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1080i component to RGBHV

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Nic Rhodes, Mar 17, 2003.

  1. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Are there any 'scalers' out there that can do 1080i component to 1080i RGBHV?

    Quadscan CS1 / 2 can't.

    Tag were a bit confused but said theirs could do 1080i component to 1080p RGBHV and down convert to 720p, seemed a bit OTT to me.

    I know of the Keydigital converter boxes that Gordon can easily supply to me but was wondering about scalers with this facility.
    Has anyone found any?
     
  2. Chris Bellamy

    Chris Bellamy
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    Hi, Beekeeper,
    I think the Vigatec Dune F can do this, without having to deinterlace before output, although I must say I found the manual a bit ambiguous about it. It can deinterlace 1080i YPbPr and output as 1080p RGBHV, I believe.

    datasheet at
    http://www.vigatec.de/frameenglish.htm

    and the manual is at
    http://www.vigatec.de/frameenglish.htm

    BTW, I'm not sure the Tag VP2048 can do much with 1080i beyond line doubling before scaling: I dont think it can properly deinterlace to progressive, so any subsequent conversion to 720p would be compromised I should imagine. It's one of my concerns about this presumably expensive (?7000GBP) unit, although I guess they're working on an upgrade solution.

    Chris
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Faroudja's can do this transcoding I think on their VGA loopthrough I think.

    Key Digital transcoder does it (and it works as I have client with one and a JVC30000).

    TAG have actually said that their scaler will not de-interlace but will line double then scale. At least that was my understanding

    HD-Leeza will de-interlace using 2:3 pulldown etc and then rescale to resolution of choice.

    If you just want transcoding then the little doubry is ideal and can go through VGA loopthrough of most scalers.

    Gordon
     
  4. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Thanks guys, much to think about, JVC.... NTSC.... DTheater....;)
     
  5. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    Gordon, isn't that strictly speaking colourspace conversion rather than transcoding ?

    Not trying to be pedantic, just checking I have understood correctly.

    Chris Muriel, Manchester.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Yes, the little box does colourspace conversion using HDTV spec's for component matrix

    Gordon
     
  7. Garincha

    Garincha
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    why is everyone talking about 1080 lines?
    do you really believe http://www.euro1080.tv/ will have success?

    by the way , I never heard about real deinterlacing with correct pulldown for 1080i.
    must be wrong?
     
  8. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    DTheater?

    I would like HDTV but can't say I am too bothered by it, my interest is pre recorded tapes.

    Pretty much what Tag have argued but they do say they find 1080i has too many scan lines in comparison with the much better 1080p. For most mere mortals this is irrelevant, I though 1080i was good and can't remember serious scan lines the two times I have viewed it. Thought it looked quite good! Tag do use a cinemax 9 though...:smashin:
     
  9. Garincha

    Garincha
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    TAG can say whatever they want, they only cover what they do or not do. I do not believe them anyway.
    Only when I was first introduced to Cine7/Cine8 and was making decission I found out many people barking onto everyone who ever decided to make 1080i, and never heard there is real and proper way to deinterlace.

    However I saw it several times in the USA and it is really great picture, must admit!
     
  10. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    [QUOTE from Tag]
    The main problem with 1080i is not the number of lines so much as the motion artefacts which are no better on 1080i than 480i and this is where you may get benefit when the material is converted to 1080p. The conversion to 1080p is done by single field interpolation (i.e., it is better than straight line doubling as it doesn't just copy line 1 down into line 2, but instead looks at line 1 and 3 and interpolates to get line 2 which gives considerably better results).
     
  11. Garincha

    Garincha
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    about TAG:
    I did not mean I do not believe in that. It is the fact as I already said that there are no real "corrected deinterlacers" for 1080i. I basically do not believe in some of their statements on their site.
    They have very good advertizing machine and are playing "being too honest" game too often. People tend to believe too much to a written word and they are using that very well. Their CEO is a master of that game.
    Just remember how strongly they were against bypass until they got it and the same about HDCD etc. I would not wonder if the same happens with SACD in the near future (but hope not).
    The big exception is their chief engineer (John) who makes amazingly well written technical descriptions.
    I do not post there (asked once something about the scaler and got pretty one-sided response) but it is one of the biggest pleasures to read his postings.
    Just to state it clear: I like TAG as a company with a soul but I do not think they will make it. That's why I chose Meridian and have just 60iRv in my other room.
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Found guilty for being too honest, ;) , I like it :smoke:

    I will not disagree, John M answers are excellent, some of the best posts I have ever seen. I quoted one on the transport thread only the other day. He is also a pleasure to talk to.

