10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

Uruloke

Active Member
m1ket said:
the main reason for me is that you dont just need a new player but also a new tv, this was not the case with dvd

QFT. Very good point.
 

chriszzzzzz

Active Member
IMHO The main poblem is one of pricing. It's OK discussing the various merits/demerits of HD on forums like this, it's another problem mass selling the idea. Joe public just wants to watch a film for the story for goodness sake, (a fact never discussed here just the amazing PQ).
If people like Sky and the film studios are going to give HD at a high price then the jump must be worth it to none technos who just want some entertainment in their homes.
I have seen HD both here and in the States and to be honest the PQ is fantastic. However, whether jump from a good DVD player to HD is actually worth the money to Mr Average is debatable.
I'm not suggesting as format it's going to fail (obviously not) just that it will take a longer time than the manufacturers etc would wish for it to become the mass format.
My people in the States (sounds good) reliably inform me that rather than DVD pushing HD the over riding factor is sport. However, this is in a country where millions of people still watch TV on old CRT's and hundreds of TV stations just push out old B/W movies.
Anyway, I hope you early adopters enjoy what the rest of us will probably buy in 2 or 3 years time when we have stopped spending our dosh on other things..:)
 
If people like Sky and the film studios are going to give HD at a high price then the jump must be worth it to none technos who just want some entertainment in their homes.
Exactly. They'd better start some really good films rolling on HD-DVD and BR.
 

Evil Engineer

Active Member
m1ket said:
the main reason for me is that you dont just need a new player but also a new tv, this was not the case with dvd

I think you've got it the wrong way round there, fella.

HD-DVD/Bluray won't drive the sales of flat screen HD displays. The sales of flat screen HD panels will drive the sales of HD-DVD/Bluray!

The price of 32" and 37" LCD panels have dropped to the level at which widescreen CRTs went mainstream (less than £1000 for 32") and people are buying them. Not because they are HD but because they are flat.

Once the displays are in peoples houses it gets much easier to flog them HD sources. This is what Sky are up to now and HD-DVD/Bluray will follow suit.

The format war doesn't help but the concept of high definition is slowly entering the public conscience in the same way that widescreen did back in the mid-90s.

Average screen size is going up and with the right marketing at least one of these HD disc formats will be here to stay.
 

Faust

Well-known Member
Evil Engineer said:
I think you've got it the wrong way round there, fella.

HD-DVD/Bluray won't drive the sales of flat screen HD displays. The sales of flat screen HD panels will drive the sales of HD-DVD/Bluray!

The price of 32" and 37" LCD panels have dropped to the level at which widescreen CRTs went mainstream (less than £1000 for 32") and people are buying them. Not because they are HD but because they are flat.

Once the displays are in peoples houses it gets much easier to flog them HD sources. This is what Sky are up to now and HD-DVD/Bluray will follow suit.

The format war doesn't help but the concept of high definition is slowly entering the public conscience in the same way that widescreen did back in the mid-90s.

Average screen size is going up and with the right marketing at least one of these HD disc formats will be here to stay.

Well perhaps I'm unique, or perhaps it's my age, however, I know far more people who still own a CRT's than I do with flat panel t.v.'s many of whom have only just moved to Widescreen, and what's more they are more then happy with them and have no plans of changing them anytime soon. Given the longevity of CRT technology (twelve years is quite normal) then I think that for all but the enthusiasts the manufacturers of HD have to be prepared to be in it for the long haul on this one.
 

NackNack

Banned
Those going to widescreen will be pretty much forced between going to Tesco or Asda and getting a £150 jobbie, or going to Currys/Dixons/wherever and only being able to get a flat-screen HDTV. It'll be all you can buy.
 

RXP

Member
From my experience of reading US sports forums, the biggest HD market is live sport. Hi-def DVD's don't cater for that. I seriously dont' think they're gonna take off because most people do not care or have the equipment to enjoy it. And a lower quality more convienent on demand movie/tv service will win.

