1080p Question

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by ubot, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. ubot

    ubot
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    Hiya Im buying a new hdtv and was wondering if someone could answer my question please
    When would i use the 1080p as i dont have sky HD
    When the tv signal will be better will it be broadcasted in 1080p?
    If so when will that be?

    Thanks for your help
     
  2. Paulleahey

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    You won't use 1080p unless you have a PS3, XBOX360, HD-DVD player or BluRay player.

    SkyHD only broadcasts in 1080i and I think even in the U.S. it's the same and they have been doing HD broadcasts for far longer.

    1080p on an HDTV is really just future-proofing if you move up to the Hi Def format discs or Hi Def gaming.

    Cheers!
     
  3. Andy_Jack

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    Although a full HD 1080p TV does not have to scale at all. 1080P TV's show the full un-diluted picture from the source and occasionally have to scale up from low res 720p.

    Basic truth:

    720p = lowest form of HD
    1080i = Better but interlaced. Medium HD
    1080p = Top form of HD.

    That is the sum of it. 1080p is great if you have a HD or BluRay dvd player or SKY HD. Anyone who says different is a low res HD user.;)
     
  4. city fan

    city fan
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    Yep, don't get too worried about 1080p. If getting a new TV may as well ensure it capable of displaying it. However don't think you'll have much use for it as yet, certainly around the 42" mark.

    Sky in the UK is 1080i. There are a no. of players that output 1080p but with the smaller screens you may not see a deal of difference, this could change with 24fps coming to the XE1 soon though :D, so you'll need a 1080p capable display for that.
     
  5. city fan

    city fan
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    I don't think the difference between 720p and 1080i is big as you make out.

    Sky is not output at 1080p

    I'll continue to watch my XE1 in 1080i,(low res :rolleyes:) and not lose too much sleep over it ;)
     
  6. ubot

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    Thanks for the info

    I forgot to add i have a PS3 and a hidef camcorder Sony HDR SR5

    How would the PS3 perform on a 780p tv

    Would i see a difference with my amateur eye?
     
  7. MAW

    MAW
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    Andy jack, you've bought the Sony marketing line lock, stock and barrel. 99% of 1080 tvs scale anyway, in order to have some overscan. Tey don't pixel map unless you tell them to, and comparatively few can be told. The massive pixel count is nothing but a hindrance with SDTV. If you are lucky enough to have a high proportion of your viewing in HD, or you own a video processor, a carefully selectd HDTV capable of pixel mapping at 1080p, at 24, 50, 60 and aybe 72Hz as well might be a good thing. However, all HD sources look great on 768 line TVs, and poorer sources usually look less bad. Your amateur eye might well see a difference at under about 5ft for a 42" screen, especially if soeone pointed out what to look for in a test pattern. Otherwise, probably not.
     
  8. sdb123

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    :rolleyes: :suicide:
     
  9. choddo2006

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    One comment I'd make; The fact Sky is 1080i isn't really relevant. For the most part I believe it's 1440x1080i as well

    but

    With a film (or most HDTV shows) any TV worth its salt (Pioneer definitely, recent video processors definitely, PZ70 not so sure, possibly) will recreate 25frames of 1920x1080p. That will include some horizontal scaling up from 1440 to 1920 but will be splicing together the real 1080 vertical lines. So you do get close to an effective 1080p out of SkyHD with the right equipment and the right content.

    Sports on the other hand can't be treated that way and is effectively 540p.

    Both of which kind of puts the lie to a simple statement like "1080i is better than 720p" but in some circumstances, it's true.

    By the way, the PS3 can't upscale 720p games (which is most of its current catalogue) to 1080p anyhow but BluRay is 1080p of course.
     
  10. ubot

    ubot
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    What is a video processor? Does it enchance sd pic quality?
     
  11. Andy_Jack

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    Good for you.:rolleyes:

    As for my other statements, I stand for them. My tv does scale 1080i sources correctly and superbly. I do watch mostly HD from sky and Blu-Ray. And finally, SD on the pz70 is superb too.:devil:
     
  12. MAW

    MAW
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    Exactly, your TV DOES scale 1080i. A processor is a device to give you better, smoother SD, and enhanced HD too, in most cases, particularly 1080i, where a process has to happen inside the TV, deinterlacing. Your TV is ok at this, not excellent. Many TVs just don't bother, they display the 2 interlaced frames one after the other, giving you 540p. One thing Panasonic are poor at is 3:2 pulldown, a film problem caused by sending 24fps film as 1080i/60. A processor and the right screen, definitely definitely NOT a PZ, can eliminate this proble too. Glad you are pleased with your TV, but it's not the be all and end all. I'd myself prefer to watch more than 6 channels, so my viewing consists of a great deal more than skyHD.
     
  13. Andy_Jack

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    Good for you. I'm happy. As for the 24fps thing, my ps3 is set ar output 24fps and there is no noticeable judder or anyting except perfect, smooth, crystal clear pictures. So what exactly needs eliminating?

    There are so many detracters of this TV. You'd swear Panasonic had upset you all. Why?
     
  14. city fan

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    You did imply a link between Sky HD and 1080p above. Anyway its nit-picking. Please try to refrain from posts that may be incorrect or confusing to other users who are new to these forums. :thumbsdow
     
  15. Andy_Jack

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    I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were a moderator. I will refrain from making mistakes from now on.:rolleyes:
     
  16. MAW

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    You don't have to be a moderator to help in eliminating confusion. You should also try to refrain from sarcasm, it's hard to distinguish from arrogance and aggression on the forum. Then you will find a mod on your case. In case you are wondering, I love panasonic plasmas, just not vieras, which are cut off, emasculated versions of the panels. The control methods do not suit my business, ever tried programming a universal remote for one? And they lack proper calibration control. Nice TV, if you just want a plug and play solution, stick it on a stand and there you are. Historically, they have had a number of problems with the model range, as I'm sure you are aware. The PZ70 seems so far to be hassle free, we shall see.
     
