1 or 2 subs?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by SpuddybabyUK, Dec 31, 2018.


    1. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      So I am building my own dedicated home cinema.
      It’s not going to be huge, the room is only 3x4 metres.
      I’ve currently got some b&w 683 s2, the matching centre (can’t remember the model), b&w m1s and 4 b&w ceiling speakers.
      (Note that the room is still being built som they are all still in boxes :( )
      These will all be powered by a Denon 4400 (along with power amps for the extra channels)
      I have an old Mirage subwoofer, must have had it for 15 years and it’s a great little speaker, and has nothing wrong with it.
      I was thinking of upgrading it to something a bit newer and smaller, maybe the B&W ASW608 as it’s on sale at the moment.
      But seeing as I am building a dedicated room would it be worth buying two of them, or would one be enough?
       
    2. andym81

      andym81
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 13, 2016
      Messages:
      446
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      28
      Location:
      GB
      Ratings:
      +82
      2 is alway better than 1. Depending on you budget I'd avoid that sub and check out BK subwoofer
       
    3. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      What’s the BK subwoofer?
      Budget is around £6-800 I think depending on how the rest of the build goes . And paying to take the wife to Barbados in May!
       
    4. Fella55

      Fella55
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 7, 2006
      Messages:
      324
      Products Owned:
      1
      Products Wanted:
      1
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Surrey
      Ratings:
      +119
    5. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      Thanks, I’ll take a look.
      Was also looking at these as well...
      REL HT1003
       
    6. Abacus

      Abacus
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 19, 2015
      Messages:
      642
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      67
      Location:
      Torbay
      Ratings:
      +423
      B.K. Electronics Homepage


      Definitely go for 2 if you can as it spreads the sound out much better as well as giving a greater integration with the room.

      If movies are your primary pleasure then go with a down firing sub, however if you listen to music (Or a combination) then I find a forward facing sub sounds best. (Everybody has their own preferences though)

      NOTE: apart from the expensive models Denon’s are a bit naff with music, so if you are going for music as well as films check out other receiver’s, otherwise the Denon will be fine. (Just don’t rely on the on-board room correction as this will need tweaking to get the best sound)

      Bill
       
    7. veedub

      veedub
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Dec 12, 2016
      Messages:
      37
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      11
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +4
      The XTZ 12.17 Edge would be another potential option? They certainly seem to be good value.

      The linked review below is for the non-Edge version of the 12.17, the newer Edge amp has more power at 700W.

      XTZ SUB 12.17 Subwoofer Review
       
    8. Gasp3621

      Gasp3621
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 16, 2014
      Messages:
      1,540
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Ratings:
      +732
      Definitely something other than those B&Ws or speaker manufacturer overpriced subs! Would limit otherwise nice system.

      @richardsim7 has a lovely 3,3m x 2,5m dedicated HT room which has dual 15" DIY sealed subs!
      Mini 7.2.4 Home Cinema (smallest ever?)

      You can get BK XXLS400 for same price delivered as the smaller REL. I`m quite sure if you choose basic satin black there will be two of them available by calling there. That would be 800£ delivered for duals! These are new with full warranty, no marks found by members.
      BK XXLS400-DF Satin Black Subwoofer Grade B 5060403220363 | eBay

      Another option would be to start with one better sub like Arendal Sub1 and add second later in future when funds allow. Sub1 won`t take much space width wise (33,5cm). I think the price delivered to UK is approx 800£. We have members who have upgraded from BK XXLS400 and it has been noticeable upgrade.
      Arendal Sound 1723 Subwoofer 1


      Sub1; Dimensions with rubber cones 49.2H x 33.5W x 45D cm

      XXLS400
      DF: Dimensions: 400D x 460H x 400W
      FF: Dimensions: 450D x 400H x 400W
       
    9. miguelbarroso

      miguelbarroso
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 6, 2004
      Messages:
      274
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Lisbon - PORTUGAL
      Ratings:
      +66
      I would go with 2 P12-300SB... or as @Gasp3621 suggested, 1 better sub like the Arendal or something like that

      EDIT: since it's mainly a movie setup, the P12-300PR might be a better option.
       
      Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    10. Graham

      Graham
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Nov 21, 2000
      Messages:
      1,169
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      113
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +553
      I agree with the above on the XLS400 - I got two from the colossusXB store on eBay - supposedly seconds but they both looked pretty much immaculate. With today’s 10% off at eBay you’re looking at £360 for one of them. Great subs!
       
    11. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      Yes it’s definitely going to be primarily a movie/games/sports events room, so listening to music won’t really happen often.
      My 683 are pretty good for music anyway, they were in the demo that I had so I’ll be happy with them I think if I ever do.
      Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, I’ll have a shop round today and see what I can buy...
       