The real format war I think will take place over HD-DVD-r and Blu-Ray-r's i.e. the computer backup service. Where I think Blu ray's will win. Computer uses will love 25gb space per disc. But of course it's all down to price and IFF dual layer ordinary dvd discs don't drop in price dramatically from their current levels.

But really all this HDTV is marketing, marketing, marketing. No average joe I know cares. In the US it's mostly on sports people comment about.
 

boksbox

Active Member
I've read several different sites reporting that the initial BD disks and players are producing so so results even if future players and disks produce excellent results isn't this rush to market a disaster for BD from which it may never recover?
 

Uruloke

Active Member
boksbox said:
I've read several different sites reporting that the initial BD disks and players are producing so so results even if future players and disks produce excellent results isn't this rush to market a disaster for BD from which it may never recover?
Only time will tell...
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
RXP said:
From my experience of reading US sports forums, the biggest HD market is live sport. Hi-def DVD's don't cater for that. I seriously dont' think they're gonna take off because most people do not care or have the equipment to enjoy it. And a lower quality more convienent on demand movie/tv service will win.

The real format war I think will take place over HD-DVD-r and Blu-Ray-r's i.e. the computer backup service. Where I think Blu ray's will win. Computer uses will love 25gb space per disc. But of course it's all down to price and IFF dual layer ordinary dvd discs don't drop in price dramatically from their current levels.

But really all this HDTV is marketing, marketing, marketing. No average joe I know cares. In the US it's mostly on sports people comment about.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. For me, HD's biggest 'viewing' selling point is sport. I was thinking of laying down hard cash to get SkyHD but then realised that after the World Cup there wouldn't be anything to look forward to for a while. Whilst high- def movies would be great it's not a deal clincher for me.

However, using this technology in pc's has got me most excited. I use lots of data (mainly home movie files) and the ability to get more per disc is a real plus point - I'm always running out of space at the mo!
 

bishman

Well-known Member
Tejstar said:
I agree with you wholeheartedly. For me, HD's biggest 'viewing' selling point is sport. I was thinking of laying down hard cash to get SkyHD but then realised that after the World Cup there wouldn't be anything to look forward to for a while.
Will any of the premiership matches be broadcast in HD?
 

Uruloke

Active Member
bishman said:
Will any of the premiership matches be broadcast in HD?
If you have SkyHD then yes, most if not all of them will be in HD.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
Yep, afaik the Premiership will be, however not sure about the Champions League? Can anyone confirm this?
 

Crispin

Active Member
I'll do what I always do.
Wait 4 years and pick up my HD-DVD/Blu-Ray hybrid recordable for £30 from Woolworths.
 
S

simonharris

Guest
Naysayers . . . . well I have a Toshiba HD-DVD player and it's incredible - so there.
 

Faust

Well-known Member
I think it depends on what your interests are - for me sport on t.v. is a bigger turn off than having your teeth drilled. DVD's - I have a DVD player which has rarely been used, reason? I rarely watch movies. That just leaves broadcast t.v. which I do watch, mostly BBC1 2 and 3 plus the Sky Docs channels so for me any talk of Hi Def in the short to medium term is a non-starter, besides as I said previously I'm pretty contented with Sky and Freeview SD broadcasts and I can't understand why anyone wants to improve on what I consider to be stunning PQ anyway.
 

Uruloke

Active Member
Faust said:
I'm pretty contented with Sky and Freeview SD broadcasts and I can't understand why anyone wants to improve on what I consider to be stunning PQ anyway.
What TV have you got? If your watching on a CRT then I suppose that's fair enough. But on a HDTV...
 

andypandy

Active Member
There's no denying TV is in the mainstream of MOST peoples live and this hi-def advancement WILL take off (it already has !) and simply continue to grow because it is clearly leaps and bounds better than a CRT. Forget about sitting 20+ feet away from a 50" plasma for optimum picture - with HD you can be 5 feet away.

I fear the longer blue ray/HD begin to show a break through the more money SKY will be raking in. I wouldn't be surprised if the big SKY corporation keeps them at bay as long as poss.

