10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

Pooon

Distinguished Member
audioholics.com said:
10 Reasons Why High Definition DVD Formats Have Already Failed

I'm not typically a doom and gloom kind of guy – really, I'm rather optimistic. But this pending format release/war is simply the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a long time. The hype machine is entirely enthusiast-created and since that day I realized Steve Jobs could sell a fart provided he sued a public Mac forum for talking about it before its release, I began to understand the power of public mania.

There are a number of reasons why the new high definition DVD formats have already failed and I'll gladly go over some of them in this article. I am not a soothsayer, but I do study the industry – and at times, sit back and take assessment of what's happening from both a consumer and manufacturer perspective.

Without any further ado, here are the reasons HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc will never turn into the dominant formats for digital media viewing:

Nobody likes false starts
With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i, coupled with a buggy interface and a transport that makes boiling water seem like a speedy event, the entrance of high definition DVD into the mainstream came out of the starting gate lame and hobbled. For Toshiba to release a player that didn't support true HD at 1080p (even though the software does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track, the high definition wave was more of a ripple. Add to this the delay of HDMI 1.3, lack of market penetration and supply, and a dearth amount of software titles and you have a very unimpressive product launch.


Format Wars Don't Sell Players
The only reason Sony's Playstation, Microsoft's Xbox and the Nintendo GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of excellent software titles. People want to buy the hardware just so they can play the software. This is not a format war – it is choice, just like Chevy and Ford (and just like the gaming systems, some people have one of each). The high definition DVD formats, however are really just the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too greedy to combine forces, and not innovative enough to drive two truly separate products successfully. Take careful note – a format war is NOT competition, it is a hindrance and the bane of high definition DVDs.


HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology
Consumers came over in droves when CDs were released back in 1982. The new format offered not only a new digital media, but also a way to instantly access tracks across an entire “album”. Convenience, not technology, drove this format to almost instant consumer adoption. Fast forward a bit to 1997 when the first DVD player was released. Again, convenience, not technology, drove people to the market en masse. Unlike VHS tapes, the new DVD format was smaller, easily navigated and would not wear down over time like existing tape-based formats. Heck, the concept of a shiny plastic disc was new – and quite frankly, it was the coolest thing to hit the technological shelf since solid state technology. In comparison, the high definition DVD formats, save the color of the business side of the disc, look exactly the same… and consumer confusion will surely follow.
What do the new high definition DVD formats offer consumers over DVD? Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life. Consumers, most of whom rarely know how to properly configure their players or home theater systems, are perfectly content with their current DVD players (and indeed some have just jumped on board to DVD in the last several years). While the potential for more extras and alternate endings exists due to increased storage on the new media, there is no compelling reason for consumers to migrate over to the new high definition DVD formats in large numbers.


Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated
Studios are so conservative in their practices as to consistently miss out on market advances – even those that can make them money (ie. Why is a computer company running the world's most successful online music store?) The studios are not jumping on board the high definition DVD bandwagon just yet – and you can see the lack of titles to prove it. If the movie studios decided that HD DVD or Blu-ray (or both) was to be the next dominant format, it need only to flood the market with software titles and present a plan to roll back on DVD production over the next 10 years. Even though this would grant them the secure format that they seem to want (HD DVDs and Blu-ray discs promise to be much harder to rip or duplicate) there is no indication in the industry that this is taking place or even in the works. The studios are making money hand over fist with DVD they cannot seem to bring themselves to seriously initiate a new, unproven technology – even if it saves them from some other copyright headaches.
Add to this the fact that new titles are coming out at $30 a pop (and this down from an initial $35/title) and you have a really hard sell for consumers who are used to $15 titles at Wal-mart and the large electronics chains.


Playstation3 Cannot Save the World
We have consistently heard it said that the Playstation3 will “jump start” the market by flooding it with millions of gaming systems capable of handling Blu-ray Disc software. The problem with this theory is that the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component and, if current installations prove the rule, most will not be situated in the average consumer's living room. The result is that the PS3 will primarily be a *gasp* gaming system. Maybe I have a more traditional group of parents in my association of friends, but, taking into account #4 above, I do not think that Blu-ray will make any major leaps forward in market penetration as a home video format – at least not anytime soon.
History is bearing this out, as the HTPC market, though driven hard by such manufacturers as Microsoft, Dell and HP, has struggled to find a place in the living room. Nearly every gaming system of the past: PS2, Xbox, and even the legendary 3DO system have been touted as “set-top boxes” but in reality find themselves situated in more “gaming-centric” environments playing… you guessed it, games.