    12. Andy98765

      Andy98765
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 15, 2006
      Messages:
      10,469
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      133
      Ratings:
      +1,362
      I do not get it, you have a 9 channel 200 watts per channel AV amp with large B&W floor standers in a 3x4 room and are looking for 2xsubs?
      Have you had your hearing checked lately.
      I have 685's and a 608 sub and I can do serious damage on the volume front and my kit sits in 35 sq metres of space driven by a Marantz SR7007.
      Can I suggest you finish building your room, move those monoliths in and check the sound levels, the 683's would normally need 0.5 metre space from any side wall to start with.
       
    13. miguelbarroso

      miguelbarroso
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 6, 2004
      Messages:
      274
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Lisbon - PORTUGAL
      Ratings:
      +66
      2 subs are not only meant to provide more power, but more controlled bass.
      Besides, a good subwoofer will provide sub-bass that the 683's can't (those sounds below 35Hz).

      And following the advice from Audissey (and a lot of HC specialists), for movies the speakers should all be set with a crossover of 80Hz (60Hz if you like, for the 683's) and let the subs do the hard work (your receiver will thank that)
       
    14. Andy98765

      Andy98765
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 15, 2006
      Messages:
      10,469
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      133
      Ratings:
      +1,362
      Understand what you say, it is the size of the room that I question, next we will know the 3x4 is in a terrace house or semi? No one needs that sort of sound reinforcement in such a small space. Great bit of kit
       
    15. Gasp3621

      Gasp3621
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 16, 2014
      Messages:
      1,540
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Ratings:
      +732
      To be clear B&W 608 and 610XP are towared more for music systems. The latter was reviewed and measured by Josh Ricci (industry's leading and independent subwoofer tester). Fine for small room with low to moderate volume levels. Poor output & extension. So we can assume the 608 with even smaller driver and cabinet plus more than half less power on amp is quite limited performance wise. Likely fine for casual apartment use, but for dedicated space something more capable should be prefered.
      B&W ASW 610XP Subwoofer Review
      Why Go Dual Subwoofers?

      Intresting choice of speakers for small room. As Andy said they need good amount of space surely. Side walls will likely be very close, but try to push them forward leaving good amount of space behind speakers and wall. Here is one B&W 684 dedicated HT build which has small room. More pictures on comments.
      From the Forums: DIY Garage Home Cinema Conversion
       
    16. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101

      No we are a detached house. Couldn’t be that unkind to neighbours if we were in a terraced!
       
    17. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      Funny you say interesting choice as myself and the wife demod them along with a pair of bookshelf b&w speakers and she wanted them at double the price. I was thinking they might be too much but I though I don’t need to have them mega loud just enough to enjoy films. Plus they will sound better than the bookshelf speaker, more so when I get some room treatment in there too
       
    18. veedub

      veedub
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Dec 12, 2016
      Messages:
      37
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      11
      Location:
      UK
      Ratings:
      +4
      The 683’s will be ideal - even in a small room they are very good, I’ve gone from a set of Monitor Audio Bronze bookshelf’s to B&W’s 683’s on stereo duties - the difference is massive, far more depth and detail, even when they don’t have a lot of room.

      Eventually my 683’s will be going into the frontal array on a 7.2.4 setup, but that will be once the room is built.

      Interesting and helpful reading the suggestions here, subwoofers are on my list of things to get in the next few months.
       
      Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    19. Andy98765

      Andy98765
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Feb 15, 2006
      Messages:
      10,469
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      133
      Ratings:
      +1,362
      Your wife choose them, fair play mate. Most women want the tiny speaker that can be hidden behind a photo frame, i.e. not see.
       
    20. THX1138UK

      THX1138UK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 4, 2011
      Messages:
      152
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      47
      Location:
      East Yorkshire, UK
      Ratings:
      +163

      I find that two subwoofers provide a more well balanced sound, and also provide visual symmetry - especially in a dedicated space. But if your budget is limited, I would buy one good subwoofer over two not so good ones, and look to supplement it with another one at a later date.

      As long as you get a powered subwoofer with a dedicated LFE input, you’ll have no trouble driving it from any AVR.

      I prefer to get a sub from the same manufacturer as my speakers, but if this isn’t a concern for you, then you may also want to consider SVS. Get a sub that ‘fits’ the room sonically - you want something that blends in and it certainly doesn’t have to be huge to deliver well managed, solid bass.

      Regards,
      James.
       
    21. norliss

      norliss
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Sep 7, 2006
      Messages:
      1,370
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      66
      Location:
      Cardiff
      Ratings:
      +197
      2subs.jpg
       
      • Funny Funny x 7
      • Like Like x 1
      • Love Love x 1
      • List
    22. QUIKSTER

      QUIKSTER
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jun 1, 2006
      Messages:
      335
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      21
      Ratings:
      +18
      I have two SVS PB1000's placed either end of the room running of a Denon 4300.