ME, I'm not being drawn that deep, but certainly looking very closely at the newly released pioneer 1080p screen. For my current dvd collection ofcourse.
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
I think I've said this before but, the biggest impact PS3 will have on BR is IMO on BR disc production costs. IF all games for PS3 come on Blu-ray discs then almost overnight there will suddenly be millions of commercially pressed BR discs in the world. The fact that very few of them will be movies doesn't matter as it will help enormously in reducing yet another difference between the competing formats. If that's the only contribution PS3 makes to BR then it will be worthwhile. If people then buy the odd BR movie too then I'd see that as a bonus.

I'm not sure we'll see Sony adopt VC-1 anytime soon as they see Microsoft (it's author) as a competitor, so either they'll stick with MPEG2 (bad idea) or they may use MPEG-4, which is what they *should* do...

Personally I'd rather see BR succeed over HD-DVD simply because I think one market is enough for MS to be dominant in and that in general the Japanese electronics companies are not as ruthless in their business practices.

However, so far HD-DVD seems to have done a better initial job and my gut feel is that much of that will be down to MS behind the scenes, they'll see this as a major opportunnity and will continue to hide behind Toshiba initially.

The big winner in the UK for now though will probably be SKY. It's the least risk way to get some form of HD while the disc format war sorts itself out. 15-0 to HD-DVD, but it's still the first few shots and way too early to spot the winner.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
Just checked the Sky website - it confirms the HD Premiership but no news on HD Champions League... yet!
 

DanH

Active Member
I saw an advert on Sky last night for HD. (Swirling background thing with footy commentry in the background)
It definately said Premiership and UEFA Champions League in HD. Dunno how true it is, buts that what it said.
 

bishman

Well-known Member
DanH said:
I saw an advert on Sky last night for HD. (Swirling background thing with footy commentry in the background)
It definately said Premiership and UEFA Champions League in HD. Dunno how true it is, buts that what it said.
I think that champions league played within England will be fine but I'm not sure about continental matches. I seem to remember that last season a lot of Arsenals away matches weren't even widescreen broadcasts but all of the home games were.
 

Tejstar

Distinguished Member
bishman said:
I seem to remember that last season a lot of Arsenals away matches weren't even widescreen broadcasts but all of the home games were.

A lot of the ITV 2 matches were in 4:3, however all the Sky ones were widescreen iirc.
 

rob64

Active Member
I truely believe both hd formats are a flesh in the pan . Hd via satelite for starters will have an effect as it appeals to people who don't want to mess around , just switch on their telly and watch . The other thing is that a disk of any kind is just a transport method for data . That's it ! A plastic disk spinning round in a box is not a leap forward . A leap further would be to have the data direct to you via high speed link to a pc of a kind . hard drives get bigger and cheaper . Internet is getting quicker and cheaper . Think "i tunes " for films but same quality as hd and bingo ! i reckon 2 or 3 years tops .
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
rob64 said:
I truely believe both hd formats are a flesh in the pan . Hd via satelite for starters will have an effect as it appeals to people who don't want to mess around , just switch on their telly and watch . The other thing is that a disk of any kind is just a transport method for data . That's it ! A plastic disk spinning round in a box is not a leap forward . A leap further would be to have the data direct to you via high speed link to a pc of a kind . hard drives get bigger and cheaper . Internet is getting quicker and cheaper . Think "i tunes " for films but same quality as hd and bingo ! i reckon 2 or 3 years tops .
Can't see it personally... Even with 10Mbps broadband, it would take over 8hrs at full tilt to download a 30GB HD movie (picked 30GB simply because it's the HD-DVD max and below the stated max of Blu-ray) and that's assuming that your broadband line isn't being shared with 30 other people doing the same... :)

You then need to be able to back that movie up, just incase something happens and you lose your hard disk... Guess what you'll back it up to, a high def DVD writer?? Also you'll probably need an array of disks to hold a decent no. of movies and I don't know about anyone else but I don't fancy a storage array whirring away 24x7 in the lounge or elsewhere.

Buying discs for me is the safe way to get high def movies, you get a built in backup, can be delivered next day, (almost as quick as download ;)) and no need to back up pesky DRM databases or waste electricity keeping your collection available...
 

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