Those Who Ignore History…
For years we've heard about the evils of MP3 and illegal downloading. All the while the RIAA and music industry had two formats that could have prevented any illegal copying – at least for all but the most dedicated crackers: DVD-Audio and SACD. These formats proved to be higher quality than CD, presented much enhanced copy protection schemes and were easily used as alternative formats to CD. Yet both formats failed miserably to achieve any significant market penetration. Why? Without an artificial “shove” from the record industry – which never materialized – technology alone is never enough to push a new format into the hands of consumers. In terms of convenience and ease of use, DVD-Audio and SACD offered nothing to consumers. In fact, they made listening to music more complex, since most hardware was unable to correctly decode and provide adequate bass management for the new formats.
Could these formats have succeeded? Absolutely. If the recording industry had presented a plan to phase out CDs and the “format war” had been avoided (simply by the industry picking one format over the other) we would all be using DVD-Audio players and illegal downloadable music would be mostly confined to analogue rips or older music. Is this a stretch? Perhaps, but only because history shows us that corporate greed causes most companies to miss the long term economical gains over a short term loss of licensing revenues.


People Want Technology that's 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time
For many people, getting into HDTV is all about the widescreen and being able to see their DVDs with more clarity than ever before. When Billy Bob comes home with his new high definition 720p display, the difference between that and his older SD TV is amazing – at least when he's watching DVDs. You see, that's the problem – and it's two-fold. While most consumers are still getting into the HDTV craze, they're already impressed. And the difference between SD TV and HDTV is more amazing than the difference between 480p DVDs and 1080i downrezzed high definition discs.
The other side of the coin is the lack of HD content available on TV – and this is a biggie. While Billy Bob is impressed by his DVD player, he is dumbfounded by his cable TV – which actually looks worse than it did on his old set (mostly because it's bigger). You see, nobody told Billy Bob that he'd have to get an antenna or subscribe to HD service from his cable/satellite provider. He was also not told that most of his favorite shows (Billy likes sitcoms and the Sci-Fi Channel) aren't yet available in HD, regardless of technology or service provider. As a result, many Americans are underwhelmed or feel like they got burned by HDTV. The last thing they're going to do is rush out and buy the next greatest thing.


Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter)
While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by 8-track, laserdisc, SACD, and DVD-Audio (and possibly soon non-HDCP HDTV) – these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons. This leaves a shrunken market of even the bleeding-edge consumers, and that means even less sales to early-adopters.


A Skeptical News Media Doesn't Help
I'll admit it, we're part of the “problem” (though I'd like to think we're saving consumers from making the next big mistake). An increasingly skeptical news media isn't buying into the hype of HD DVD and Blu-ray, especially not after wasting millions of editorial words on DVD-Audio and SACD, only to watch the software and technology dwindle into obscurity. Even after almost 6 years, most consumers continue to proffer puzzled looks when these audio formats are mentioned. The new DVD formats are getting plenty of press, mind you, but with the Toshiba flop and lack of software, the fact that the Emperor has no clothes (at least not yet) is hard to avoid.


Broadband and IPTV to Compete?
With Verizon, AOL, Time Warner and others jumping to provide HD on-demand services for the consumer it is a very likely event that high definition DVD will be something that isn't relevant in a service-directed marketplace. Add to this Apple Computer's recent push for video downloads and we may find that consumers are far more interested in quantity, portability, and ease of use over high quality source material. Even with respect to high definition formats, downloadable files burned to consumer-supplied media may make data high definition DVDs more significant than the retail formats. This consumer model is being readied for testing in South Carolina's head-end for Time Warner Cable this year.
So, while I certainly hope for the best, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. High definition is headed for a niche market at best, not an industry takeover.

Original Article
Raises some interesting points and personally i thought it was a good read
 

steve0

Banned
Has he actually seen HD DVD, I dont think Im the only one but it blows me away.
Read the forums I was against HD DVD until I experienced it. The picture on my 436xde nearly fried my eyes, biggest leap to me is the sound quality though.
 