      My room is 5m x 4m and the SVS seem to give an even spread of low end bass throughout the room.
       
    23. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      Yes, I couldn’t believe it. I’d almost paid before she finished saying the words!
       
    24. Jeek

      Jeek
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Oct 22, 2006
      Messages:
      44
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      8
      Ratings:
      +10
      Can I ask what power amp you're thinking of getting? Have you considered using a decent stereo amp to power the two fronts for music? I'll be setting up a similar system soon (slightly bigger room) and I'm considering the Denon 4400H/4500H with an external amp or going for the 6400H/6500H. One option might be to spend the difference on a decent stereo amp for music.
       
    25. THX1138UK

      THX1138UK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Nov 4, 2011
      Messages:
      152
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      47
      Location:
      East Yorkshire, UK
      Ratings:
      +163
      I have a Denon X6200W - I drive a 5.1.2 KEF R series speaker system. The Denon AVRs have plenty of power and I drive the front R300 speakers without sub-woofers engage for music. All my music is Flac based (at least 16 bit, 44.1 kHz) played from a computer. I use an external DAC (AudioQuest DragonFly).

      But I'm toying with the idea of getting a separate amplifier for two channel audio - I think it will make quite a difference for music. I still want to be able to use the Denon X6200W for movies/surround sound, but then just drive the front speakers from a separate amplifier for music. I'm thinking about the 'Sprout100' integrated amplifier with DAC from PS Audio, but there's very few dealers on this side of the Atlantic that stock it.

      But I'll need a solution to for switching my front speakers between two amplifiers...


      Regards,
      James.
       
      Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
    26. Gasp3621

      Gasp3621
      Well-known Member

      Joined:
      Jan 16, 2014
      Messages:
      1,540
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      116
      Ratings:
      +732
      @gibbsy has same speakers and receiver with you plus stereo amplifier. Maybe he has some ideas for you plus share some experience. :)
       
    27. SpuddybabyUK

      SpuddybabyUK
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jan 8, 2017
      Messages:
      219
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      Location:
      Kent
      Ratings:
      +101
      I’ve bought two Cambridge audio topaz am5 stereo amps that I am going to use to power the 4 Atmos speakers, leaving the Denon to power the fronts and satellites.
      (Yes I know the amp runs 9 channels but this will lighten the load on the Amp by only using 7 channels)
      I don’t foresee myself really doing any music listening to be honest, it’s going to be a movie room first and foremost. Then sports and gaming.
      Well that’s how I am going to set it up and then once the speakers have been run in a bit I might try and see what it sounds like with the fronts connected to the amps instead
       
    28. gibbsy

      gibbsy
      Moderator

      Joined:
      May 17, 2007
      Messages:
      12,389
      Products Owned:
      3
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      166
      Location:
      Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
      Ratings:
      +6,702
      I use a Rega Elicit-R to drive the front R300s using it's HT by-pass function to integrate into the 5.1.2 system with my Denon 6200. If you don't want to use the sub for music the Elicit has a terrific controlled bass with the 300s. Notes are notes, beginning and ending, fast and agile. Absolutely love the combination of Elicit and 300s for music. The Elicit also shines on the control of the shrill highs of Joni Mitchell.

      As for using with the 6200 for movies it's a simple connection via the front pre-outs. All you have to do is connect with the Elicit's dedicated direct RCA inputs and engage it from the direct button on the remote. Works beautifully.

      No DAC in the Elicit and I only use my Marantz SACD player for music.
       
    29. Jeek

      Jeek
      Standard Member

      Joined:
      Oct 22, 2006
      Messages:
      44
      Products Owned:
      0
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      8
      Ratings:
      +10
      Are there any budget amps with HT pass-through? I'm thinking I'll probably get a cheapo amp to begin with for two of the atmos speakers then consider upgrading for something more serious in future if I find myself listening to more music.

      Regarding the original question, I'll probably go for one better sub right now and prioritise the placement for my own seating position (if I can) as the rest of the family don't care as much about AV quality. I'd think it would be better to get the one decent sub and get a second matching one down the line if you feel like you need to. If it was a dedicated HT with lots of seating options then maybe it'd be a different matter.
      I'll probably go for a BK Mono or p12-300sb-pr.
       
    30. miguelbarroso

      miguelbarroso
      Active Member

      Joined:
      Jul 6, 2004
      Messages:
      274
      Products Owned:
      2
      Products Wanted:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      31
      Location:
      Lisbon - PORTUGAL
      Ratings:
      +66
      @Jeek, for Atmos duties you can buy a small power amp, like a Rotel RBsomething or similar - you can find them cheap in classifieds or ebay.
       

    Share This Page

    Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice