabytes does a minute of MPEG-4 encoded DVD quality video amount to?

    I want a rough idea so I can find out how many hard drives I might need :zonked:

    Thanks again.
     
  5. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Say 1GB per movie, he'll need at least 8x 200GB drives, total £1600 or more.

    Plus time to convert each movie, say 8-16 hours EACH, that's 12,000 -24,000 hours.

    Then a custom application to span each hard drive, menu system etc..

    A PC, must be stable. OS + any s/w.

    Also want backup's of the HD's/AVI's in case of HD failure, either tape/MO/DVD+R, etc

    I take it the guy is a millionaire?
     
  6. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well...yes. :smoke:

    Will it take 8 hours! Even with the fastest processor available?

    I thought that with the newest encoders that I could get DVD quality video at around 700MB.

    I thought that this task might be a good challenge, but its beginning to look like accomplishing such a project is unrealistic. :(
     
  7. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    You can rip a DVD in about 15-20 mins, it'll be a exact PQ/SQ of the DVD, with 5.1. It'll remove the copy protection, macroivision and RCE. But the file will be huge, say 4GB per film. This will be Mpeg II, like the DVD (no conversion, reason it's quick)

    It'll still take 400 hours to do it this way. And of course you're talking ~6000GB.


    And it's probably illegal, if his premesis gets raided he could be charged for piracy (even though he's got the original DVD's in the shelf)
     
  8. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm not worried about the legalities, his intensions are not criminal.

    I've got about 3Gb of mp3's, what does that make me? :laugh: ;)

    Anyway, I've had some experience with using Smartripper, so I can rip, but its the encoding that's a little scary.

    Here's the Windows Media Encoder 9 Series

    If I rip the DVD, can I just use the *.VOB as a source and encode into a WM9 file using the above encoder?
     
  9. Dick Scratcher

    Dick Scratcher
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    DVD2One will reencode in about half and hour. So, an hour to rip, half an hour to reencode = 1.5 hours x 1500 = 2250 hours divided by an average working day (8 hours) = 281 days excluding any allowance for mistakes, hardware/software failures etc. I hope you are being paid well, this sort of thing could really screw you up psychologically AND physically :eek:
     
  10. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for putting it into perspective Dick.

    Ho Hum, anybody got any other bright ideas? :(
     
  11. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    17,959
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +4,934
    yeah, Kenwood do a 400 DVD changer, you're going have to daisychain a few of these together.

    Use an amp with component in, and use the amp to change between the jukeboxes, as i think you can only daisychain 2 together.

    Problems with ripping films to HDD:

    1) Everytime this guy gets a new film, he will have to rip it to HDD
    2) He won;t be able to access the extras
    3) HDD fails.....so goes his collection of films, time to rip the films again.
     
  12. Hawklord

    Hawklord
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,432
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +260
    Tell the lazy b to get off his arse choose a film, put it in his player, press play button on his remote control -problem solved. If he wants to back up copies of his films why not buy two copies at a time. It'll probably cost less money than all the hardware he'll need to purchase anyhow.
    I don't think there is a resonable option available at the moment maybe in the next few years. So he'll have to make do like the rest of us serfs.
     
  13. JSW

    JSW
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,229
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Staffs
    Ratings:
    +313
  14. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you are gonna go down the re-encoding route, a video card with a dedicated MPEG codec (with encoder, not just decoder) will speed things up for you.
     
  15. dukebox_1st

    dukebox_1st
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    26
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Ratings:
    +0
    it doens't take aslong as 8hrs per dvd, when i backup mine on my rig which is a 1700+ OCd to 1900+ speeds with 512mb ddr and geforce 4 4600 it takes between 2.5hrs and 3.5hrs depending on the lenth of film and how many discs u want it over, ie LOTHR's took 3.5hrs and was written to 2cds. hope this helps
    tom
     
  16. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've found out that this might all take place on a "server". So I might have multiple processors, this would help wouldn't it?

    Apparently the Pentium 4 3Ghz processor can encode (DivX) at 86.6fps, PAL is 25fps (correct?), My Reservoir Dogs DVD is 95mins long...(calculating)...under 28 minutes to encode!! Thats pretty good.

    And, If I had dual or more processors I might be able to encode at an even higher rate of fps.

    I'm going to find out more details of the resources that are available to me.

    Could you suggest such a card?

    :laugh: He has people to do that for him. :zonked:
     
  17. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm afraid not as I've lost touch with this area recently, but be warned that they can be expensive. As an example, I have a Matrox RT2000 at work which cost around £900-£1000 at the time, although they are much cheaper now (maybe you can claim it on expenses? :D )

    I'd suggest having a look at the Matrox product range as a first step (www.matrox.co.uk) and then look at some professional cards from other manufacturers.

    Sorry I can't be of more help here.
     
  18. MyMateJohn

    MyMateJohn
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I haven't yet received financial backing for my latest screenplay, so I sharn't be needing a RT2000! :D From what I've read, it's used to create MPEG-2 standard video.