NackNack

Banned
"HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology"

It's gradual - this is a route to improved technology, it'll just have a slower uptake in comparison to DVD.
 
I hope the new formats become popular enough for the rental stores to make available to us. Netflix in the US have started to provide HD DVD to rent, so i'm hoping Blockbuster and other UK post rental services will do the same here.
 

Epicurus

Well-known Member
steve0 said:
Has he actually seen HD DVD, I dont think Im the only one but it blows me away.
Read the forums I was against HD DVD until I experienced it. The picture on my 436xde nearly fried my eyes, biggest leap to me is the sound quality though.

That wasn't his point though was it. He made repeated silly non-factual statements to get his point across, that "technology" doesn't make something successful.

Although I disagree with a lot of what he said, he does make some good points.

I myself am very sceptical of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray becoming successful systems. It's simply too soon after DVD for people to go out and buy new players and replace their entire collection yet again. Also everything is simply too complicated now for the average consumer.

When VHS came out all you had to do was hook it up to your TV via the aerial lead and tune it in. Even that proved complicated for the majority of TV owners. But it was a brand new idea that let people save their favourite TV moments so of course it was going to be successful.

High definition DVD simply isn't offering enough more to have mass appeal, not to mention the early versions are not recordable. Joe Bloggs won't kow how to connect it properly, because of the mess over licensing limiting people's connection choices if they want HD or upscaling. Or he'll read the instructions and discover his brand new "HD Ready" TV isn't actually HD ready because although it supports higher resolutions, the manufacturer has decided to save money and not include an HDMI slot.

Retailers are as much to blame as the manufacturers for the confusion though, repeatedly mis-selling stuff to the unclued as HD Ready when clearly it is not.

Finally we have the dreaded format war. If HD-DVD or Blu-Ray is going to be successful then it will be at the expense of the other im sure. If history is anything to go by then not only is the previous statement true, it will be Sony who miss out.

Let's take a look at the list of recent Sony failures:

Betamax (lost to VHS)
Minidisc (Expensive & what's wrong with a CD?)
UMD (ridiculous that this ever saw the light of day, total cash in by Sony)

None of these formats are bad, Minidisc in particular was an excellent format, but none of them appealed to the mass consumer enough to make them popular. Only technology enthusiasts continue to buy Minidisc and UMD. Both formats which only continue to be supported by Sony because of Japanese stubborness not because they are making Sony lots of money.

Anyway I think you have to approach this subject with an open mind, what appeals to all of us on the forums is not the same that appeals to the average consumer. We can all be classed as enthusiasts, why else would we post on such a forum? But judging from the number of arguements on here about the latest technology, then Joe Bloggs doesn't stand a chance in the new age of media.

Only time will tell what happens.
 

Timbo21

Well-known Member
Epicurus said:
Or he'll read the instructions and discover his brand new "HD Ready" TV isn't actually HD ready because although it supports higher resolutions, the manufacturer has decided to save money and not include an HDMI slot.

Retailers are as much to blame as the manufacturers for the confusion though, repeatedly mis-selling stuff to the unclued as HD Ready when clearly it is not.

If it is listed as 'HD Ready' then it has to have the appropriate HDMI connection. The one to watch out for is 'HD Compatible', or similar.
 

Timbo21

Well-known Member
I agree with the OP where it says enthusiasts are getting tired & smarter. I , for one, am (tired that is, not smarter? ;)). But many out there have certainly taken the bait where HDTV's are concerned, & are only just getting into home cinema. I think there are a lot of people out there who want to spend their money on big TV's, & this hobby is very addictive...

I think for many flat panel TV's are a lifestyle purchase, and of course when you get a 43" plasma normal SD DVD can look worse than it did on your old CRT. But many men love all this stuff, & they won't send their TV back, but they will buy Sky HD, & once they hear of HD-DVD they probably will buy it, because they've just got into this rather exciting av past-time. However, these types are still in no way the majority of society, although HDTV's are selling like hot cakes. I would think that perhaps only around 25% of Sky HD subscribers will consider HD players at this tme. So, if Sky have initially sold around 40,000 HD boxes, then I guess at something like 10,000 initial sales of HD-DVD when it's released, maybe less. However, I was quite surprised when a work colleague told me he was contemplating buying an HD-DVD player!

