10th Gen Pioneer

pricklespons

Novice Member
Hello all,

Does anybody know if there are any previews or any links on Pioneers new range, I havent heard anything and i am playing the waiting game on purchasing a new set, should i get the 5090 or wait and see what the 10G can do.

I am right in thinking its normally March when they release the new models
 

Dazza115

Standard Member
Pio usually release sets around september, not march.
10th Gen pios use panasonic panels rather than pios own so we dunno what the end result will be.
There was a preview on the main page or off the 9th gen thread, it just mentions about a new image processor attached to a 9th gen to eliminate judder on panning shots.
 

pricklespons

Novice Member
Really, well i cant wait until September for a new treat!!!
 

pricklespons

Novice Member
I have a panny now, all be it a 3 1/2 year old one, and I think im ready to experience the black level of the pioneers!!
 

Dazza115

Standard Member
Thats the thing though, with pio using panasonic panels in their 10th gen tv's they may loose some of the black level that they have become reknown for.
We don't know what impact the change will have if any, but be aware of the fact that the 10th gen may not be an improvement unless pio gives panasonic their panel tech.
 

Cooney

Active Member
Thats the thing though, with pio using panasonic panels in their 10th gen tv's they may loose some of the black level that they have become reknown for.
We don't know what impact the change will have if any, but be aware of the fact that the 10th gen may not be an improvement unless pio gives panasonic their panel tech.
My understanding is that the current 9th gen TVs have pixel 'borders' which prevent inter pixel bleed and enhance the picture as a result. Also the processing is superior to Panasonic (I have a 5090 and a Panasonic 42PZ85).

I suspect that the pioneer processing would make current Panasonic panels look better but not as good as the 9th gen. The pioneers use a black screen coating and no secondary glass panel therefore blacker picture than Panasonic but that additional glass does reduce panel buzz!

I assume therefore, that future Pioneers would be superior to Panasonic due to processing or Panasonics would compete more closely if they share panel technology.

Here's the spanner in the works..... the current (very expensive) Pioneer LCD has an inferior picture quality to far cheaper Panasonics.

Will pioneer sacrifce picture quality in order to gain economies of scale with Panasonic and shift more (cheaper?) units or will they continue to strive as 'pioneers' for picture quality?

You takes your chances and pays your money!
 

homer_jay

Novice Member
I'm sure I read on here a while ago that it was literally just the front glass being sourced from Panasonic, not the whole panel. Haven't managed to find the post yet though :(
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
Pioneer normally announce in May what their product line up will be. However we have been told that we should not expect anything solid until much later this year as they transition the factory set up and production lines. They are only using the main front glass element from Panasonic for 10G as we were informed back in November at the TLC event, the rest of the panel will be Pioneer designed and manufactured. Unless anything suddenly changes, and who knows with the current climate, we don't expect any news until much later this year. Hope that helps.

BTW, Panasonic will be announcing their line up towards the end of February, we will be going to the event so will report back with all the UK specs then.
 
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alffjeld

Novice Member
from what i have been reading the new pioneer 10G panels they are produced by panasonic, but they are produced from pioneers specifications, so they are not like panasonics own panels, panasonic will get access to some of pioneers technology from next year, so then we might see some of pio's tech in pana's.
 

hilly10

Novice Member
Superfi did a demo for me using a 8th Gen Pioneer 50" hooked up to a £1500 Pio bluray player the demo disc was Spiderman 3. Now call me what you like but my TH50PZ80 feeding it Bluray and HD the blacks and the picture as a whole are everybit as good. In fact I think its only Pioneers fantastic picture when you feed it SD from freeveiw and the like the extra money stands up. If like me HD and blueray is your main diet the panny is better value for money
 

JonStatt

Well-known Member
They are only using the main front glass element from Panasonic for 10G as we were informed back in November at the TLC event
I have read that the 9G has no front glass element in a couple of places. This confused me as how can you not have a glass front element?
 

alffjeld

Novice Member
9G has only one layer of glass, while others have 2 layers.
this is one of pioneers strenghts, gives better PQ, no reflections between the glasslayers, like others have.
 

alsina

Novice Member
My understanding is that the current 9th gen TVs have pixel 'borders' which prevent inter pixel bleed and enhance the picture as a result. Also the processing is superior to Panasonic (I have a 5090 and a Panasonic 42PZ85).

