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£6000 DLP - which one

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Aydon, May 9, 2003.

  1. Aydon

    Aydon
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    I know this is VERY subjective but I'm a bit lost in the plethora of gear at this price point.

    I'm moving soon and will have a dedicated cinema room. Decided to ditch my 36" Widescreen CRT and get a projector. After seeing an LCD and a DLP I have decided that the image quality of DLP is for me. I have got £6000 to spend on one, but am unsure as to which one. It will be going in a 20' long 12' wide room, and partnering a Denon 3803 and B&W 603/LCR60/600 speaker set. DVD is a Sony DVP-s725D (Old but good) along with Sky+ and XBox.

    I have heard good things about the Sim2 machines, but I can;t go to the 300, so it would be the 200DMF. I saw a Yamaha, but the Rainbow effect was terrible. The Infocus Screenplay 7200 gets a nice review as well. Apparently the Sims are a little noisy, but I haven;t been able to demo anything atm. I'd like to narrow it down to 2 or 3 machines at max, otherwise I will just get myself confused again.

    Oh - and it needs to be a 16:9 chip as well.

    Anyone got any thoughts / reccomendations?
     
  2. Fjorko

    Fjorko
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    I think you have to much money ! Give some to me !


    Or buy me a PJ ;)
     
  3. Anders_UK

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    For me there is only one choice...the Projection Design F1!! It is a little beauty, comes in all different flavours and I have done extensive testing on it..it is by far the best single chip DLP I have ever seen..and I have seen a lot!! And yes it does have a native 16:9 chip.

    It has about 104% fixed lens shift and two choices of lenses, zoom or wide angle. Buy it now!
     
  4. LV426

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    Just make 125% sure, before you part with the cash, that neither you, nor anyone else that will be viewing with you, can see the (in)famous rainbow effect that is a feature of single-chip DLPs.

    Although newer/more expensive models attempt address the issue by refreshing the colours more quickly, the effect is still there, just less visible. Not everybody sees rainbows - it depends on your visual acuity.

    If you or any of your other intended audience can see them, they will at best annoy, and at worst cause nausea. I have seen posts here from people who have been impressed by the colour rendition and contrast produced by DLPs, bought one, and then found, later, that the rainbows disturb their viewing. So, it's just a word of warning.

    Before dismissing LCD out of hand, you should at least get a good demonstration of a Sony VW12HT - which is probably about as good as they get, and is actually cheaper than the amount you quote. It is, I understand, significantly better than most in all the usual areas that LCD suffers, including its contrast/black level, and is completely free of any refresh-rate artefacts (like rainbows).
     
  5. Cornelius

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    I'd also recommend the Sharp Z10000 from PJapan for £4500K inclusive.
    Save the money and go on holiday instead! (that's what I did)

    CKA:clap:
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    The Sim range do give excellent picture quality, but some can be noisy.

    Gary
     
  7. Aydon

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    Thanks for the comments.

    I *will* demo all the ones I can shortlist - but I don;t want to go in with a list of 15 and say "Show me them all" - pointless really.

    I think the Sim is going to be the top of my list - the Projection Design F1 is £8,500 - too much for me - the £6k is MAXIMUM sadly.

    I will also look at the Sony LCD if it can match the DLP (Or near as damn it.

    Any more for anymore?

    And Cornelius - the pj is instead of a New Zealand trip ;)
     
  8. Mark Grant

    Mark Grant
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    Hello Aydon,

    Another one to consider is the JVC-SX21

    Link to Projector central

    Not sure of the UK price, or if available yet, but look at the resolution :)


    Mark.
     
  9. alistair

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    If you've set your mind on sim2 then if you know where to look you can pick up a 300+ for the 6k budget you've set yourself.
    Mine's on the way.
     
  10. Aydon

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    The problem is I would like the entire setup installed for me as well - so I'll probably go to a local dealer - it will cost me more money, but in the long run I will probably happier knowing that the Amp, speakers, and most importantly, the projector, have been set up correctly. I am especially worried about the pj, setting the roof mount, going under floorboards, etc.
     
  11. alistair

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    Appreciated. I am buying from a dealer but my location means an install for him is not possible. A bit of back scratching recommendations and I have the best of both worlds. A good price and independent advice from a guy who's not trying to flog gear un-necessarily. My saving is paying for extra gear and the install. When the kit arrives I will be happy to sing his praises.
    Good luck...........I know I can't wait to get myself pj'd up.
     
  12. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    "but in the long run I will probably happier knowing that the Amp, speakers, and most importantly, the projector, have been set up correctly."

    That depends very much on the dealer, and being THX trained and Cedia memebers means nothing.

    I know someone who went to one of these people and they didn't have a clue about arranging a 6.1 set-up or how it worked.

    He went elsewhere in the end, and got it done properly.

    Just be careful you don't get ripped off.

    Gary.
     