T.
 

sanderton

Active Member
Medium term when HD broadcast TV is widespread, people will demand that the disk equivalent is at least as high quality. DVD has educated people that if they pay £15 for a disk it should be better than what they see broadcast. My DVD purchases have plummetted since SkyHD launched, I resent paying for lower quality.
 

Mr THX

Active Member
steve0 said:
biggest leap to me is the sound quality though.

Maybe its me being behind the door a bit but is there that much difference in 'Dolby true HD 5.1' and your vanilla 5.1 or DTS ??? Not seen any quoted increase in sound quality ??
 
Does anyone remember the old "LaserDisc will win over DVD (Dead, Very Dead)" and "Divx has screwed it all up!" discussions?

"Nobody likes false starts With the debut of HD DVD at an underwhelming 720p/1080i,"

Speaking of false starts - Divx (the failed pay-to-view video disc system, not the video codec). That was the first most of America had ever seen of digital video discs (VCD doesn't count). In fact, seeing as LD wasn't exactly in that many homes, it'd be the first some Americans had seen of movies on a disc at all!

"For Toshiba to release a player that didn't support true HD at 1080p (even though the software does), and with no lossless audio format to accompany the video track, the high definition wave was more of a ripple."

It's a strange move perhaps, but is it really that big a deal when you count the number of 1080p screens out there? Trust your eyes, not numbers. Even if they're not running at their absolute best right now, the first HD-DVD discs by all accounts are huge leaps over the blurry, filtered video transfers on most current DVDs.

"Add to this the delay of HDMI 1.3"

How many people have you heard saying "I'm not going to buy that HD-DVD/DVD/Blu-Ray player. It doesn't have HDMI 1.3"? The people buying this stuff want great picture quality regardless of the technical specifications. The fact that masses of ex-Blu Ray supporters (me included) have defected to a format that at its best is capable of storing 20gb less than Blu-Ray is promised to be capable of - and all because of the fact that the first Blu-Ray transfers aren't good on the eyes - is proof of this.

"The only reason Sony's Playstation, Microsoft's Xbox and the Nintendo GameCube can sell so well simultaneously is because of the prevalence of excellent software titles."

Bad comparison. Games consoles and movies aren't exactly alike. A lot of hardcore gamers would raise an eyebrow at the "excellent software titles" quote as well.

"The high definition DVD formats, however are really just the same source material packaged in two different wrappers- not to provide choice, mind you, but because the two camps simply are too greedy to combine forces"

That part is very true :thumbsup:

"HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology"

I'm not sure about that, but HD-DVD at least is supposedly a quantum leap in picture quality. People who have seen the discs (and next week, that will include me) say that they have never seen such a good quality HD picture.

"Technology and more storage. Is this enough? Not on your life."

I agree. The increase in picture quality is the main catch here, not technology (who honestly cares about Blu-Ray's integrated web links?) and more storage, and this is particularly important with the take-up of LCD and Plasma screens.

Agree regarding conservative studios.

"The problem with this theory is that the PS3 is not being marketed as a home theater component"

The PS3 has not even been released yet so we'll see how SCE choose to market it. I agree that it's unlikely to be done as a home theater component but you can bet that it's not going to be marketed as JUST a gaming machine either even if that is its primary function.

Re: the DVD-A and SACD comparison. I may be in the minority here, but I find eye-catching video to be better at pulling people in than ear-catching sound. In a crowded store anyone can see a high quality video playing on a big screen. But most showrooms in AV/department/electronics stores either drown out sound, and that's if the stores have their CD/DVD-A/SACD players producing sound output in the first place rather than just having the players on display shelves.

"While some home theater audio- and videophiles have the money and inclination to rush out and buy the latest and greatest toys as soon as they are available, many more are becoming more cautious. Burned by 8-track, laserdisc,"

Excuse me? BURNED by LaserDisc? Precisely how is seeing films without constant rippling, blurring, and in their original aspect ratio with sometimes bonus features and director's commentaries not available on the VHS versions, being "burned"?