    So, I'd actually be interested in a video card with MPEG-4 Hardware encoding, if it exists...does it exist :confused:
     
  19. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yup, that's right. I don't use it for film making either, but it's nice to encode to MPEG-2 PAL, NTSC, or whatever :D

    There must be some cards out there that do MPEG-4 in some form or other, although beware that MPEG-4 was really designed with multimedia applications (particularly those which combine video with graphics) and mobile communications in mind so be careful which Profiles the cards support.
     
  20. graham.myers

    graham.myers
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,220
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Leeds
    Ratings:
    +932
    I've got the RT2000 at home. I got it from a place who specialise in this kind of stuff near Bradford/Leeds. I'll try and track down thier name and number I'm sure they'll have some ideas about how you could encode to s server.

    The new Pentium 4 3ghz processors do something called hyper tasking. It basically logically chops itself into multiple processors and becomes an SMP machine. We've been benchmarking them as webservers and we've hit a few problems but this seems an ideal format for what you want to do.

    The front end software you linked to I saw something similar. Why dont you do a google/Web Ferret search for that and see what other people are frontending.

    Does your potential user realise he'll lose the extras as he'll lose the menu structure from the DVD.

    Either that or his next upgrade will be to integrate the extras in to the new front end.

    keep us posted!
     
  21. Mackster

    Mackster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Why dont you get a server and a large raid unit, say something from maybe EMC and copy the DVD's in there whole format. Yeah I know it would be 1500 x 4GB but they sell terra bites worth of storage ! If money is of little object I'm sure it can be done.

    Paul
     
  22. graham.myers

    graham.myers
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,220
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Leeds
    Ratings:
    +932
    so 6 terrabytes of storage. we're looking at a san of a terrabyte at work and thats £125k so 6 tb will be in excess of a 1/4 of a million at least (based on the first terrabyte covers the cost of the infrastructure). and it will need some decent aircon and a decent server.

    also most emc type storage will want something like raid 5 (this will double + plus a bit the storage)

    vastly expensive
     
  23. Mackster

    Mackster
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well that idea's a no go then. :) Drawing board time. Hey hang on, maybe you could pay a refuge to sit by the player and put the disks in.
     
  24. graham.myers

    graham.myers
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,220
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Leeds
    Ratings:
    +932
    Also bear in mind that EMC et al will use SCSI disks and not IDE.

    I cant see how realisticall you could load 1500 DVDs onto a server without spend several hundred thousand pounds.

    Now if the customer wants to spend that good look to 'em but 1500 dvds is a lot of disks for a consumer no matter how rich they are.

    jeez mines approaching 400 and I thought that was a lot (and my wife definately thinks its too many!)
     
  25. Branxx

    Branxx
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    801
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    London, UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    MyMateJohn,

    I agree with Mackster on this issue.

    For lat two years I am running a media server with 1TB used by mainly DVDs and music files (not MP3, but loss-less).

    I would really like to know more about the background of the client and the installation, but it sounds as if the person is willing to invest into a state of the art technology.

    He probably has a (acclimatised) equipment room with several racks. I would seriously think about proposing large network attached storage with initial capacity of 10TB. There is not need for massive redundancy here as the original DVDs are a backup copy and all data is (easily) replicable.

    Then just copy every DVD in full. This is the simplest to copy and simplest to maintain and retain all the features of the original.

    Again, I am positively intrigued by your project.
     
  26. graham.myers

    graham.myers
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,220
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Leeds
    Ratings:
    +932
    Branx,

    you mentioned you have a tb of NAS storage. what kind of system do you have and (if you dont mind me asking) what kind of cost.
     
  27. Branxx

    Branxx
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2000
    Messages:
    801
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    London, UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    graham.myers

    I am running a single server (not really a NAS). My system is self build using Lion Li case with Asus P2B-D motherboard and 5x200GB Matrox drives + system drive. The cost of such a system build today would be approx £1,500.

    I was just commenting how would I approach the 10TB online storage problem.
     
  28. graham.myers

    graham.myers
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    6,220
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Leeds
    Ratings:
    +932
    Thanks for the info Branxx.
     
  29. mephistopheles

    mephistopheles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree with Branxx. Unless you're going to invest in at least a dual Xeon 3.06 GHz workstation (2x2 hyperthreading = 4 logical processors) to make the re-encoding a realistic proposition by running multiple files simultaneously (and what for - to save space? or just for the hell of it and to be able to say it was done?), it makes more sense to just rip to a large file server. It would be quicker and better preserve the integrity of the original. However you re-encode there will inevitably be losses.

    Still a mind-numbing job whichever way you look at it, unless you build a Xeon DP station.
     
  30. Desmo

    Desmo
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    13,499
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Braintree, Essex.
    Ratings:
    +4,871
    So my original quote was pretty close to the mark then ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...