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1:1 on AE200 with Vodoo & screen border info?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Tempest, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Got a funny story (not for me) to post later (if have time) about me getting a sheet 8x4 feet of hardboard back from the diy store in my car.

    Anyway, just got it on my wall now (nailed quickly up) and as my Radeon 9600 has not arrived yet I have a quick question:

    I have powerstrip 3.3 running on my Voodoo 5500 graphics card.
    Are there any powerstrip settings I can use for this card to give me 1:1 pixel matching on my Voodoo 5500 on a Pannie AE200 ?

    Secondly AND very importantly I NEED to urgently know something from someone running their Radion 9600 on an EA200 with Powerstrip and 1:1 setup

    I need to fit some black boarders around my screen, and am worried about the width of the actual PC output.

    I was just going to just run the AE200 with it's blue menu background (no signal) and fit my black frame surrounds up to the very edge pixel all the way round.

    BUT I don't know when driven via a PC it will actually give the same size display.

    OK, I know the height will vary depending on what DVD you are playing. But what about the width.

    When fed from my Voodoo the left of the screen is the same as the menu blue edge but the right is 1 pixel within the menu size.

    I need urgent info so I can fit this thing up.

    Many thanks
     
  2. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    I run an AE100 with a Radeon VE at 856x480 ( 60Hz) for 1:1 pixel mapping.
    Ae200 should be the same in this regard with the PC priority on wide.

    The blue background screen should be an accurate indicator of the size of the picture when utilising the full panel ( which is what 1:1 mapping will do).

    To be honest if you get the room dark you'll be able to see the extent of the panel with no input anyway. ( black isn't black on these babies)
     
  3. The Nightfly

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    Hi Tempest,

    You'll have to upgrade your version of Powerstrip to 3.42 (or higher) for it to work with the Radeon 9600. Prior versions won't work with this card. When I got my 9600 (non-pro) about 4 months ago I had to wait until EnTech brought out a version that addressed the graphics engine correctly before I could use Powerstrip.

    Allan
     
  4. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Oh poo.

    Thank's for the info though Allan...
    Saved me some messing around that has hopefully....
     
  5. Tempest

    Tempest
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    I guess there must be something not 100% between the Voodoo 5500 and my Powerstrip.

    I had written down that I should ideally be running in 856x480 at 60hz so I simply went into powerstrips custom mode area where you tell it the exact x and y res you want and the refresh rate.
    Saved it, and it appeared to work.

    Though it was rather nasty, and was not the full width of the screen and quite low res with the windows icon text a bit here and there as there were not enough pixels for each text charater.
    It was pretty nasty basically.

    Either I need to be a bit more techincal in my settings in Powerstrip, or the Voodoo 5500 just can't do the mode and it was a kind of fudge.

    I currently have my screen/white hardboard on the wall (slightly larger than the displayed screen from the AE200) and have some masking tape lined up exactly with the very edge of the BLUE background screen.....

    As I said I was worried about putting my boarder/frame right up against this blue edge incase when runing 1:1 with my radeon (WHEN IT FINALLY ARRIVES - Bloody Xmas Post!!!!!) in case the Radeon does not actually use every single pixel (width wise at least)

    But as you say, if the Radeon 9600 can 1:1 pixel match the AE200 panel and use exactly the same full area the blue menu/background does, then I can fit my frame without worries.
     
  6. Kramer

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    If the PJ shows it's receiving "Wide 480" (assuming it is the same as the AE100), then run "Autoset" or manually adjust dot clock/ phase.

    Use the DILA test pattern (link in FAQ) to check it's OK.

    :smoke:
     
  7. Kramer

    Kramer
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    BTW, I've changed your thread title to something more appropriate.
     
  8. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Doesn't the Radeon have a default setting of 856 x 480? I'm sure I saw it in the drop down list when I was looking through...

    Gary.
     
  9. theritz

    theritz
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    Gary,

    Maybe 848x480 - I know that's there as a standard.........


    Tempest - there's something fishy there........ do a search, find Hoglet's post with instructions on how to do 1:1, make sure PJ in in "Wide" mode... and you should be right.