I suspect that the pioneer processing would make current Panasonic panels look better but not as good as the 9th gen. The pioneers use a black screen coating and no secondary glass panel therefore blacker picture than Panasonic but that additional glass does reduce panel buzz!

I assume therefore, that future Pioneers would be superior to Panasonic due to processing or Panasonics would compete more closely if they share panel technology.

Here's the spanner in the works..... the current (very expensive) Pioneer LCD has an inferior picture quality to far cheaper Panasonics.

Will pioneer sacrifce picture quality in order to gain economies of scale with Panasonic and shift more (cheaper?) units or will they continue to strive as 'pioneers' for picture quality?

You takes your chances and pays your money!
A good indication of what Pioneer will do, can probably be deduced from how they approached their foray into LCD's last year. Worthy of note is perhaps the recent big price drop on the LCD's which in reality is an indication how charging a premium price for an upgraded 'mainstream' (Sharp) tv has not really washed with the UK market. The feeling surely is that the new Panasonic based plasmas will struggle in a similar way, unless the prices are set very keenly.
 

alsina

Novice Member
from what i have been reading the new pioneer 10G panels they are produced by panasonic, but they are produced from pioneers specifications, so they are not like panasonics own panels, panasonic will get access to some of pioneers technology from next year, so then we might see some of pio's tech in pana's.
This doesn't seem logical. It suggests that Panasonic will have a production line dedicated to making panels to Pioneer's own spec, but surely this goes against the whole idea of Pioneer buying into Panasonic's economies of scale on plasma panel production. Could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to make sense bearing in mind the financial hole that Pioneer are trying to dig themselves out of.
 

alsina

Novice Member
Pioneer normally announce in May what their product line up will be. However we have been told that we should not expect anything solid until much later this year as they transition the factory set up and production lines. They are only using the main front glass element from Panasonic for 10G as we were informed back in November at the TLC event, the rest of the panel will be Pioneer designed and manufactured. Unless anything suddenly changes, and who knows with the current climate, we don't expect any news until much later this year. Hope that helps.

BTW, Panasonic will be announcing their line up towards the end of February, we will be going to the event so will report back with all the UK specs then.
Which in layman terms is the actual plasma panel that displays the picture.
 

alffjeld

Novice Member
alsina
this is normal when outsorsing production of parts of a product.
many different brands get parts produced by others, but using the customers specs.
and it is still cheaper and easyer for pioneer to do it that way.
 

alsina

Novice Member
alsina
this is normal when outsorsing production of parts of a product.
many different brands get parts produced by others, but using the customers specs.
and it is still cheaper and easyer for pioneer to do it that way.
So are the Sharp LCD panels in Pioneer tv's different from the panels Sharp use themselves? As far as I can see, no. The Pioneer/Sharp situation would be no different to the Pioneer/Panasonic tie-in. I understand what Pioneer could do to differentiate their tv's from the Panasonic ones they will be based on, I just feel that what they've done with LCD's is the likely precedent for what will happen with their plasmas i.e use a generic panel as is and use better processing/styling to give them an edge. Time will tell.
 

Bildi

Novice Member
Which in layman terms is the actual plasma panel that displays the picture.
From what Phil has said previously, my understanding is that it is not the panel, but the actual sheet of glass. So everything will be Pioneer, but shining through a pane of glass that was made in a Panasonic factory.

Having access to the guys at Pioneer, and whom I talk with on a regular basis, the Panasonic outsourcing is just for the most expensive front part of the glass which is sandblasted with the pixel holes. According to Pioneer sources everything else from the phosphor to the electronics is pioneer product. So rumours of a Panasonic rebadge are very far from the actual plans.
From here: http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-televisions/818024-neopdp-kuro-ultimate-plasma.html#post7775267
 

eiren

Distinguished Member
The Fuga technology just sounds like they're improving the video processing. You could do that now with a 9G and a good video processor combined.

I doubt we'll see big increases in image quality until they move onto new display technologies i.e. OLED etc.
 

alffjeld

Novice Member
hi
its hard to see how it can get much better than now, specially if the tv is isf calibrated.
but never say never, pioneer has surprised before...
 

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