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14th December 2009

Stuart Wright

AVForums Founder
Staff member
Home Cinema Podcast : 14th December 2009

We look back at 2009, discuss the latest 3D news and look forward to CES and ISE

Time: 1:02:27 Size: 57.2mb. Direct Link

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Send any questions or subjects you would like covered in future podcasts to 'podcast @ avforums.com'
 
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Nelviticus

Active Member
Thanks for the podcast, it's a welcome early Christmas present. I particularly liked Neil's explanation of the situation regarding the two different 3D TV formats and the fact that they're not incompatible. I'd heard that 3D TV was coming and I was expecting it to be a disappointment, but the panel's obvious enthusiasm for it has got me all excited now too.

I take it the 'awful' Audyssey demo that Neil referred to was one involving the height channels? It always did sound like a rather desperate marketing gimmick.
 

Canti1982

Active Member
Another enjoyable podcast, it will be interesting to see what will be shown at CES. I think a lot of people will be interested in new plasma's from Panasonic and if they have taken on any of the technology from Pioneer. I get the feeling that the big push will be for 3d which I'm less interested in though I am seeing Avatar tomorrow so that may swing it for me.

Phil mentioned ISE in this podcast, having looked on the website it seems to only be open the the press. Does anyone know if you can get tickets? I currently live in Amsterdam so it would be interesting to check out.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
Another smashing show, guys.

Very interesting to hear from GG the impact the Panny has had, and here's hoping this continues with other manufacturers to give the public this route to CIH – it’s always nice to have the choice.

I note a substantial change in tone concerning 3-D from last month, and one which worries me. The three of you raised some excellent points in the previous podcast - I hope I attribute these comments correctly. ND mentioned the need for highly reflective screens and how this makes it extremely difficult to get a good picture for both 2-D and 3-D, GG mentioned how a very large screen was needed and PH commented intelligently on how 3-D filming damaged picture composition for aspects like depth of field (hope I have those the right way around - it's been a month and I haven't time at the moment to listen to the last outing in full).

None of those issues was addressed in this podcast, though none appear to have disappeared, and yet all of a sudden you appear to have undertaken a similar Damascus-bound journey and have converted from 'deeply sceptical' to 'highly optimistic'.

As The Beat once asked, wha'ppen?

Fantastic to hear very positive comments about LED projectors. I'm hoping the technology develops enough to be ready for my next PJ purchase.

On the sound format front - good points. It should be noted that we've already passed the cinema already. Even DD+ is less lossy than the standard DD you get in cinemas, so on the codec front we're getting a better raw soundtrack in the home than at the pictures. If there's any improvement in bitrates and storage capacity this should be used on the picture.

Merry Christmas and a happy new year to three of you, as well as David and this year's other contributors.

Essential listening - as simple as that. :thumbsup:

Steve W
 

Neil Davidson

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I note a substantial change in tone concerning 3-D from last month, and one which worries me. The three of you raised some excellent points in the previous podcast - I hope I attribute these comments correctly. ND mentioned the need for highly reflective screens and how this makes it extremely difficult to get a good picture for both 2-D and 3-D, GG mentioned how a very large screen was needed and PH commented intelligently on how 3-D filming damaged picture composition for aspects like depth of field (hope I have those the right way around - it's been a month and I haven't time at the moment to listen to the last outing in full).

None of those issues was addressed in this podcast, though none appear to have disappeared, and yet all of a sudden you appear to have undertaken a similar Damascus-bound journey and have converted from 'deeply sceptical' to 'highly optimistic'.

As The Beat once asked, wha'ppen?
Hi Steve,

Unless I was in a trance when the podcast was recorded I think you have a little confusion over who has said what!

I am very positive about 3D, Graham remains neutral to positive depending on content whilst Phil is still sceptical. I think this is pretty much how it has been through all of the podcasts when we have mentioned 3D.

One of the biggest challenges with 3D is getting enough light on the screen to give an impactful presentation. The answer here is a more powerful projector rather than highly reflective screens. IMO high gain screens are just plain nasty and things like screen gains of 6 are hilarious in their awfulness:rotfl:

The problem with brightness is caused by the transmisivity (sp?) of the glasses. The ones we use in our systems cost us £400 each but less than 35% of the reflected light from the screen actually reaches the eye! You can't get away with this if you are using a 1000 lumen projector. On the flip side, an image that is 3 times brighter when you take the glasses off will leave you blind in short order time - I know, I've done it!!!

It is interesting to note that the 3D Blu-ray spec has finally been released and the official press note includes the words "display agnostic" exactly what I have tried to explain in this podcast. More interestingly it also explicitly notes that the PS3 is definitely going to support 3D delivery! It gets harder and harder to find a reason not to make the PS3 your Blu-ray player of choice...
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
Hi Steve,

Unless I was in a trance when the podcast was recorded I think you have a little confusion over who has said what!