    Sean G.
     
  10. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Ah yes, you might be right...
     
  11. Kramer

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    He is you know :eek:

    :)
     
  12. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thank's for that........
    I've not fiddled with any of these things yet.

    I only really set up powerstrip on my Voodoo 5500 as a sort of test. I didn't actually expect it to work as all the talk on here has been powerstrip and Radeons.

    Cheers for all the advice on this.
    Roll on my 9600 arriving. (Been in the post since Tuesday and cos of xmas post still waiting for it)

    Will be interesting to see just how much better it is than my Voodoo cos to be honest the Voodoo is not bad really. Running Via Power DVD 5.0
     
  13. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Have found Hoglets post and the test images etc etc...

    I just have 1 query about his instructions and perhaps you (or someone else) can clear up my 1 puzzlement.

    His instructions all talk about 856 x 480

    But isn't the AE100 and AE200 panel 858x484 ???

    Or am I wrong and it's only the AE200 that has this fractional few more pixels ?
     
  14. theritz

    theritz
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    Tempest,

    Yes indeedy.......... if you check the manual for the AE200, it should show (in the chart of resolutions and signals accepted) that 856x480 is recognised as wide480 and is classified as "AA" quality........ what happens to the other 2 pixels, I hear you think................. buggered if I know (or care...), it works a treat and should do the same on the AE200.

    The following exctract from the list of compatible signals in the manual may help:


    WIDE480: 856 x 480 30.057 60.114 31.500 AA PC

    The numbers above indicate the following:
    Display resolution (dots)
    Scanning frequency H (kHz) V (Hz)
    Dot clock frequency (MHz)
    Picture quality*
    Format

    *The following symbols are used to indicate picture quality.
    AA Maximum picture quality can be obtained.
    A Signals are converted by the image processing circuit before picture
    is projected
    B Some loss of data occurs to make projection easier




    All the best,

    Sean G.
     
  15. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Oh GOD.......... Why do you hate me so ?

    Guess what:

    My Sapphire Radeon 9600 non pro (as recommended on here) finally arrived today. YEAH !!!! :)

    Took case apart, pulled out my old Voodoo 5500 and went to plug in my new card, hmm, that's funny, does not seem to want to push down into the slot......?

    Hmmmm, have a closer look....

    Ummmm, that groove in the AGP slot is not in the right place to line up with my new card

    IT WONT FIT.... !

    ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!! :(

    Never even considered this one or knew there were PHYSICAL differences between AGP slots.
    I know we have heard about 2x, 4x, 8x etc etc but never considered there was any physical change to the slot.

    Talked about Voodoo and Radions and never heard any whiff from anyon about slots.

    Oh dam, blast and other words which I'm not allowed to say here.
    Voodoo back in the machine now.
    Oh jesus, give me strength.

    Now what ?

    Any ideas ?

    I have a 1.4Ghz machine with 512MB Ram running DVD's fine with PowerDVD 5 at about 50% CPU loading.

    By the way, my Motherboard is the VERY well known Abit BX6 Rev2.0
     
  16. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    Are you sure tempest. AGP slots should be identical. Have you inspected the two cards pin connections next to each other. They should be the same.

    Just had a look at you board. Looks fairly normal to me...
     
  17. Tempest

    Tempest
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  18. Tempest

    Tempest
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    This issue has been sorted now thank's to someone else on another forum, so I shall explain here as it may stop someone else falling into the same trap.

    Apparently my Mboard's AGP slot is a 3.5volt slot, and it has this keyway in it to identify this.

    Many modern AGP cards are just 1.5 volt and have a notch somewhere else.

    They cannot be plugged together as My mboard would supply too much voltage to the new card and blow it.

    News is, you can't get a convertor (power reducer) so a new Mboard looks like is needed to run a modern Radeon card.

    Ho hum.......................
     
  19. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Back to the original topic of this thread:

    Running a Voodoo 5 5500 on a pannie ae200 at 1:1 pixel mapping.

