Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by KarlRobinson, Feb 19, 2003.
How much of a difference would you see?
Depends who set them up and what the source was. If done well
A L O T.
Really, so to assume both of the machines were set up well and both using the same high quality source, the Cine 9 has moved on that much since the 1209s.
From what I have seen yes. It's a different beast altogether.
Roland can probably give you the exact differences. Are you thinking of buying one? If so can I perhaps supply it?
Colour reproduction is different class on the Cine9, 1209's colours are poor by comparison (very orange reds and weak greens). Adding colour filters helps a lot, but you end up driving the CRTs much harder.
I now use a 1609s, which was fitted with new cine 9 tubes, colour corrected & HD120 lenses. Reds & greens are noticeably better than my old 808. A much sharper and brighter image ,and also a quieter unit.
A poor mans Cine 9 you could say.
Colour correction and colour filtering are two different things. Do you have the colour filtered elements as well? Just the different phopshor set in the new tubes could account for the change over 808. If the tubes are colour filtered I'd expect you to notice a huge difference in reds especially.
Rob if you know this already please don't feel I am lecturing. Just putting it in for others reading thread.
Colour correction is a coating applied to lens to try and minimse the colour shift caused by differing spectrum of light going through a lens. Remember when you shone a light through a prism in Physics class to create a rainbow. Well when you shine green light from a tube through the lens of projector some of the light spectrum shifts more than others. With a crosshatch you might see that one side of a vertical line near edge of screen is different colour to the other side. Colour correction fixes this.
Colour Filtering has the effect of moving the CIE primaries to wider points allowing a larger gammut of colour reproduction. This is at the expense of light output though which is why most non-home theatre projectors don't do it.
You can have one without the other.
I believe its colour corrected (C elements) on the red and green. if you take off the lenses, and look in at the tubes, the green and red look green and red, as opposed to white. Probably different from coloured filtering as you say. Certainly helps to achieve a more believable image, particularly on red. Also, skin tones look better.
Watching Backdraft (D-VHS) the reds on the fire engines were particularly impressive. Comparing other stuff (DVDs) that I had previously watched on the 808 (fifth element, shrek etc.) its very easy to see the difference. Of course this could be down to a number of things, but I think the colour correction makes a big difference. Although light output is reduced, I'm still running at around 50 on brightness and contrast so I shouldn't be working it too hard!
All the best
I take it then you mean colour FILTERED as well as corrected.......
Wasn't sure, thought it was just corrected. Thanks for the info.
Are you sure these are Cine 9 tubes.?
How did you adapt the lense and mounts and end stages to make them fit.
Why put such high performance tubes into a relativly low bandwidth projector?
The Cine 9 is an awesome machine there is nothing out there to beat it. but it is amazingly unforgiving. When it was first launched the Cine 9 (MAX) had to have its bandwidth reduced to prevent noise and detail becomeing visable on screen.
I have had the pleaseure of seting up a number of Cine 9's in my time at Barco and since I left. I'm off some where sunny to commision one in a few weeks too.cool:
The main difference is in the focus and convergence. What is considered as fine focus and convergence on the 1209s are the coarse settings on the Cine 9.
The 9 has a seperate power supply for the focus circuits and the tube runs at an even high voltage.
There is an amazing difference in brightness.
It is the only projector I have ever worked on that has come close to showing the limits of the Snell and Wilcox Interpolator. If you are going to have a Cine 9 then the Interpolator is the only box that will do it justice.
Any thing else is a Diesel Ferrari
Roland, how about that scaler TAG will bring out soon.
They claim to beat S&W by clear margin. I tend not to believe them too much since they have well organized pre-advertizing machine but specs look impressive.
What I'd also like to know is if S&W is going to bring out something new soon? Interpolator Gold is out there for a long time. RichardA??
I certainly would not comment on another manufacturers claims on their comparisson with Interpolator Gold - I do however think it's a compliment that people still consider the Interpolator Gold to be amongst the best in the world and a target for quality, even after it's been in production for 5 years or more. There are not many hi-tech products that stay on the cutting edge for so long (and will do so for some time yet!).
As to whether or when there will be a next generation Interpolator again I can't comment - but when you are still the reference product.....
But don't worry that we might have been standing still - we are still on the Bleeding Edge (i.e. a cutting edge that's so sharp...) of up-conversion in the Broadcast world and for the Home Cinema market, well we'll just have to wait and see
Richard (jet-lagged in Hollywood - Again ! )
I will have to wait for the first opportunity to compare them side by side (earliest December because of funds). Do not want to bring myself into position of being tempted with no financial basement.
There is one thing I have to hope for. TAG will be priced around 5k. Since latest sillicons have marginal prices compared to those from five years ago (ask Pam Anderson-Lee where you're already in Hollywood and if she's back from that ball in Vienna ) and because of TAG pricing, I hope new Interpolator Gold (if there's going to be new one ) will be affordable. (Otherwise I'll have to go LiMoPro with Cine8 - unwanted way)
Regards from "patient" patient
Garincha: I think TAG is going to be more than that......
Jeff is in Vegas. He does still have the Greyhawk. Roland and Jeff are about to carry out a groovy experiment in colour soon....... I need to get serial number for Jeff's screen so we can get him a nice shiiny white one!
It would be nice to finally find out how much Tag will be charging for this super scaler. It would be an ideal soultion to be able to incorporate one into the AV192, although I fear it will be out of my range presently. Still trying to find a good solution without breaking the bank or messing around with a PC. is difficult.
Gordon, still waiting for you to send me some info on the Leeza??
Sorry about that. email me your address and I'll send a brochure (with old pics and spec) along with a detailed synopsis of what is happening with it and when.
I am in a market for the high quality scaler, probably in the beginning of the next year. Since I know TAG is going to bring one out soon I was reading their forum on regular basis, and from diverse threads, I got some feeling it is going to be priced just over 5k. But since the company is not doing so well I would not be surprised if they make it more. (please read thread about VIP party, Rhodes wrote some infos there - I guess he got it on the party)
As for S&W, Interpolator Gold with 25k and more is not acceptable for home market. Not even if you win lottery . If S&W ever decides to enter the real home cinema market they should bring out some "home" or "light" model priced under 10k. In that case, and if it is so good (no reason to believe opposite), I would be one of the first to bite into it!
My info was that the scaler part might be around £5000 but it still needs the de-interlacing board £2000 to work...making it £7000...... Who knows, all speculation.
It would be great if S+W did a more affordable device. I am sure if they tried again they could do something much better than Interpolator but it's not really their market. I would be surprised if it happened.
Hope Richard's poker face means something is ticking around in background!
I did get to the party and what I saw was excellent however I am fearful that Tag will be charging an arm and a leg for this, I think it will be at least £7k as Gordon indicated. This will put it out of the reach of many of us mere mortals
well, it's a bit of bad news today . . .
this is going to be a "hard to get" one
whatever until then
It's all balls anyway. What's the point of filters if you're still using a bulb screen.
How did you know I have a light behind my screen?
Ah, so thats how you turn your grey screen white
Well how is the 909 compared to cine9.
The 909 was introduce for the simulation market. to all intentents they are the same.
Probably two 909 is comming into the marked, used ones from a 3D rig the next month!!!
To ££££££££ for home usage.
But I will drop a message here if, when they get official into the marked.
Put me down for one.
Be warned these will more than likely have fast decay green tubes making a proper colour balance for video very difficult.
Chances ae they will need retubing any how.
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