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1024x576 via DVI\hdmi to my Panasonic 700?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Dunkwho, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. Dunkwho

    Dunkwho
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    I've opened this topic up a bit to try and get some more feedback on HTPC to AE700 connection - please don't follow the ntsc vs pal fps comments at the bottom of this thread ... lets keep on track eh ! ? :rotfl: :smashin:

    What techniques\setup are being run between a PC and AE700? my htpc has a radeon 9600 with dvi and vga output, i'm running the vga output to my tv's rgb scart input at the moment, now i need to get the pj hooked up.

    Do i go dvi->hdmi? who's running a reasonably priced dvi\hdmi cable setup (10m) that can recommend their cable setup?

    Do i go dvi->vga->rgb? I've got a dvi->vga adaptor, anyone got any experience with the radeon vga to rgb setup working ok with an AE700?

    Do i go dvi->vga right to the pj? i've not got a 10m vga cable (again, recommendations) and I'm not sure how\if my powerstrip 1024x576 tv settings will have any role to play here?

    Do i keep my jstech rgb->svid convertor box in the pj path, i've tried using ths with the vga->rgb signal I'm feeding my tv but it comes out wrong, the scan fields are wrong with the two fields swapped in height (pics here and here).

    Thanks for your suggestions - i'm very confused\undecided (i think ...! :D )

    Duncan
    ------
    original post
    ------

    I wonder ... does anyone have any experience of running 1024x576 to a PTAE700 already?

    I'm in the throws of moving from my tivo\freeview box setup to a MCE2005 PC with dual DVB tuners. Right now the tivo output is converted to svideo for cabling to the PJ through a jstech box - I use the component input on the PJ for the DVD player.

    If I choose to use the MCE box for dvd playback too I could use the DVI output from my radeon card to the HDMI in on the PJ (VGA o/p is running a RGB scart output for the TV\svid convertor right now). Correct TV operation means the windows desktop is running 1024x576 @ 25hz, what will happen if I feed this to the PJ through the DVI route - will it work and will it display a full size image?

    I'd try this myself if the PC was anywhere near the PJ ... but it isn't - the PJ is ceiling mounted too so I can't even move the PC near it on a temp basis :(

    Thanks
    Duncan
     
  2. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Can't help with information 'cos I don't have an AE700, but what are you getting at when you say "Correct TV operations means .. 1024x576 @ 25 Hz"? I understand this is native 16:9 PAL resolution but I don't see what you mean by 'correction operation'.

    The AE700 like all digital devices includes a scaler that will re-size the incoming video to match the size of its' panels, known as 'native resolution'. There will probably be a menu option to avoid this, in which case the image will appear in the middle of the screen with large black borders around it, 'letterboxed'.

    Whether the 700 can operate as low as 25Hz I don't know, it may well no, in which case you'd probably have to use 50 or even 75 depending on that the 700 can take.
     
  3. Dunkwho

    Dunkwho
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    Running the rgb-vga cable means I need to use powerstrip to tweak my settings to get a 1024x576 image, including setting the output to 25hz interlaced. Here's the powerstrip settings I need to use for my TV.

    PowerStrip timing parameters:
    1024x576=1024,68,48,132,576,5,5,39,19875,41

    Generic timing details for 1024x576:
    HFP=68 HSW=48 HBP=132 kHz=16 VFP=5 VSW=5 VBP=39 Hz=25

    Linux modeline parameters:
    "1024x576" 19.875 1024 1092 1140 1272 576 581 586 625 interlace +hsync +vsync

    My question really is how will these settings look on the PJ when I hook the DVI up.
    1) will it work? ... my DVIed flat panel won't for example
    2) will it be full size? ... I quickly tried using the radeon hdtv dvi dongle for component out from the dvi to the pj - I got an image but it was 50% size (from memory) in the centre of the screen.

    I guess only some else who's running a similar setup with their radeon can give me a definative answer?