It's interesting that he mentions LaserDisc as "the latest and greatest" though because when LaserDisc launched in the late 70s (I think), it wasn't called LaserDisc at all. It was called MCA Discovision and the launch was an unmitigated disaster with disc defect rates as high as 95%. When Pioneer came in and rescued it and renamed it "LaserDisc", the format still had a reasonable following in Japan and a dedicated "cult" following (I think that's an OK description) in the US.

"(and possibly soon non-HDCP HDTV)"

Agree entirely with that - been there!

That said, isn't there a "truce period" of a few years that's been agreed, where Component video will still give HD resolutions from earlier titles? It's annoying for sure - but it doesn't stop people enjoying HD-DVD now.

"these war-weary consumers are going to think long and hard before jumping onto any new technological bandwagons."

Actually, this war-weary consumer has just imported an HD-DVD player. 450 pounds (and that's a UK import price) for buggy, but still amazing, new technology. In 2004, that's the same price I paid for a top of the line Pioneer SD-DVD player!

Just to make it clear, I'm not shooting the messenger :) and it was a good read and he DID make some good points, but overall I'm not impressed at all by many of those arguments.
 

steve0

Banned
Mr THX said:
Maybe its me being behind the door a bit but is there that much difference in 'Dolby true HD 5.1' and your vanilla 5.1 or DTS ??? Not seen any quoted increase in sound quality ??

:lesson: Sound is uncompressed Dolby digital Plus . If you read HD DVD reviews all of them say the sound is better than SD DVD

Search from for any HD DVD film review not found one yet that doesnt mention the sound quality through analogue

One quote from doom HD DVD review


The audio on the release presents itself as a full-bodied 5.1 channel Dolby Digital Plus track that is also a powerhouse to say the least. Making aggressive use of the surround channels throughout the audio presentation features a striking clarity and impressive dynamics. From the subtlest ambient effects to the most explosive moments everything is reproduced without any problems while the spatial placement is solid and always makes it possible to properly locate sound sources. Dialogues are well integrated and always understandable despite the powerful sound effects and the music.
 

pjclark1

Well-known Member
Timbo21 said:
If it is listed as 'HD Ready' then it has to have the appropriate HDMI connection. The one to watch out for is 'HD Compatible', or similar.

And here we see the confusion. I was under the impression that "HD Ready" has to have the appropriate HDMI or DVI connection (one that handles HDCP compliant signals)
 
PJClark, that's right. In Europe, the "HD Ready" logo means:

* the display has to have a wide aspect ratio
* at least 720 lines
* HDMI or DVI input with HDCP
* Component video inputs
* Capable of up to 1080i
 

richard plumb

Distinguished Member
that article annoyed me, mainly as it seems to be written to fit its headline. Where do I start?

Nobody likes false starts
I tend to agree, but if you're going to have faltering, do it at the beginning when realistically there are only early adopters and tech websites that notice. HD disc formats at $1000 aren't really on Joe Publics' radar yet.

For Toshiba to release a player that didn’t support true HD at 1080p
irrelevant, and sounds like he's jumping on the paranoia about 1080p without actually stopping and thinking about it. 1080i for movie content is fine if you have a 1080p display and a reasonably good deinterlacer - you aren't losing anything. Video content is more of an issue, but then thats recorded in 1080i anyway.

Format Wars Don’t Sell Players
Agreed, but lets revisit that in 12-18 months to see where we are. They can just about afford to have a scrap early on. (yes, I know its annoying for us early adopters that want to jump in)


HD DVD and Blu-ray are NOT Quantum Leaps in Technology
Yes they are. His argument that CD and DVD were driven primarily for convenience I'll agree with, but thats not technology, so his comparisons don't match his bullet point.

HD discs are there to deliver content tuned to the sets that people are buying now. Over the natural replacement cycle, all sets will be HD very quickly, simply because its difficult to buy a non HD Ready set at lounge sizes (26"+)


Studios are Conservative, Greedy and Unmotivated
Greedy yes, but unmotivated no.

Greed will mean they'll jump on new formats - look how quickly UMD on PSP ramped up when it took off.

And studios are starting to be quite aggressive in doing deals for digital distribution of content. They see dollar signs, they get motivated quickly.