  17. city fan

    city fan
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    :hiya:

    The OP is new member. I believed your information was not entirely correct to him and pointed this out. Isn't it the objective of these forums to advise people and give out factually correct information?

    As it is, it's not only me who pointed out your erroneous infomation..............with out the sarcasm :smashin:
     
  18. Andy_Jack

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    Like I said, I apologise for my mistake. What time is the firing squad booked for?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    The fact that I said 720p was the lowest form of HD is still a fact though.:smashin: (This I got from What Plasma magazine.)
     
  19. city fan

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    Fair do's.

    Just a strange way of discribing it. As most people with say a 42" set will not really be able to tell the difference between the two, unless they are say 2 foot from the screen.

    And by the difference I mean 720p being better then 1080i depending on your display:smashin:
     
  20. NonPayingMember

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    You had better not believe everything you read.

    720p is actually a very good form of HD especially for sport. You must consider both spatial resolution (number of pixels) and temporal resolution (number of unique frames per second).

    (to make it easier to describe I'm going to use US figures)

    720p is 1280x720 pixels, at 60 frames per second. So 55.2m pixels a second.
    1080i is 1920x1080 pixels interlaced at 60 frames per second, so actually 1920x540 pixels x 60 or 1920x1080 pixels x 30. Result 62.2m pixels a second. As Choddo points out, much of the time it is actually 1440x1080i which at 60Hz gives you 46.7m pixels a second.

    So 1080i is not so far off from 720p in terms of the total amount of information you are getting in your broadcast at all (if not in some cases gives MORE info than 1080i). The clincher is that 720p doesn't require any deinterlacing which, done badly, can lose you a lot of information. Also being 60 unique frames a second means that it is a VERY smooth picture (not a lot of people have seen a 60 frame progressive image before - it's really quite noticeable). For sports it is the best choice for sure. No deinterlacing errors (jagged white lines, funky moire patterns on goal nets, line twitter on advertising boards) and full resolution player detail too.

    1080i when recorded as 1080i can only ever be deinterlaced to be displayed correctly.So this means that already if it's 1440x1080i there's less detail over a time than a 720p image, but moreso by being deinterlaced even more resolution is thrown away in the process. Budget screens will do what is called a simple "bob" method. Every second frame is ignored, and the missing lines in the 540 line interlaced field are just averaged (i.e. line 2 = line 1+3/2). So in other words your talking 540 lines of real resolution, and the rest chucked away and replaced with interpolated data. Better deinterlacers will retain more detail through better motion adaptive techniques, but only the best (e.g. Fuji 58 series) will do a really good job of 1080i material.

    The exception to this rule is 1080i that started life as 1080p. Very good TVs (Panasonic, Pioneer, Fuji) can detect this and recreate the original 1080p frames. Although bear in mind the highest refresh rate for these is currently 24 frames a second as found on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
     
  21. city fan

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    Well explained Liam. I was going to say don't believe eveything you read, especially in certain magazines, but I might have been accused of lining up the firing squad again:D

    Out of interest when 24 fps comes to the XE1 I believe my PX600 can accept the input but will obviously down scale it to the sets native resolution.

    Are the chances I'll see any improvement in PQ. I'm perfectly happy now, but we always want the little extra. :)
     
  22. Andy_Jack

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    Thanks for that Liam.:cool:

    What about tv's that dont have 1280 x720p res? Like plasmas that only have 1024 x768 etc? They are surely less able than TV's with 1980 x1280 or whatever?

    I now stand corrected ofcourse, but all I do know is that my PZ70 is much clearer at my viewing distance than my friends px70 at the same distance with the same material.
     
  23. MAW

    MAW
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    Well, Andy, it stands to reason that, all things being equal (or better, we'll come on to that bit) more res is better, it has the capability of smoother lines etc. Obviously if the image is 'pixel for pixel' with the source, that's best. As I explained earlier, it almost never is, because there are often 'junk' lines at the top and bottom of a video picture, so TVs have built in 'overscan', they deliberately show the image bigger than the display area and clip off the edges. Some, a very few, screens have the ability to pixel map 1080i HD video. All well and good with HD, now comes the nasty bit. SD stuff, 720x576 if you are in PAL land, like most of us, 720x480 in the land of the free. Your screen has essentially to make up 4 in 5 pixels out of the scanty info being given it. That's why, unless some 1st class electronics are built in, ( a good, not top, processor costs about £1600 BTW) SD stuff usually stinks on 1080 panels. The contents of a PZ70 are noticeably better than a Sony LCD, it shows every time in the PQ, but it's still not in the 'excellent' range, scaling artefacts are common, and as Panasonic know what the public want, what happens with poor channels is that the picture goes 'soft'. It's a bloody sight better than the hard edged, over-sharp tizzing rubbish you see on 1080p LCD, but nothing like the PQ of a pixel mapped panel with a processor. It's also an undisputable fact that the 1080p panels are not as 'black' in the black parts as the 768 panels. The processor in these has less work to do too, it's far easier to downscale than upscale, and upscaling is not such a far reaching operation for them. The whole thing is a difficult issue, my personal opinion is that the broadcast world is not ready for 1080p panels, unless you have deep pockets and a desire to fiddle with the toys a lot.
     

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