    Well I've followed the instructions on this forum for using powerstrip to create a custom mode, setting the pannie to 480 wide and also running the test image (dots and lines)

    The method described (pasting in the line from the clipboard) didn't quite seem to work for me, but I used powerstrips custom mode adjustment boxes to create the same mode.
    I managed to get all the settings correct.
    the scanning frequency figures were very near horizontal and vertical all this with a 60hz refresh rate.

    Anyway, got this new mode running and also ran that test image and it was dead on perfect and clear with no adjustments needed.

    My Pc's windows XP is displayed solid as a rock and as clear as a bell. VERY impressive, ah ha cracked it I thought.

    But I seem to have 1 little problem I'm hoping someone here may be able to help with.

    When playing a DVD via Power DVD 5 if the film has slow moving images on screen or static images it's a clear and rock solid as you could want.

    However, if something moves fast, I get horizontal breaks, like sync tears on the image.

    Say on monsters inc.
    Th background is solid, and that big blue furry one is moving slowely it's perfect, then he jumps around, and just over HIM (not the background) you can see random split second black horizontal breaks, flickering here and there over the fast action.

    Looks like on a old game where the graphics were being redrawn during the frame being displayed. But don't see why this effect is only on the bit that's moving fast and not on the slow stuff.
     
  20. Kramer

    Kramer
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    cyberheater,

    I'm assuming you don't have permission to link to that m/board picture so I've removed it.

    Linking to pictures without permission is not permitted - see rule 9.
     
  21. Tempest

    Tempest
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    In his defence, he was only trying to help me, and it was a help.
    I didn't know this either, so I could have been just as guilty.

    Anyhow, the problem is solved now (as posted above) in that my Mboard won't take the new Radeon that's just arrived today due to the radeon being a AGP 1.5v card and my Mboard having a 3.5 volt only AGP socket.

    You'd have thought there would be an adaptor which plugged between the two and just dropped the voltage down, but no matter how hard I'd tried to search I can't find anything.

    So it looks like a new motherboard (ho hum) or running with My Voodoo and sending the Radeon back.

    To be honest, (forgetting anything anyone may say against the Voodoo, my 5500 is giving a lovely picture, and I'd be supprised in the Radeon could be THAT much better really.)

    But, being the expert you are (buttering up mode on!)
    Have you got any thoughts about my tearing issue on fast moving picture areas on my previous posting ?

    I think I have 1:1 working fine, and all the settings are correct.
    Powerstrip is setup as per 1:1 panny instructions, the only figures that are not otally 100% are the horitontal and vertical, ummm, something figures !!!!

    You know, there ones where it says something like, it should be 35.0256 +- something.
    Mine is just outside the range on these two.
    I can make then just outside the range on the plus side of the minus side. But dunno if that's got any relation to my problem.

    It's a lovely picture. Just a shame when it moves fast things are a bit stuttery and tear a bit.

    Slow and static images are perfect.

    Any thoughts oh great one :hiya:
     
  22. theritz

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    Tempest.....


    Don't see why this should be the case........ my advice is to try again - it's dead simple, just type in the string quoted in hoglet's post into notepad/whatever, copy the text, and use the paste function in powerstrip - you'll see the relevant numbers go into their little boxes. There is a chance that whatever numbers you've put in are causing the tearing - I've never had tearing with 1:1 on the AE100 - and never seen reports of it here or on avs.....

    Have another crack at it.... you could try turning off hardware acceleration to see if you've got some weird issue from the Voodoo card, I guess, but I'd be v. surprised if that was the culprit - I reckon you've got something funny in the resolution numbers - they should match the ones posted here (umpteen times) perfectly.

    See ya,

    Sean G.
     
  23. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Cheers Theritz.

    I guess I just find it odd that the display of my Windows desktop is 100% clear, rock solid, no patterning etc etc
    Also static and slow moving images from a DVD are the same, but tearing only occurs on quick moving images.

    I have tried the hardware acceleration but made no difference.
    To be honest I'm pointing the finger at Powerdvd 5 a bit right now.

    The trouble I had with the cut and paste was that straight after I had to reboot and apon reboot that mode was gone and I was back to square 1.