Playstation3 Cannot Save the World
I agree with the bullet point, but his examples are crazy. Average age of gamers is around 28 now (possibly older) and consoles are definitely in the lounge.
Combine that with HD and 5.1 sound, and consoles will be part of the machinery that is driving people to upgrade their lounge displays and sound systems.
Its not all 8 year old spotty kids playing Donkey Kong anymore.


People Want Technology that’s 15 Minutes Ahead of Its Time
What is this guy on? Especially in the US, where average screen sizes are very large, HD is definitely a big step up from SD, and from DVD. Doesn't matter how clever your TV is at scaling.
And anyway, its all about marketing. You just bought a HD TV because the salesman sold you on its potential. So you upgraded your cable package to include HD sports. Now you can buy a disc player that'll take advantage of your set too. Lovely.



Enthusiasts Are Getting Tired (and Smarter)
Yes, but enthusiasts will buy two. Or wait and jump on the one they think will win as soon as they see a slight leader. We might be smarter, but we still have more money than sense.


Broadband and IPTV to Compete?
Eventually, but not that quickly. How can he be so bullish about downloads when in an earlier point he mentioned how HTPCs aren't getting into homes. It'll take IPTV based boxes with push content for downloads to really take off, and that'll take a long time just to get the penetration needed.

Its not like music, which is about quantity and portability (quality taking a step down from CD). I'm not going to watch a movie on my PC screen. And even those of us who do have PCs connected to our projectors are very much in the minority
 

MartinImber

Active Member
Epicurus said:
Let's take a look at the list of recent Sony failures:

Betamax (lost to VHS)
Minidisc (Expensive & what's wrong with a CD?)
UMD (ridiculous that this ever saw the light of day, total cash in by Sony)

UMD is silly but Minidisc is a fantastic format for recording and editing, I still use it, easiest way to get to listen to LPs in the car. As to Beta - I still use it!!!!
 

MartinImber

Active Member
Hmm Hidef

No Terrestrial
Satellite is £40 per month
Two disc formats with one good film on one and two on the other, none of my favourite brands have released a player, (Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic ect)

It is stunning but difficult to get.

I am sure my first move to HD will be via a video camera
 

Faust

Well-known Member
Hallelujah, at last a sensible poster. That is the best and most reasoned argument I have ever heard against this irrelevant and stupid format war (I say Hallelujah to the original poster). I don't play games etc. never have and never likely to, I am what you might call an average consumer who likes his Plasma t.v. plus his 5.1 surround sound Sky+ etc. etc. The manufacturers seem to have learnt nothing since the VHS Betamax war (which we were promised at the time would never happen again) and won by the inferior technology. I have seen Sky's new HD service plus lots of demos - yes it's sharp and clear but so is SD, or at least it is on my Panny Plasma and I think the only way I could be persuaded to have Hi Def is if it was free. Now as someone who likes their big boys toys, if that is how I feel then what about Mr and Mrs Joe Public? It really is a non starter for all but the enthusiasts - Joe Public is not going to buy into this new technology anytime soon, mark my words. As the poster said at the start, it does not offer any significant benefits over the hardware that most people have only recently bought into.
 
S

Sir_Baron

Guest
Faust said:
Hallelujah, at last a sensible poster. That is the best and most reasoned argument I have ever heard against this irrelevant and stupid format war (I say Hallelujah to the original poster). I don't play games etc. never have and never likely to, I am what you might call an average consumer who likes his Plasma t.v. plus his 5.1 surround sound Sky+ etc. etc. The manufacturers seem to have learnt nothing since the VHS Betamax war (which we were promised at the time would never happen again) and won by the inferior technology. I have seen Sky's new HD service plus lots of demos - yes it's sharp and clear but so is SD, or at least it is on my Panny Plasma and I think the only way I could be persuaded to have Hi Def is if it was free. Now as someone who likes their big boys toys, if that is how I feel then what about Mr and Mrs Joe Public? It really is a non starter for all but the enthusiasts - Joe Public is not going to buy into this new technology anytime soon, mark my words. As the poster said at the start, it does not offer any significant benefits over the hardware that most people have only recently bought into.

If you truly believe that then i'm glad i do not own your plasma :rolleyes:.