    Cheers
    Duncan
     
  4. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Ah right, with you, I didn't understand you were saying you also wanted to connect to a TV.

    Chances are good any digital display won't like a signal with such a low refresh digitally (some won't take it via analog either), as I said you'll probably need to try 50 or 75, which your TV should also be happy with.

    As for what you saw with component, as I also said, digital panels invariably have a setting which resizes input to full display size. It sounds like your 700 at the moment isn't set to that that, try looking for a menu option to alter that.
     
  5. scumball

    scumball
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    Why do you want 25Hz? (normal PAL TV is 50Hz)
     
  6. Dunkwho

    Dunkwho
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    it is ... but its interlaced. top, 3rd, 5th, etc lines in frame 1 ... 2nd, 4th, 6th in frame 2. The original image is actually 25hz, the refresh rate is 50hz but using the interlacing.

    I tried this last night (minus DVI-HDMI) using my jstech box. The tv shows a nice clear picture, the PJ gets things nearly right but not quite. I should have taken a picture ... I couldn't figure out if the image was being slightly vertically stretched, or I was getting an overlay of the same image 1 (or 2) pixels above the other. What confuses me is that my tivo works fine in this configuration supplying an RGB signal appropriate for both the TV and PJ through my s-vid converter.

    I also tried my hdtv dvi adaptor, all options (480i, 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i) gave the same problem of a virtual desktop only 75% of the original image.

    some more to investigate here, I'll be taking my rgb cable discussions over to the vga-rgb thread in the home theater PC forum rather than clogging up the PJ one.

    Duncan
     
  7. KraGorn

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    PAL is 25fps, that's what determines the base refresh rate, NTSC film is 24 and NTSC video is 30 (well, 29.something to be precise).
     
  8. MikeK

    MikeK
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    Actually film is 24fps - film on NTSC is still 30fps (OK 29.97 :) ), using 3:2 pulldown
     
  9. KraGorn

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    I don't think that's correct. When playing film-based NTSC material on my scaler or on my PC I run at 48hz, but if I try to do that with video-based it isn't smooth, I need to use 60hz for that, AIUI that's when 3:2 comes into play.

    This is borne out by the way Reclock works, if it detects the video stream is NTSC at 60hz but the material is actually 24fps film then it suggests selecting 48hz.

    This article on PAL and NTSC mentions 24, 25 and 30 fps, check the section Field and Frame Rates.
     
  10. MikeK

    MikeK
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    When playing film-based NTSC material on my scaler or on my PC I run at 48hz,

    Yes, you are detecting and removing 3:2 pulldown from film sources - what you are left with is 48Hz progressive video in 2:2 cadence - it's not really NTSC though now (it's perhaps better :) )


    but if I try to do that with video-based it isn't smooth, I need to use 60hz for that, AIUI that's when 3:2 comes into play.

    There is no 3:2 pulldown here - video is inherently 30 frames/sec (60 fields/sec), so it's not needed. Once deinterlaced, video becomes 60 frames/sec - if you play that back at 48Hz, you will have to "lose" 12 frames/sec - hence the jerkiness.

    This is borne out by the way Reclock works, if it detects the video stream is NTSC at 60hz but the material is actually 24fps film then it suggests selecting 48hz.

    Again, this is 3:2 film mode cadence detection with pulldown removal - if your display can take this 48Hz signal, then use it - the motion judder caused by 3:2 pulldown is removed from this signal, and you are left with the closest you'll get to cinema reproduction.

    Standard NTSC requires a field rate of 60 fields/sec (actually it's 59.94, but that's splitting hairs).
    Progressive NTSC is 60 frames/sec (this is confusing though - in reality, only 30 unique frames are sent for video, and only 24 for film, but each frame is repeated twice for video, and 2 or 3 times for film (3:2 pulldown) to get the 60Hz frame rate)
    In either case though, the vertical sync frequency is 60Hz!
     
  11. Dunkwho

    Dunkwho
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    bump with new, wider thread topic :)
     

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