I am very positive about 3D, Graham remains neutral to positive depending on content whilst Phil is still sceptical. I think this is pretty much how it has been through all of the podcasts when we have mentioned 3D.
I think it was more of a change of tone. Maybe I need to listen again.

Steve W
 

meltonboy

Well-known Member
I think it was more of a change of tone. Maybe I need to listen again.

Steve W
I had a similar impression. Perhaps it was a mixture of who talked more this time compared with the previous podcast and maybe some of the limitations are now taken for granted (i recall a comment about it needing to be immersive and wouldn't really impress on a typical 42" screen).

Enjoyed the podcast again - thanks for all these during the year guys

MB
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
I had a similar impression. Perhaps it was a mixture of who talked more this time compared with the previous podcast and maybe some of the limitations are now taken for granted (i recall a comment about it needing to be immersive and wouldn't really impress on a typical 42" screen).

Enjoyed the podcast again - thanks for all these during the year guys

MB
Cheers. I thought I was going mad, so I too listened again the other day.

Neil, whatever your thoughts, the three of you definitely come over as being less-than-impressed in the previous podcast.

Steve W
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Another enjoyable podcast, it will be interesting to see what will be shown at CES. I think a lot of people will be interested in new plasma's from Panasonic and if they have taken on any of the technology from Pioneer. I get the feeling that the big push will be for 3d which I'm less interested in though I am seeing Avatar tomorrow so that may swing it for me.

Phil mentioned ISE in this podcast, having looked on the website it seems to only be open the the press. Does anyone know if you can get tickets? I currently live in Amsterdam so it would be interesting to check out.
You can go along and pay at the door (€40 I believe) or pre-register and save a few bob.... You certianly don't have to be press to get in, not a lot of point in that... The place is huge!!
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
Cheers. I thought I was going mad, so I too listened again the other day.

Neil, whatever your thoughts, the three of you definitely come over as being less-than-impressed in the previous podcast.

Steve W
I blame the drugs ! But seriously I remain exactly consistant with what I have previously said, its needs a big projection screen (a 42" TV simply won't do it for me, ever) and it needs to be powered by a nice big bright pj, couple that with some truely good footage (live action, natural history, discovery channel type stuff) it can and does look pretty impressive. I simply hate the shock and awe tactics of everything being thrown at you unless I'm at DisneyWorld/Universal Studios when it is fun for the ten minutes your watching it.
Shutter glasses seem to be the better way of viewing the content currently.

I am sure people will say that why not just sit closer to a smaller screen and get the same effect, I'd say you should have come to the demo we put on late last year in Leicester sq, guests were invited to sit 6-8ft from a 140" wide screen, the live safari footage (2 x 1080p feeds, one per eye) was deeply impressive at that distance and totally immersive. Can't see many people being able to do that on a normal TV unless your very good friends :rotfl: and I doubt it would look that great due to the limitations of the actual TV (happy to be proved wrong but....). Lets see what new stuff comes out soon and if it works for me, I'll certainly say so. Manufacturers have until the World Cup or the Olympics, and if they take note of my comments and try really hard, I'll be a happy man.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
I blame the drugs ! But seriously I remain exactly consistant with what I have previously said, its needs a big projection screen (a 42" TV simply won't do it for me, ever) and it needs to be powered by a nice big bright pj, couple that with some truely good footage (live action, natural history, discovery channel type stuff) it can and does look pretty impressive.
Yes, that's what I picked up from the previous podcast (and what I said in Post #4).

You just sounded more positive about 3-D in the latest podcast which was far more about its use on flat panel TVs.

Steve W
 

GrahamMG

Well-known Member
I have warmed to 3D in general as long as the director does it sensibly, being realistic, of course this means that everyone won't have a large 140" wide projection screen to show it on and standard size TV's will be quite popular. With technology ramping up in this field we may well find a decent 50" ish TV that does the job, its just that having seen it on a big screen done properly (I setup and ran a big 3D demo for over a week so saw it quite a lot) it does spoil you into wanting it. Given 2-3 weeks with a large format TV I might well be just as happy but as that hasn't happened yet I call it as I see it. I'm quite happy to have my mind changed as new stuff comes along. Lets see what comes along in the coming few months in the leadup to the World Cup eh..... I have the feeling that quite a lot will change.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
I have warmed to 3D in general as long as the director does it sensibly, being realistic, of course this means that everyone won't have a large 140" wide projection screen to show it on and standard size TV's will be quite popular. With technology ramping up in this field we may well find a decent 50" ish TV that does the job, its just that having seen it on a big screen done properly (I setup and ran a big 3D demo for over a week so saw it quite a lot) it does spoil you into wanting it. Given 2-3 weeks with a large format TV I might well be just as happy but as that hasn't happened yet I call it as I see it. I'm quite happy to have my mind changed as new stuff comes along. Lets see what comes along in the coming few months in the leadup to the World Cup eh..... I have the feeling that quite a lot will change.
Many thanks for the clarification. BTW, I largely agree.

I'm far more intested in seeing how the sport looks in 3-D than films.

Steve W
 

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