    Re Tag changing it’s mind on HDCD,5.1 bypass, SACD I think it fair to say Tag are ‘luke warm’ on these issues and don’t push them like PL2 etc which they DO believe in. They say they have ‘reservations’ but they have provided them as OPTIONAL extras simply because people have asked for them. Seems a little harsh to criticise them for responding to a market demand even if it is one they don’t fully endorse. I don’t think they have ever changed their position on this. If they don't provide them they are criticised, if they do provide them they are criticised. How do you win? :confused:
     
  13. Garincha

    Garincha
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    might be you're slightly missing my point, nevermind, pleasure to argue with you :)
    regards
     
  14. Chris Bellamy

    Chris Bellamy
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    Hi, Garincha,
    re: ... no real "corrected deinterlacers" for 1080i

    I'm pretty certain that the (expensive) Faroudja DVP5000 correctly deinterlaces film-based 1080i @ 60Hz, using correct 2:3 pulldown. I've not myself seen it, but posts discussing it (including owners) have always confirmed this. If I'm wrong, I'd be keen to know.

    http://www.faroudja.com/products/dvp.html

    The more upmarket (ludicrously expensive) Teranex products will also do this, but the home cinema variant re-interlaces the 24p 1080 material to output at 48Hz (which they unnecessarily call progressive segmented frames - although the term was originally coined to describe a method of transmitting such progressive material rather than this way of displaying it). Gordon knows a lot more about this than me, if I've got it wrong, and has seen it in action.

    I dont know whether the Vigatec Dune F properly deinterlaces film-based 1080i @ 60Hz with 2:3 pulldown: some (owners) and reviewers have said yes, while others have said the failure to do so was a reason for not buying it! Whatever, it is limited to outputting such 1080"p" at 60fps.

    As you probably know, other standalone products that claim to properly deinterlace 1080i are apparently forthcoming, but that's all "apparently" until they arrive.

    regards,
    Chris
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Chris you are spot on with my understanding of the Terranex. It works out the orignal 24 film frames then interlaces them back to 48 fields.

    Gordon
     
  16. uncle eric

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    Nic,
    1080i looks good to me ;)
    Lets see what the HD Leeza does with it.
     
  17. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Garincha, it appears I may owe you an appology, it seems Tag are less than keep to admit to any technical limitations afterall. They are more than happy to hide behind telling people they are wrong and hoping it will all pass with time. Glad I went elsewhere now for my video processor, in fact it was Tag that lost the sale...

    I appologise :blush:
     
  18. Chris Bellamy

    Chris Bellamy
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    Tag are being rather foggy at the moment: a man from Tag I stumbled across a few weeks ago indicated the scaler was being delayed (primarily) so it could have proper 1080i deinterlacing added before release (late Summer for integrated version, later still for standalone unit!). I’ve not seen anything about this on their site.
    Did you go for the HD Leeza, which is shaping up rather nicely according to the early AVS reviews?

    Chris
     
  19. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Yup I am waiting for my KD.

    If Tag have delayed until autumn to get proper 1080i de interlacing, all credit to them but it makes a mokery of the attitude to me over the last few days when I have 'dared' to challenge them on this that the old model had. I suspect when the new model comes out we will have the Udo I told you so comments, perhaps I should point him here to indicate that this info had been known during all our discussions . I suspect we will just get the usual bull **** of the new shuff is super duper and how could you have ever considered the SIL504 as a solution. ;(
     
  20. Chris Bellamy

    Chris Bellamy
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    Well, good luck with the HDL, I'm sure it will settle the blood pressure!

    I've little doubt that I'll be going the same way - Tag are being too nebulous for their own good - I'm not waiting till the end of the year for something that still might not do what I want (or be affordable) if such unofficial comments turn out to be BS.

    Chris
     
  21. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    some one summed it up well in an emails to me, they are too busy spinning on their forum to notice they are losing customers :)
     
  22. Garincha

    Garincha
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    No need to apologize. There is nothing black and white. It is all the matter of who you like and who not.

    I personally do not like TAG but I think they have some great products. Latest is dual procesor with room EQ. I am very keen to see what Meridian will do with its EQ.
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I will happily speak my mind but I don't mind admitting I am wrong when I am, pity Tag doesn't follow the same philosophy though :mad:
     

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