Not trying to be a ass, but my HD-DVD player looks absoluting amazing on my Panasonic AE900 Projector, and i tried it on my older tv (which my parents now use in the livingroom) the Sagem Axium 50" (first modle DLP without the HDCP) and it looked amazing on there.

Family was all like damn this film (chronicles of Riddick) looks miles better then the DVD version.

It's not just a small jump in picture quality, it's a large jump that and the sound is better too.

Eventually DVD players will be phased out and replaced with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray dvd players. Will take a couple of years but if they want technology to progress they WILL phase DVD out. Just like how they are phasing non HDTV's out.
 

Nic Rhodes

Distinguished Member
I think the original post is both inacurate in many places and out of date. I have yet to see anyone I have been with see HD DVD and not be impressed, it is a major jump over over previous HD formats (my big fear) on audio and video characteristics and the quality of both the hardware and particualrly the software is excellent and cheap, more than be said for the competiton currently on both counts. BR lacklustre disc mastering, expensive players and a perfromance currently not as good as HD DVD at twice the price.
 

Faust

Well-known Member
Sir_Baron said:
If you truly believe that then i'm glad i do not own your plasma :rolleyes:.

Not trying to be a ass, but my HD-DVD player looks absoluting amazing on my Panasonic AE900 Projector, and i tried it on my older tv (which my parents now use in the livingroom) the Sagem Axium 50" (first modle DLP without the HDCP) and it looked amazing on there.

Family was all like damn this film (chronicles of Riddick) looks miles better then the DVD version.

It's not just a small jump in picture quality, it's a large jump that and the sound is better too.

Eventually DVD players will be phased out and replaced with HD-DVD or Blu-Ray dvd players. Will take a couple of years but if they want technology to progress they WILL phase DVD out. Just like how they are phasing non HDTV's out.

Well yes I do truly believe that, and if my SD PQ is so good (which it is) why would you not want to own my Panny Plasma? I don't wish to be impertinent by asking your age but I grew up with 2 channel Black and White t.v. that shut down at midnight with the epilogue. For me the arrival of colour t.v. was a huge step forward followed by multi-channel t.v. and given the PQ of present SD from Sky or Freeview I see no reason for changing the excellent broadcasts I watch now for even sharper clearer pictures and sound. As I said previously I have seen Sky's new Hi Def service at a friends house only a couple of days ago, and yes it looks good but does it look good enough for me to spend another £300 plus an extra £10 per month on top of the already high subscription rates? not on your life. The same goes for Hi Def DVD - the only people likely to buy into them in the short term are enthusiasts or gamers, you'd have to be mad to buy into a technology in the middle of a format war. I'm a bit to wise (or long in the tooth) to be taken in by hype.
 

Welwynnick

Distinguished Member
Faust said:
I don't wish to be impertinent by asking your age but I grew up with 2 channel Black and White t.v. that shut down at midnight with the epilogue.
I vividly remember the dark days of BD 1983 (before digital) when people were making similar arguements about the devil that was CD. In fact the flat earth society was even more strongly opposed to new technology, and completely ignored the possibility that mastering, software and hardware would climb a quick learning curve and get much better and much cheaper. Good CD players perform well, and so will BD & HD DVD players - the jury hasn't even come in yet, so give it just a little time.

Nick
 

Faust

Well-known Member
welwynnick said:
I vividly remember the dark days of BD 1983 (before digital) when people were making similar arguements about the devil that was CD. In fact the flat earth society was even more strongly opposed to new technology, and completely ignored the possibility that mastering, software and hardware would climb a quick learning curve and get much better and much cheaper. Good CD players perform well, and so will BD & HD DVD players - the jury hasn't even come in yet, so give it just a little time.

Nick

It's not really a question of giving it a little time. A good scenario would be are you happy with your present car or would you like something even more expensive with even more whistles and bells. For me at least I am more than happy with my present vehicle and if the technology never moved beyond what it is now then I would still be happy. Sometimes things are just right and change isn't always for the better. SD PQ on my 42" PX60 is just about perfect and I want for nothing else, I am what you might call contented and there's a great deal to be said for that.
 

m1ket

Well-known Member
the main reason for me is that you dont just need a new player but also a new tv, this was not the case with dvd
 

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