    I did have a setup I made the previous day (Using powerstrips sliders and options) and the figures all matched what they should be...

    Everything looks 100% apart from the afformentioned tearing.

    I'm very tempted to try Theatretech and just see if the problem goes away.

    Just
    1: I'd like to try it before I buy
    2: I don't know how well it works or supports voodoo cards
     
  24. Goof

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    Actually, not to disagree with you Sean ;) but I initially used the posted Powerstrip timings with my AE200 and 9700 and got tearing.

    I then used an alternative set of timings found on Mark Goldie's site and though they were a bit of a bugger to input correctly, they work a treat!
     
  25. theritz

    theritz
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    Goof,

    Happy to be corrected....... no problem; If the numbers on Mark's site are the one's to use than that's useful info for other AE200 members.


    Sean.
     
  26. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks for this.....
    Will try these as soon as I can & will report back.

    Great stuff all this, like I'm an explorer.....
    I'm sure I'll get there eventually.

    Be nice if all this kinda stuff could be collected into one place.

    Again, cheers.
     
  27. Goof

    Goof
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    That's ok Tempest, no problem :)

    Sean, no, I don't think the other set of timings are out and out wrong - they seem to work for a lot of other people, guess me and tempest were just unlucky!
     
  28. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Ok then........

    been there are done that........

    I have tried both sets of figures.
    I can get all the values DEAD on apart from the 3 sync values, you know, the refresh rate, horz sync and vert sync.

    I can get then VERY near, eg if it says 29.002 I can get 28.995 or 29.012 (these are not the values but just to show I am very near)

    Anyway, the other figures are dead on.

    The results.

    With BOTH the original settings, and these new (alternate) settings there is no difference.

    New news: As I was suspecting PowerDVD 5 as poss the trouble, I have now also got TheatreTek.

    So with both types of settings and both players.

    Guess what.

    Yup, absolutly zero difference.
    To be honest I can't see any difference in quality (yet) between PowerDVD 5 and TheatreTek They are both giving an exellent picture quality but both suffer from the same problems.

    Let me try to explain the two effects I can see.

    1: fine black horiztonal tears in anything that's FAST moving.

    An example, in the film Vertical Limit, the film starts with a shot looking down on the ground moving forwards very fast.
    The fast moving lower area has narrow (say 1 scan line) black lines, not all the way across the screen, just like a flicker hear and there, like a sync thing as if the image is being redrawn in the middle of the frame.
    Its the same as you used to get with old PC graphics when they were not synced to the monitor display. But this only happens in fast moving parts which is what I don't get.
    I mean, you have a clean background, with something moving fast, which gets the tears in it, but there are no tears anywhere else on the screen only in the area that's fast moving.

    I think that's just about explained it.

    2: A sort or ripple effect on full screen pans.

    The same film (Vertical Limit)

    Again, at the very start, The camera pans up from looking at the ground and pans up towards the mountains.
    During this slow pan up the red/orange mountainside rather than a rock smooth pan, it sort of has a ripple in the image, almost as it it's panning in stages, there are no breaks in the image, so the best way i can describe it is to say a ripple, say about 5 or 6 ripples over the full height of the screen.

    Rather annoying all of this, as apart from this it's a cracking picture.
     
  29. Goof

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    Well, if it hasn't been mentioned already, I'd first be turning off all unecessary applications (ie. internet connection, virus scanner, and all the other crap - I always do this when watching films, go through task manager too).

    Then I'd check the gfx properties by right clicking on the desktop>settings>advanced and making sure Antialiasing etc are turned off.

    Are you using WinXP? Is a reinstall possible? Also, is AGPx2/4 enabled in the BIOS? Do you have the latest mobo and voodoo drivers? Have you tried turning Video Hardware Acceleration on/off in theatertek as Sean suggested?

    Just need a bit of background info needed if you want to get your hands dirty sorting this but tbh the 5500 is looking like it could be a problem and if you can spare the cash you could get a new mobo/cpu/memory bundle for about £100 to go with the 9600.
     
  30. cyberheater

    cyberheater
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    Appologies... rule 9 noted.
     

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