1080i vs 720p source, Panasonic plasma

Discussion in 'Panasonic TVs Forum' started by 147jk, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi all. I just purchased a 42" Panasonic TH-C42HD18 plasma. Really nice TV, except for one thing. I see a huge difference in the picture quality between a 720p source and a 1080i source. Using a 1080i source, the picture is unbelievably clear. On the 720p source, the picture is "HD", but not really all that great. The odd thing is that with my older Philips 37 LCD (37PF7320A/37BV), I see no difference between the 2 sources (they are both crystal clear).

    Am I missing something? Why would an older Philips LCD behave differently than my brand-new Panasonic? Do I not not have this TV set up correctly?

    Thanks :confused:
     
  2. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Messages:
    26,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Poole
    Ratings:
    +10,963
    Just use what you prefer, there aren't any rules.
     
  3. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Maybe a misunderstanding.. I don't have control over the source; I'm using an OTA antenna. The stations broadcasting 720p look much worse than those broadcasting 1080i. The thing I don't get is how my older Philips could produce the same outstanding image on either one, while my brand new Panasonic cannot. Philips has the "Pixel Plus" feature.. is that what's doing it?
     
  4. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,218
    Does 1080i look better on the Panny than it did on the philips?
     
  5. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    About the same - both just outstanding. But the Panny seems to need a 1080i source to do the same thing as the Philips does with a 720p source. This can't be true - I must have some setting wrong, but I can't find it.
     
  6. Pulse1

    Pulse1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,951
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Falkirk
    Ratings:
    +257
    The px80 upscales everything to 1080p then it gets downscaled to 768p as that's it's native resolution. That's why 1080i is better than 720p :smashin:
     
  7. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    OK, lets see if I understand this.

    The picture is losing clarity due to its being converted twice? If it didn't upscale, then downscale, the 720p signal would look better, as it does on the Philips, which I assume does not try to convert? I wonder if I can override it so it doesn't perform the conversions?
     
  8. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I am not able to override the upscaling. Hmmmm.. does this mean that for those of us who watch 720p TV on a set with a native resolution other than 720 will be left with compromised picture quality?

    So the only way to see an untouched 720p picture is to buy a TV with 720 native resolution?

    Disappointing :(
     
  9. rewerb

    rewerb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,448
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +639
    I notice you're using a USA model and their OTA HD broadcast. We dont have that set here in the UK and we only get HD over cable or satellite. I have the PX80 and when it's fed 720p or 1080i showing the same program (changing the output of the cable box) I am really unable to see little if any difference of PQ, though some people say 720p is best!
     
  10. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I just can't believe Panasonic would sell a brand new plasma TV that cannot handle a 720p signal properly - that's the first thing it should do! I'm going to take it back and exchange it. Maybe there is something wrong with it (but I doubt it).
     
  11. Gromit

    Gromit
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Messages:
    524
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Ratings:
    +42
    Direct source is always the best.

    720p direct to a 720p TV (e.g PX80) is better than 1080i to 720p TV.
     
  12. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes that makes sense, but what I don't understand is why this TV up-scales to 1080 when it's native resolution is less than that. Why wouldn't it up-scale to its native resolution and stop there? The further up-scaling is (apparently) spoiling an otherwise good picture.
     
  13. Pulse1

    Pulse1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,951
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Falkirk
    Ratings:
    +257
    The 42inch model is not 720p it's 768p native resolution so everything is output at 768p whether it be fed 720p/1080i or 1080p and as everything is upscaled to 1080p then downscaled to 768p i would say 1080i would produce the best and smoothest image. But always go with your own eyes as some people will see 720p as the better image :smashin:
     
  14. snig300

    snig300
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +42
    panasonic told a forum member that they put the same chip in most of their tvs to keep the cost down!:eek: so a 720/768 tv will have a 1080 chip in it so will need to be upscaled first then down scaled,yesterday i tried a test with my bd player,I turned down all stuff like 24p,hdmi cable setting to standard from enhanced,1080 to the lowest setting etc everything to its lowest setting and i couldnt tell the differance! so im left with the feeling that ive wasted alot of money buying good hdmi cables,a good BD player,scart leads etc just to have the tv step in at the last minute to downscale all the good work that the BD player has done to a standard down scale of the picture!:mad:
     
  15. alffjeld

    alffjeld
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2009
    Messages:
    103
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    well thats the thing with buying a hd-ready tv, and not a full-hd.
     