  13. Aydon

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    I'm looking at the local AudioExellence and SevenOaks dealers. The AudioExcellence seemed much more knowledgable about pjs, Cinema sound and music in general, but, naturally, they are more expensive. However, as long as the quality of their work and advice is good then I don;t mind paying the extra.
     
  14. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Hmmm, I guess I shouldn't mention names due to liable laws etc.... :)

    Where abouts are you?

    I've sent you a PM anyway...

    Gary.
     
  15. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    While Nigel single handed battles on about LCDs (and we don't always agree!), I think you should take his advice and look at the Sony 12, I think it is what you are after. The 12 is a REALLY GOOD machine that hasn't got the press it deserves and it is well priced, still needs BNCs though. People aren't looming at this baby just because it is LCD and that is the wrong reason.

    The 12 has come on big time from the 11 and is getting close to the modern day 400 / 10. You may well get a specialist scaler in this money as well to improve things further, worth asking about.
     
  16. LV426

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    Thank you Beekeeper. From what Gordon Fraser says (a man whose opinion and expertise I trust) the onboard scaler in the VW12 is comparable to the best external devices. Which, of course, makes life simpler.....
     
  17. cameronl

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    and thought I would tell you about it.

    On the negative first.

    1). It is a little noisy when there is no other sound being played - kind of like a harddrive/graphics card - though you get used to it and won't notice it after a while.

    2). its also not a true 16:9 lens like the Sim2 300 - I get a small amount of white light around a 16:9 image though I dont notice it when watching the movie. This can be controled with having black walls etc...

    3). can be a little dim on a FEW movies - not all though. With proper light control though this shouldn't be a problem. when watching tv or playing computer games/xbox it is bright and doesn't need nearly as much light control.

    4). the price!


    on the positive now.

    1). lovely picture and colors especially when played through my arcam dv88+. This projector really needs a good progressive player. Don't listen to the sales man who tells you that its built in progressive scan is good enough - because it doesn't even compare to an excellant PAL progressive player.....

    2). built in progressive scan ;)

    3). looks great

    4). works very well with my xbox :laugh:

    5). the remote interface cable is fantastic - it allows me to connect all my sources into a box about 10 metres away so that the projector happily hangs from the ceiling with minial cables....

    6). no rainbows.

    7). upgradeabilty with constant software releases, along with excellant service from owl.


    The resolution is neither good nor bad. 800 * 600 doesnt seem like much but it scales to 1600* 1200 (I think of the top of my head) and from where I sit I cant see any pixels.

    Whatever projector you get make sure you get one (like the sim2) that allows you to have a 12v connection so that your screen goes down when the projector goes on. Also, think very carefully about what screen you will partner the projector with.

    Have you looked for a second hand Sim2 300?

    hope this helps.

    CaM
     
  18. Aydon

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    Thanks for all your comments - most helpful. I'm going to dem a DLP and an LCD pj on Sat at sevenoaks, just to see if I can "get away with" having an LCD or whether to go the whole hog and get the DLP. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I have seen both kinds before and the DLP blew me away.

    Once I have decided that I am going to have to find a way of getting the few pjs I want to see demoed for me - I'm not sure if Sevenoaks will be able to get me, say, 3 pjs for me to test against each other.

    But at the same time I don;t want to go to a dealer in, say, horsham, to view the pjs without actualkly buying from them.

    Dilemma time again!
     
  19. LV426

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    Not wanting to keep going on at this, but 'an LCD' doesn't sound all that specific. You really can't judge one specific model (which is probably the best of its type) with a viewing of another (which perhaps isn't). When I suggested you demo a VW12, it was because the VW12 is considered by some/many to be substantially better in all sorts of ways than the 'typical' LCD; possibly the best in its class at present.

    So, go ahead with your session by all means; but if the other device being demo'd isn't a VW12 - you really should try to see one of those before you part with your cash. You may well be surprised.
     
  20. Messiah

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    Aydon

    I would highly recommend that you demo the Toshiba MT8. The most gorgeous picture I have seen on any digital pj and, IMO, comparable with a Sim2 HT300.

    I am trying to justify spending £4.2k onone compared to £3k on an HT1000 or VW12. On paper it wins hands down (native 16:9 panels, DVI, quiet fan, etc) but in reality I just cannot make up my mind (not seen a VW12 though).

    Good luck.
     
  21. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Nigel

    Do you have a VW12? If so, any chance of a chat?

    Thanks.

    Neil
     
  22. LV426

    LV426
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    No. I'm actually a very satisfied VW10 owner, but acknowledge that it suffers in the area of black levels. These have been improved by the addition of a CC filter and associated tweaks.

    However, at the time of its release, a forum colleague (Gordon Fraser - a man whose opinion I trust more than many) looked at the VW12 and, from my recollection, rated it very highly. In particular, its black levels were much improved over the 11, which in turn was an improvement over the 10. And, according to Gordon, the internal scaler was (I think he said) the best internal scaler he'd seen, and came very close to some extremely high-end external devices.

    On that basis, the 12 has to be a goody IMO.
     

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