  16. snig300

    snig300
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +42
    i think your sound bite has missed the point i was making:lesson:
     
  17. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes 1080i/720p - both can be crystal clear, that is OK with me, but this TV appears to upscale a 720p source to 1080 (losing it's resolution), then downscales it. And this is done because of the chip used? To save money? I think I'll return the thing today.
     
  18. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    What do you use for the run from your cable box to the TV? Coax cable, or other?
     
  19. rewerb

    rewerb
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,448
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +639
    hdmi
     
  20. choddo2006

    choddo2006
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +542
    I'm not really sure what you're saying here.

    Firstly, 10 seconds of google would have told you that spending money on HDMI cables is a mug's game.

    Secondly. 24p has nothing to do with picture quality but rather judder.

    Thirdly, how does the quality of SCART cables affect the bluray PQ?

    What is "enhanced" supposed to do?

    And I'm personally totally unconvinced that a "good" BD player will give a justifiably better picture than a £150 Samsung.


    As for the OP - I'm a bit surprised that 720p looks that much worse - are you sure it's not just that the 720p channels are compressed harder and on the smaller Philips, it wasn't as noticeable? I'd expect 720p->1080p->768p to soften the picture a bit but not to the point it's worth taking it back.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  21. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes it's possible I was looking at the same thing compressed onto a smaller screen, although I'd swear a 720p signal on that Philips looked every bit as good as 1080i does on the Panasonic. Unfortunately, the Philips broke after 3 weeks of use :rolleyes: so I can't go back a check it again.
     
  22. snig300

    snig300
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +42

    chaddo2006 I get the feeling I've upset you!

    I've seen what has been said about hdmi leads and yes I agree you dont need to spend lots on one but a cheap 1 will affect the PQ and I would say 24p 100% affects the PQ as well, its deffo dosnt affect the sound!and on my BD player is the option for standard or enhanced hdmi input I dont know if that make a differance but as panasonic make a living from the stuff they make I would say they know more about what affects the PQ than me, and yes I did say I did a BD player test but went on to talk about the tv scaling and so a SCART would affect PQ again, much more than a hdmi lead would! I dont understand why you needed to reply to my post in such a way and without any helpful comments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  23. xit2050

    xit2050
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,917
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Belgium
    Ratings:
    +509
    No, it won't.
    :rolleyes:
     
  24. choddo2006

    choddo2006
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +542
    You have now you've spelt my silly nickname wrong ;)

    A cheap lead, especially if it's short, under 2m, won't have any effect on PQ (unless it's faulty which can happen with cheap leads... in which case you'll get very obvious sparklies all over the picture).

    If you count the removal of 3:2 judder as an improvement in picture quality, then yes, 24p will affect it. It has nothing to do with any other aspect of PQ though.
     
  25. Curry Monster

    Curry Monster
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Messages:
    5,455
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +258
    This is correct -as has been said before aslong as the lead is not faulty then the digital signal will be passed with no loss of quality.

    Only people who shop in comet/currys will be swayed by £50+ hdmi cables - it is a nonsense
     
  26. choddo2006

    choddo2006
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +542
    Sorry, missed this bit. I was just trying to help people who might read your post and take your observations as proof that no matter what kit you get, you end up with the same picture. Apologies if it came across as snarky.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  27. MZan

    MZan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +11
    I have found 720p to be sharper than 1080i, unsurprisingly.
     
  28. 147jk

    147jk
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, exactly. In addition, this Panasonic TV is sold specifically as a 720p TV, not as a 1080. So, that would lead one to figure it should produce it's very best image on an uncompressed, 720p, over-the-air signal. But that signal produces it's WORST image. I'm starting to wonder if something is wrong with this particular unit.
     
  29. snig300

    snig300
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2009
    Messages:
    877
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +42
    remember tho it scales up to 1080 then down to 720 so i would think the pq would suffer.
     
  30. Pulse1

    Pulse1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,951
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Falkirk
    Ratings:
    +257
    Lol Guys, The 42inch is not a 720p resolution display it's a 768p native resolution display :rolleyes: so everything get's output at 768p even if 720p/1080i 60/1080p/24/60/50 is input to this display. The trick is to use as less upscaling as possible for the sharpest/smoothest image :thumbsup:
     

Share This Page

Loading...